HERE is where you place any book discsuuion which you wish to begin, Joe. Create a new thread for any title you wish in theis folder and you are almost certain to find someone who will discuss.
Good Luck!

there have been no comments on jan s book. how many of you knew that jack had a writing daughter ? i didn t know till i read a bio of jack. i am interested in relatives of writers,bios,autobios in addition to their work. i have a bio of tenn williams written by his brother,john steinbeck s son s short stories,john cheever s daughter s bio of her dad. john cheever s short stories are great between novel reading as is this years pp for fiction OLIVE KITTERIDGE. i also collect pp of fiction. ..comments

I haven't commented since I haven't read the book. I didn't know Jack had a writing daughter, but I know very little about him, never having read his books either.

I haven't read it either. Are you saying that there are no comments under where the book is listed? That's out of the control of Constant Reader group. Individual groups are separate entities gathered under the Goodreads umbrella.

You can make a comment here if you like. Or you can leave one under the book listing http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23283...

I can find very little on the book -- no synopsis and no cover images. I've not been into Kerouac -- I do own a small book of haiku poems he wrote but haven't actually done more than peruse it briefly. Had no idea his daughter was writing.

It is interesting to contemplate authors children following in their parents' footsteps. I've read a little of both Cheevers, but so long ago that the details are lost in the mist. Then there are cases which are big news such as Stephen King and his son some while back.

This book may just be one which you are not going to find much response on, Joe. Goodreads has many groups of course but unless someone has linked the book in a discussion thread any mention of it will not show up under the book which is unfortunate.

Have you checked for a group that concentrates on Kerouac? That might be something which exists. Click on groups and then type Jack Kerouac into the search box -- any group that is concentrating/titled on him will come up. I've no idea if such a group exists but it's worth a try.

commenters..thank you. it is good to know i am not typing into the ether. jan had a sad life. read of her at wikipedia.

Joe, welcome to Constant Reader.

First I have to say that I never read any of Jan Kerouac’s work. On the Road is one of those books that I have intended to read for ages, but somehow never got around to it. I think it classifies as a “classic” of American Literature by now, and may be an interesting book to nominate for the classic discussion next time that nominations come around. For now, maybe post your impressions of Kerouac books here, there might be people out there that have read it and will come out to discuss it with you.

Whoa, I just read the Wiki entry on her Joe, and that is a rough tale.

I am a huge fan of Jack Kerouac and recommend The Subteraneans and Dharma Bums even before On The Road. There is something really incredible about the setting of these spirits in the 1950s that reminds me of the kind of energy in Fitzgerald but also...so different. The main character is going through changes in both novels and they really build an atmosphere if not always going deep into all of the characters. I highly recommend Dottie and Sherry to think about reading one novel. They read quite quickly.

Candy -- I had just concluded a while ago that with all of us admitting to never reading him -- something was out of kilter -- he's such a cult icon alongside the rest of the beats -- how did so many of us -- especially those who are "of a certain age" manage NOT to pick him up? I agree we should maybe dip into his for the next offical list.

Oh I picked up Jack Kerouac, Dottie. On the Road. Read about half of it, but my interest lagged and I never got around to finishing it.

Ruth, at least you gave it a try -- I just never looked at any of it. I really don't know why that was. I mean, I've always devoured books -- but there are big gaps of this type in the list of what I've read. Things that are talked about and known but just didn't "happen" in my personal reading for whatever reason.

When I first read On the Road, I was caught up in its spirit and energy. Emulating its characters, I wanted to talk all night and hit the road in search of America. I doubt that a rereading would affect me the same way now. You have to be in a certain frame of mind to appreciate the book, and being young also doesn't hurt.

Wonder how it would be encountering it for the first time at age 65? What would be familiar? What would stand out among the many elements which have been talked of ever since the book was written? It could be an interesting experiment, even if it doesn't turn out to be an outstanding reading experience.

Oh, heck, yeah Dottie. It would be an interesting experiment and I'd be curious to hear what you think of it. My experience was similar to Ruth's. I stopped halfway through, too. It wasn't because I disliked the first half; I just stopped caring where the characaters ended up.

Alex, after reading your post I'm curious: Did you? Talk all night and hit the road in search of America?

Ruth wrote: "Oh I picked up Jack Kerouac, Dottie. On the Road. Read about half of it, but my interest lagged and I never got around to finishing it. "

I hated On The Road and never finished it because I was irritated by what I perceived to be sexism and or the weak female characters within the story. Some day I will give it another try - first time around was 20 years ago and I was a young college girl finding her way and independence in the world.

