We read The Chartehouse of Parma for CC one year. I don't remember a thing about it. But here is the discussion: http://web.archive.org/web/2007090204041...

I really like the war parts much better with this reading. I don't know if that is a factor of the translation or of my age. But as I said before, the two parts seem much more integrated than I remember.

I'm sort of amazed so many people want to skip the war bits - granted I am only 400 pages in, but I find the war stuff great - granted no one has ever written as well about dinner parties, but I think the war stuff is on par with the best of them.

I'd be curious if others have ever read Stendhal's The Charterhouse of Parma - that is the only other book I can think of that is war and homefront stuff so well - although all the war is in the beginning mostly in that one.

I went to another reading group today (one that meets in my local area). I Told one of the members that we were reading war and peace. She told me that she read it when she was young and skipped all the war bits.

Arggh! I was hoping hard that the library would produce a copy of the new translation in time for me to dip into it at least a LITTLE prior to the discussion. I read W&P over 10 years ago and never intended to read it again, but the combo of the improved translation & discussion here had me dreaming of at least a PARTIAL re-read. It appears that it is not to be. But I will lurk in the discussion, a bit envious!

Mary Ellen

Fake tattoos are a brilliant idea! Do we have anyone in attendance who has some design capabilities?

I'm fond of fake tattoos. Suited to my committment capacity.

Ruth, I've been wearing non-matching earrings forever it seems but there are times when it just won't do. You'll just have to get your energy up for your return to W and P.

Alas, my copy of W&P somehow got left out of the bag of books I brought up here to the cabin. I wonder how that could have happened.

Ricki, just wear nonmatching earrings when you lose one. That's what I do. It's fun.

Ah, yes, Mexican sunshine for me, too. Although today looks like I'll have some NC sunshine of my own.

I like Daniel Pennac's rights. Great.
As for a pressie from Uncle Steve upon finishing --- I'd prefer the diamonds to the tattoo or extra ear piercing. I've taken to buying 2 pairs of earrings as I always lose one - heaven knows what extra expense an extra piercing would mean. And a tattoo.....no, don't think so. A bit of Mexican sunshine might be nice also.

*GRIN*

I was about to cite Daniel Pennac's The Rights of the Reader. :-)

For everyone's reading pleasure, though, I set it out below:
1. The right to read.
2. The right to skip.
3. The right not to finish a book.
4. The right to read it again.
5. The right to read anything.
6. The right to mistake a book for real life.
7. The right to read anywhere.
8. The right to dip in.
9. The right to read out loud.
10. The right to be quiet and not discuss the book with anyone.

Oh, bizarre, Whitaker! We were posting simultaneously. Please see mine above yours.

You do not have to return to Part Two of the Epilogue to get your present. It is not going to be a diamond though.

So Steve does this mean I'll need to dust off my copy to read Part II of the Epilogue to get a diamond? Hmmm... not sure it's worth it unless it's something the size of the Koor-i-noor. LOL!

I agree with the classification difficulty though and I will be most interested in reading what people make of it and the non-novelistic parts.

Presents for everyone!

I did want to mention before my friend Whitaker shows up in the middle of the night my time that I was by no means criticizing his approach. In fact I believe that right here some days back I advocated skimming parts of the novel rather than giving up on it. That is exactly what I did years ago with Constance Garnett's translation.

Moreover, I am convinced now that the great story of Andrei, Pierre, Natasha, et al.--the novel-like part of the book--is nothing more than a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down, the medicine being Tolstoy's philosophy of history.

How could I, a person who has spent a lifetime taking the sugar and avoiding the medicine, in good conscience criticize someone else for doing the same thing?

We are so on the same page - I would be delighted with Mexican chocolate and/or oregano - am not familiar with mexican coffee, but sounds good . . .

Thats really funny but the heck with diamonds..I'm hoping he remembers to send me some coffee.

