Mary wrote: "Aron wrote: "This is probably old news to most of you, but just in case it's not, keeping milk in the back of the bottom shelf will increase its shelf life. The way most refrigerators work, there'..."
Mary: I am in Minneapolis as well. I am curious where you are buying raw milk (I go to Seward and occasionally shop at the Wedge and Eastside). Are you sure it is unpasteurized? It is my understanding that it is illegal to purchase raw milk from a grocery in Minnesota. It is only legal to purchase directly from the farm, and it has to be within state lines. That is why there are numerous underground "drop sites" for raw milk. You are welcome to private message me if you are interested in finding one near you.

@ Mary: So ridiculously wasteful too. Even if raw milk weren't healthy (it is), so what if I want to drink it that way. It's like censorship. Silly.

Aron wrote: "This is probably old news to most of you, but just in case it's not, keeping milk in the back of the bottom shelf will increase its shelf life. The way most refrigerators work, there's different z..."

I grew up in the Madison, WI area and just saw on the news a guy on the capitol square dumping raw milk in protest, because it's actually ILLEGAL in Wisconsin to sell raw milk. I was a little shocked to find that out. I live in Minneapolis, MN and drink raw milk from local farms that I can buy in co-ops. I was raised on raw milk straight from the cows on my family farm, so I was really excited to be able to drink raw milk from a store.

I don't know the whole story about raw milk sale in WI, but i was shocked to hear that being a huge dairy state and all. If anyone else has info, i'd be interested. Hopefully that issue will be brought up to lawmakers.

There's a book out about raw milk http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/it...
I'm in California, and they have a web site up now http://www.californiarawmilk.org/site/
I just found out that raw milk is legal in this state.
I guess the movie Food, Inc is recommended, but I can't bring myself to watch anything where animals are mistreated.
I am definitely going to be buying raw milk now.

To comment on that link Johnida shared (very informative), I've noticed that oftentimes half-gallons of milk are ultra-pasteurized while full gallons are only pasteurized. Ultra-pasteurization involves more extreme temperatures, and most likely does a better job than pasteurization of killing off useful nutrients. So pay attention to the label on the milk, assuming you don't have access to local farms.

This is probably old news to most of you, but just in case it's not, keeping milk in the back of the bottom shelf will increase its shelf life. The way most refrigerators work, there's different zones of temperature. One of the worst (warmest) places is that shelf in the door which is often INTENDED for milk gallons. Go figure.

I can't comment on raw milk other than saying that I'd love to try it. As is, I settle for whole and organic. Anybody know of somewhere to get it in the Madison, WI area? You'd think it wouldn't be too hard being the dairy state and all...I probably just have to look a little harder.

Speaking of buying milk, if you are looking for a good dairy, the Cornucopia institute has a rating of organic dairies across the US and might be a great place to start: http://www.cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/in...

This is a great thread!

Raw milk is illegal to sell in stores in my state, but it is legal to buy from the farm. My raw milk source is from a neighboring state, though, which makes it illegal because it crossed state lines! It's the most convenient for me, though, because my sister works on an organic farm near the dairy and brings the milk when she drops off our CSA share.

I am surprised to hear someone say they thought raw milk spoiled faster; mine always lasts two weeks. I would be circumspect of any food that lasted longer than that unless it was cured or something.

It is really unfortunate that no widespread scientific studies will likely ever be done on the safety of raw milk. The Dairy Council has way too strong a hold on the scientific community's funding.

@Shannon; this is interesting http://www.foodrenegade.com/healthy-milk...

In general, not just regarding milk, it seems to be the best for us humans, if the goods are processed as little as possible. I grew up on a small village-farm with 3-4 cows, 20 chickens and a vegetable garden. The milk I drank every day was raw and it was good. Now I seem to get a tummy ache whenever I eat yogurt or drink milk so I am on almond milk too but have been intrigued to try raw milk to see if I can tolerate it. My husband got some raw milk from our SF Whole Foods the other day and I tasted some on a spoon, out of curiosity, and it tasted really pure and real - just like the milk on our farm. The downside - it's really expensive, 6 USD for a bottle (a liter?) and it did go bad after 3 days. But one of these days I will try it in the morning with my self-made muesli :)
They also have the lactose free kind at Whole Foods but it does not really inspire me that much, sounds like even more processed....

Keep the food natural!!

K wrote: "I have some raw milk coming to me from a friend (nearest raw milk source I could find was 45 minutes away, but this friend has a friend who goes to a dairy weekly for raw milk and is willing to pic..."
Really? Which Almond milk do you get? I try to get the unsweetened kind but have not seen one with extra calcium - -

K wrote: "Anya - sorry to hear about your milk allergy, but it sounds like you are making it work with the almond milk, that's great.

It's funny you would mention nursing; when I was nursing my son, I co..."

That made me laugh. :) I have no problem drinking milk produced by other animals. A friend of mine follows the logic you once did--"Cow milk is for baby cows just as human milk is for baby humans", but I introduced her to goat cheese, and she loves it. Goat milk > cow milk, I guess.