Dottie, you and I have written many e-mails over the years often discussing "gaps" in understanding others or discussions and stuff. Do you know...that last night I was thinking about this and I was really...well quite surprised at not reading Kerouac. I mean I was kind of gobsmacked. And then I had a big realization...this is a much a gap as anything. I think those people who read and love kerouac (and I could list a whole "scene" that goes with it...like Burroughs, Acker, Palahniuk) it is a pretty big and signifigant gap.

It's really well the metaphor I can only think of is like jocks versus rockers. Or preppies versus goths.

And this represents a quite different attitude to living...I might even venture to say down to core moral beliefs.

It's not "good" or "bad" but rather it's more like if a person is a cat person or a dog person.

No wonder there could be gaps in ways of communicating and looking at the world.

It's a pretty big signifier...

And then there are Dog AND Cat people, and there are No Dog No Cat people, and the Cat turned Dog and the Dog thurned Cat people...

I agree with Denise that you should read it, Dottie, even as just an experiment. Well, Denise, I tried, and I may have talked through a night or two, but my talking was usually accompanied by beer or wine, under the influence of which I fall asleep easily. So most of my talking was in my dreams. I did head out from New Jersey to California in a VW Beetle with that search in mind, but a lack of funds precluded much rigorous searching. I probably wouldn't have found it anyway.

Well, Candy, I'll give you Burroughs there as one of the group. And you remember when I began exploring Burroughs -- you about fell off your chair, as I recall, when you saw my post on Queer. I think that was when we got into the discussions via e-mail and on the board about not pigeon-holing others too tightly as to what we think their reading comfort zone might be or even their own personal take on societal matters.

I may well begin some further explorations on Kerouac soon. I haven't read too much of Burroughs actually in the time since the first couple books. I also got into Bruce Chatwin at that point and have read a few more of his than of Burroughs -- Chatwin became the "keeper" for me at that point though as you know -- never say never - I'll likely pick up more Burroughs eventually.

I did a little checking on ages Denise and Molly --I'm wondering how much of the difficulty with OTR arises from the changes which have taken place since that time in feminine freedoms and progress in overall standing of females in society/workplace, etc. The more I think about all of it -- the more interested I am in giving the book a run-up just to see what conclusions I come to after the fact.

I've read Queer, Naked Lunch, and Junky and enjoyed them very much. But I have too many other books waiting in the wings to feel much like giving Kerouac another chance.

"I think every stage of life comes with it's own terrors" Chuck Palahniuk

Dottie "Well, Candy, I'll give you Burroughs there as one of the group. And you remember when I began exploring Burroughs -- you about fell off your chair, as I recall, when you saw my post on Queer. I think that was when we got into the discussions via e-mail and on the board about not pigeon-holing others too tightly as to what we think their reading comfort zone might be or even their own personal take on societal matters. "

Yes, it was about that time for sure. I think obviously forget the dog cat analogy...no need for a metaphor.(Thanks Denise, it was a terrible analogy and didn't serve to open dialogue on the set of writers who tend to be "counter-culture" icons) I would put Kerouac, Vonnegut, Burroughs, Acker, Palahiuk, Ginsberg, Bataille, Kesey, Bratigan, in the area of novelists and thinkers who continue, generation after generation to touch the hearts of people exploring life and how to live...while feeling disillusioned with the status quo of their society.

Maybe it's fair to say that people that not only read these authors but kind of find a voice of how to live via these writers are in a sense part of a cult of thinkers? They are writers who have devoted cult followings. People who embrace these writers narratives tend to have explored each of these writers works and often have a more counterculture style of thinking and or living. These writers have had almost physical influences on peoples lives and thinking. (almost like sacred texts had on socities in the past)

Alex said "You have to be in a certain frame of mind to appreciate the book, and being young also doesn't hurt."

I think Alex you're spot on...except I wouldn't qualify the frame of mind especially with any age. I would say that the books of many of these writers have a resonance, even a transformative paradigm shifting force...if I may sound so pretentious :) to their cult fans. I believe the effect occurs during peoples lives when they are ina n exploratory or questioning phase...which does tend to happen to people when they are growing up or young. BUT I think their are many cases of people having times when they decide to open their minds to different ways of thinking...and invariably...these books suit the "seeking mentality" or soul searching attitude ala a kind of rock and roll style, heh heh.


http://books.google.com/books?id=1cVwRtI...

http://www.amazon.com/American-Countercu...


http://www.playboy.co.uk/life-and-style/...