He is likely scouring Mexico for them as we speak :)

Beej and Sherry:

I am thinking Steve will be buying us all diamonds when we finish :)

Congratulations, Steve! I am only on page 711 but you inspire me, as usual, to push on. Not that I want a tattoo, or anything like that, but maybe a little itty bitty diamond stud in the nose would work.

An extra ear piercing, hmmmm. I don't have a tattoo. I wonder what it might say.

And you should feel especially encouraged, I think, Al. Instead of ripping off six contemporary novels of moderate length and an utter paucity of content in order to put up big numbers on your virtual bookshelves--summer beach reading, do we call them?--you have undertaken a true literary trek.

I think every Constant Reader who truly reads all of War and Peace should get a tattoo or an ear piercing or something like that to memorialize the accomplishment.

I agree with you. Anna Karenina was like climbing K2 as training in preparation for climbing Everest. Difficult but. . . .

Steve:

As usual, your comments inspire me to continue chugging along. I am really enjoying it, but have not been able to polish off huge stretches at once like I did with Anna K - perhaps it is the difference of winter vs. summer? However, I feel especially encouraged about my pace now that I know I am reading (and I quote here) "an epic work of historical philosophy and metaphysics expounded through the vehicle of an historical chronicle with very novel-like touches"

I have expended a lifetime having sport with things that are purportedly “awe inspiring.” It has been entertaining. These things run the gamut from the clearly ridiculous, like clerical vestments and Super Bowl Halftime Shows, to excesses that inspire profound feelings but something quite other than awe, like Walt Disney World, Mt. Rushmore, and cathedrals. Everyone has a weak flank, however.

If “awe” is an emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by the . . . sublime, then I am in awe of this book.

I found it interesting that many of the complaints voiced in the comments above are obviously complaints that have commonly been voiced since the work appeared. I say “obviously” because Tolstoy himself directly addresses them in the Appendix.

An example is his extensive use of the French language, which he discusses and defends.

The complaint that fascinates me, primarily because of Tolstoy's rejoinder, is Whitaker's concerning the hard labor involved in reading Part Two of the Epilogue. This complaint goes to the very nature of the work.

It is most decidedly not a novel in our western sense of that term. Tolstoy explicitly tells us that in paragraph (I) of the Appendix. He further claims that whatever it is that he did create here, it was not premeditated. I do not know whether to believe him on that score.

In any case I deeply appreciate the spot his publishers were in. They and we have to call it a “novel” even though that is a perfect misrepresentation. Are we going to call it an epic work of historical philosophy and metaphysics expounded through the vehicle of an historical chronicle with very novel-like touches? Who the hell would read it then?

I have finished reading it, but I am not finished with it.

I agree with Ricki, Madey. The more the merrier. I suggest you really try to find the newest translation by Pevear and Volokhonsky. They left in all the French stuff, which is translated in the notes, but a lot of people objected to that. Otherwise, it's a vibrant translation. I'm not even half through yet.

Madey,

It's never too late to start - some of us, me, at least, aren't any way near finishing it and will read and join in the discussion where we can. If this discussion is anything like the one on Anna K, it'll be continuing long past the allotted time, anyway. Enjoy your read.....

Sooo...is it too late to start, do you think? I started reading W&P about a year ago and was surprised to discover that I loved it! Then, I was more surprised to realize I'd been reading an abridged edition - perhaps my confusion stemmed from the fact that it was still over 1,000 pages. I just discovered this thread and I'd really like to start it again, unabridged.

Finished it (kind of), and the main thing I want to know at this stage is whether anyone makes it through the last 50+ pages of the Epilogue. I couldn't (unless you count skimming really really really fast).

I figured you would change your mind. If you think about it when we get to the official discussion, remind me that I have a question about Anatole.

Geoff, I was totally, totally wrong about Anatole.

Enough said, for those who arent to that point in the book.

I view the pre-discussion as sort of a motivational coach for reading stuff I wouldn't normally read - for instance, look at the pre-discussion this group had for "tarzan of the apes" - it really got me juiced for the book, which i had never read and would never have read on my own, and I ended up loving it.