@Johnida, that is a really interesting article. I always buy organic milk, but I'm now considering switching to raw. That shouldn't be too hard; I live in Pennsylvania.

@Johnida thank you for that info. Very interesting. It's so hard to find raw milk anymore. There seem to be efforts to make raw milk illegal. I'm so tired of people trying to limit my options "for my own good". I don't want added vitamins, I want naturally occurring. I don't want synthetics, or hormones, or antibiotics.

I am by no means an expert, but here's what I've learned:

Cows are the result of the agricultural revolution. They are artifically selected to provide milk for humans, and it's quite painful for them if they are not milked. This is even worse for industrialized-ag cows, which are driven to produce more milk than normal, small-farm cows.

We started buying raw milk from the closest farm to our urban neighborhood - still a 45 min drive for us. We also have plans to try and make yogurt and cheese eventually. We've decided the drive and added cost of the raw milk is worth it in terms of our health and that of the local small farm economy.

A word about milk allergies: I've read that people who have problems with gluten are often "cured" by avoiding gluten for a period. The gut fauna recovers, as do your gut lesions, and eventually you can return to eating healthy, unprocessed gluten-containing foods. I believe a lot of people's millk allergies are probably very related to a similar process. Pasteurized milk has been cooked so that the naturally occurring milk proteins are killed. Then, the dairies go back in and add synthetic milk proteins and vitamins. Because these are added synthetics and not part and parcel of the milk, a lot of people have trouble absorbing the nutrients in pasteurized milk. In addition, drinking milk from cows which are feeding on your area's native grasses, flowers and their pollen helps keep you from developing seasonal allergies. You lose this with pasteurized milk.

Finally, related to vitamin absorption: Vitamins A, D and E are fat-soluble, which means you need fat present for the vitamins to bind to it for absorption. This can not be achieved with skim milk.

Good article on buying healthy milk at Food Renegade.

Anya - sorry to hear about your milk allergy, but it sounds like you are making it work with the almond milk, that's great.

It's funny you would mention nursing; when I was nursing my son, I couldn't bring myself to drink milk or go near most milk-related products. Cow milk is for baby cows just as human milk is for baby humans. :)

I got over my queasiness eventually. I suppose it's really no stranger than eating eggs, in its way. Seems like the strangest idea, in retrospect, but I guess when you're hungry, and your kids are hungry, you get inventive...

I was really enjoying raw butter (Whole Foods carries some in the sf bay area), and raw milk as well (which goes bad much faster). From what I read in the New Yorker (not really a scientific source...) was that many people drink it because they can tolerate it when normally they are allergic to cow's milk. However, I found out I am allergic to dairy and eggs, so now almond milk is fine for me--it has as much absorbable calcium as cow milk. I have always though it strange that someone came up with the idea of drinking another animal's milk; and I can't imagine nursing for my entire life, as the cows are forced to do.

I have some raw milk coming to me from a friend (nearest raw milk source I could find was 45 minutes away, but this friend has a friend who goes to a dairy weekly for raw milk and is willing to pick some up for me). I intend to make raw, fresh cheese with it - yogurt cheese and ricotta.

I think that the idea that full fat, whole, raw milk is "better for you" overall is an interesting idea and could possibly have merit (just as the concept of raw honey being more healthy has merit). I have not found any research that really bears this out. This is one of those areas that is unlikely to be studied because no one is going to want to fund it IMO. However it does make sense that consuming milk, or any food, as close to its natural state of being actual "food" as possible, is going to be more beneficial.

When you've processed, for instance, heavy cream SO MUCH that it can no longer make butter... it is no longer exactly the same food.

Personally, I have a hard time believing that if the dairy has sanitary practices, and you have gotten to know them, that raw milk is that much more dangerous than raw eggs (which I consume on a regular basis), or chicken that are fed their dead brethren and then sold in grocery stores (which I also consume).

I take it no one else here is into raw milk, since this thread has been here for more than a year with no replies. :)

I've followed carefully the debate over raw milk of late. Advocates say that pasteurization kills any nutritional benefit you could possibly get from milk. Mainstream scientists say chances of getting a disease like listeria increase if you drink anything unpasteurized.

I drank raw milk for 6 months with no problem (except a little weight gain from the whole milk after a lifetime of drinking skim), but the dairy was a half hour away and gas costs plus time drain was getting to be burdensome. I tried to find a car pool with other locals, but people who are idealistic about food aren't always idealistic about inconvenience (imagine having to MEET someone somewhere and possibly wait a few minutes?). Whatever.

I think the milk -- raw or not -- is as safe as the dairy is clean. That's the ball game right there. Here in Mass., we just had a listeria break out with 2 or 3 dead and it was from PASTEURIZED milk. Go figure.

Second question: some say full fat milk is good fat milk and healthier than skim. I'm trying to find research to bear this out, but I keep running into the raw milk sites that say it has to be as the cow delivered it for all that full fat to work to your advantage.

Thoughts? Experiences? Raw milk, cheese, butter? Anyone?