I double-checked my Burroughs list -- read four books back then actually and have that many more I definitely want to read so have shifted them onto adifferent shelf in preparation. I'm probably off on another of those "obssessive" periods of mine. Ah, books!

Dottie,

About ten years ago I read ON THE ROAD, THE SUBTERRANEANS, and THE DHARMA BUMS. I liked them (three stars worth) but I wasn't blown away. Since I was living in Denver at the time, I enjoyed the descriptions of Denver in the 50's.

Jane

wow,thanks for the great comments on kerouac. yesterday,i bought the hardcover 50th ann edition of ON THE ROAD. i think i have read it two times but i will read it again before i read jan s BABY DRIVER..THE STORY OF MYSELF by jan kerouac. isn t that a great title ?those comments above are great and i will post more comments later when i have more energy. i just finished THE LAST DICKENS by mattew pearl which i enjoyed but it dragged a bit. i think these new books are written to become movies for the action at the end doesn t fit the style of the rest of the book. i shall read carefully all of your kerouac posts. thanks dottie,candy, others..joe

I read On the Road many years ago, & it was a struggle. I only kept on reading (skimming here & there) because some friends (male) were so impressed. The only part I remember liking was when they were in Mexico. The book must have suggested Mexico as a cool place to a lot of people, because when i was there in the late 1980's, people were still complaining about the "Hippies" which they did't like at all & didn't want them in their country.
A Mexican teacher I knew blamed Kerouac & On the road for the Hippie invasion.

i am reading ON THE ROAD for the 3rd time. i must read it every ten years or so. i am on page 150 and really enjoying it. i was no hippie in the 60s. as a matter of fact i was a jr high principal and had to deal with wanna be hippies and discipline them. i can t explain why i enjoy jack so. i read nicosia s great bio of jack which pulled no punches. jack was a bigger drunk than faulkner and or dylan thomas and yet i enjoy his writing. previously in a post i said,jan,his daughter,was a better writer than he after i read TRAINSONG. i have to read it again after i read BABYDRIVER..THE STORY OF MYSELF by jan,what a great title. i thought of reading one chapter in each book and then switching books but i decided against doing that. maybe i will do that while reading ON THE ROAD for the 4th time..comments please..thanks joe

I guess you could try switching off chapter for chapter in two books -- if that is what you are saying -- but I think I'd get dizzy doing that. I got a copy of the 40th anniversary esition of On the Road from the library today and will begin it probably this evening. If the excerpt on the back cover of this book is an example, I can see the appeal of the book. If the book as a whole doesn't come up to this excerpt's level, then I can see folks losing interest. We shall see how it goes. Off on my On the Road adventure!

ON THE ROAD is so wild and so much fun. i can t believe i forget so much. that scene with dean having that swollen thumb and driving from denver to chicago in that taxi like limo is hilarious. capote was wrong saying jack couldn t write. i think capote was jealous. yes, i like truman s work but isn t it a bit too traditional whereas jack was creative,new,orginal.

I think Capote's a wonderful writer, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be snotty. Joe, I keep coming back to this link and I will have to pick up some Jan Kerouac at some point.

Candy, thanks for the link to the counter culture book. It really looks good. I loved seeing the particular excerpt from Trout Fishing in America; it's one of the two images from the book that I've remembered for years.

readers..i have just concluded that jan was a better writer than jack..BABYDRIVER has convinced me. she was raised in the slums of new york,went to grade school there,took a test which score gave her a scholarship to HUNTER COLLEGE HIGH SCHOOL. i think she learned to write by reading her dad s book,books ?,over and over again cause the styles are so similar. read ON THE ROAD, then BABYDRIVER to see the similar styles. i asked goodreads writer alex autin to finish her PARROT FEVER which critics said would have been an important book. one of you may try to do this if alex is busy and one of you have the time. i have read books finished by other writers-robert parker finished an unfinished raymond chandler book,someone finished james jone s WHISTLE. HELP..thanks..joe

I haven't read Babydriver, but I will. Were you suggesting I finish writing Parrot Fever? If so, I think I'll have to check what I'm doing for the next two years.

i just read somewhere that it was self published to help pay her medical bills,but it was only 24 pages long and is now out of print.