But people, let's remember no spoilers here. Some of us are moving slower with this one . . .

This is just the pre-discussion, Geoff. For people who can't stand not saying anything. That's why we haven't gotten into anything of substance.

Geoff, you will find the official discussion in this same folder, Classics Corner. It will just say War and Peace - Discussion. I'm responsible for starting it, so if you have any trouble, message me.

Steve et al:

I'm fairly new to Goodreads, and I don't know what a "discussion" is, as opposed to what we're doing right now. Will I find that discussion in this same place starting on the 1st? Through some other link?

The recent reading of 'Crime and Punishment' was my first. I was frankly a bit disappointed, for reasons that would probably sound grumpy if I went into them.

And no, I don't think 'romantic' is the wrong word for 'W &P,' or at least for parts of it. But it's also, by turns, satiric, mystical, 'realistic,' et cetera. I think the thing I'm most impressed by in my reading of the book is all the different modes Tolstoy is capable of, and capable of excelling at. As a writer, that's what I'm finding so admirable (and intimidating).

And Beej, I don't like Anatole at all. I'm worried about Natasha. . . .

Only half the story has unfolded for me so far, but I have a huge crush on Anatole Kuragin. He is just SUCH a rogue! He wanders (swaggers?) into whatever page I'm on and my heart does a little thumpity thump. I have a premonition, tho, that he might just become a real jerk. We shall see...

Geoff, did you pick up on the fact that the discussion does not start until August 1? We can do better than this when we actually start to discuss the contents of the book. Please stick with us until then.

I see that you have just finished Crime and Punishment. Was that a reread for you or your first time?

This is so much more romantic a novel than I remember it. Is "romantic" the right word? Not precisely the right word. I shall return later with a better word.

At the half-way point one thinks that one is well acquainted with all the major characters. However, late in the book here has come one more extremely important, extremely vivid new character. It has been a pleasure for me to make his acquaintance again.

Well, I finished reading it. The end disappointed me somewhat. I had put the book down for a few days, and I wonder that I lost some of the continuity when I returned to it. But I am still glad I did it, and enjoyed it immensely overall. I can’t wait for the discussion now.

Ruth, if I can do it, you can too...

Ruth! You can do it! You can, yes you can! Get back up on that horse and whup this book's butt!

I'm flagging.

Geoff, I am on page 535 so we aren't too far apart on where we are in this novel. I am one who is reading all the battle scenes, each little word, even tho I am not in love with them!

So, even if you're late in joining in, you will not be alone.

Welcome, Geoff. The official discussion doesn't start until August 1st so you have plenty of time. We're glad to have you joining us.

I'm about halfway through W&P, and I've just stumbled on this discussion. Don't have anything to add right now except to agree with all of those who have said the book is a page-turner. (I think I avoided it for years out of the mistaken notion that it was difficult to read.) I would also like to defend the Garnett translation, which I'm loving (though doing so without any experience of the other translations).

I am sitting on the fence about reading this one . . . I've had such limited reading time recently. But I don't know - I may have to start blocking out time on my calendar and join in the August discussion.

No grumbling, ladies. No grumbling. Just keep driving on. You are all doing wonderfully.

I'm savouring it too, but my heavens, I'm savouring it ever so slowly....

Me too, Sherry. But, I'm pretty sure this will be my last time reading it so it feels like the last chance.

I'm savoring it, too. In fact, I may still be savoring it three months from now.

I admit to skimming the battle scenes. I don't like getting shot at anyway.

The last time I read this, I think I was in a bit too much of a hurry to finish and I missed a lot. This time, I'm going slow and really savoring it so I'm not skipping anything.

I'm with you, Ruth. For me that would have been enough. Or go ahead and put the French in the footnotes for the people who understand it and would get the jokes when he purposely misuses it or such.

I quit reading the translated French. It didn't seem worth it to me. Even if I miss something, I figure I'll figure out what's going on eventually.

I think I could have understood all that if they'd just settled for putting the French in English, but Italics.