I agree with Candy #21. There was a time when a lot of stuff came together & "On the Road" was one of them. You can't go back now & read it the same way people read it then. At that time, it was something new, now it's some thing that has been done unto boredom. The "Hippie" movement was exciting when it was new, but that was 50 years ago. Someone in their teens might read Kerouac for the first time & feel "Wow!!" but we older people have been exposed to so many Kerouac followers that the novelty has worn off. Now, Kerouac appears on school reading lists as an example of his times - which are not these times.

read gerald nicosia s bio of jack MEMORY BABE to start your kerouac journery. this guy nicosia has made a career out of the kerouacs. his website has much information there. jan s mom wrote a book too,NOBODY S WIFE. jan tells of those two sharing a typewriter in 1979 with each of them writing a book. they were quite poor,also fighting for jack s legacy with stella his last wife. jan tells of taking food from dumpsters. she never did have much money. in the end her medical bills took their money.

Any thread that has no posts for some number of days drops off the home page -- only five threads per folder show at any given point on the home page. That's just how goodreads home pages are set up, Joe. To check for threads which seem to disappear on you, just click on "view all" at the uppper right of the correct folder.

I haven't posted because I've been a bit stalled On the Road -- pun intended. I'm trying to finish a library book which I can't renew again right now -- but then On the Road will come back up. Problem is I'll be literally On the Road by then for a wedding we must attend but I promise to return to the thread as soon as I finish the book.

Candy wrote: "Dottie, you and I have written many e-mails over the years often discussing "gaps" in understanding others or discussions and stuff. Do you know...that last night I was thinking about this and I wa..." - whether a person is a cat or a dog person

I can affirm that it is possible to be both!!!!!!

Finished On the Road and glad I finally have read it. Check the review I wrote on it by going to my book page. Now I will get to other connected reading one day, I'm sure, but this book hit some chords in spite of my finding segments annoying or dragging slowly -- not the book so much as the reader, I believe. Yes, the time period shows -- but it is that very fact that gives this work its place on the classics list of our literature, in my opinion. An interesting peek into the past which gives a view of the present also --- again, my opinion. Thanks to Joe, without whose mention of Jan Kerouac's book, I'd likely have gone right on NOT picking up this book.

i guess my MODERN AMERICAN LIT posts have disappeared but that s ok. i am on pg 75 of pat conroy s SOUTH OF BROAD and im loving it. i love pat and have read all of his books twice. critic s be damned..pat s writing is a mix of dickens and thomas wolfe. how s that for a comparison reading fans ? i just finished richard russo s THAT OLD CAPE MAGIC and enjoyed it immensely,also. it is not a serious book like BRIDGE OF SIGH S but he has included between the humorous parts some interesting family studies. pat and richard are similar in that they seem to base their fiction on autobio family stories. dottie..i promised that id read jan s TRAINSONG for a 2nd time so as to compare father and daughter styles and i will yet do that..happy reading..joe

Joe. NO POSTS DISAPPEAR! Just go to the folder you originally posted in. Then click on View All on the right side of the horizontal bar.

I'm looking forward to the new Russo.

Joe -- go to the Constant Reader group page there's a link at the upper right hand corner of THIS page "group home" to click on. That is where all the folders show up -- look at the folder labeled Canstant Reader (this folder) -- at the upper right hand side of the folder is a tiny link "View all" and clicking on it shows a list of all the threads even those which are not recently active -- the Mod American Lit thread will show up in that list and you can click on it and read it and post to it. ONLY the five threads with the most recent posts are shown in the folder without clicking that view all link. No one is tossing out threads -- it is just how the system is set up to keep things cleaner looking and so we don't have to look through a huge list of threads to find those which are active.

i have read many great women writers this year and i will read TRAINSONG again after i finish SOUTH OF BROAD and the PAUL NEWMAN story. women read- bios of virginia woolf,sylvia plath,edna st vincent millay. i read half of ORLANDO awhile back,by va woolf but stopped when i realized it was about a transexual. i have recently purchased a beautiful trade size paperback and may read it again. many times i choose books by their size,shape,color,cover. that s one reason i will never want a kindle.

CR introduced me to Russo and I've loved what i've read and will pick up the new one first chance I have. I'll also go back and catch up on those I've not read -- another keeper author certainly.

Joe, my understanding of Orlando is that it is a fantasy. Orlando lived 400 years (or something like that), part as a man and part as a woman. Nothing to do with being a transexual, but an exploration of being a man and of being a woman.

thanks for the info. i will read it anyway cause i like the nice cover..black and a gold orlando. i admire va woolf and tried to tell girls about how she could inspire them to be writers. but they were high school girls and couldn t care less..sad