Hello all,

Just to prompt you that this discussion starts on the 1st of August and since it's such a long book it might be wise to start reading it asap.

Good point!

I've started. This is a truly great translation as we thought it might be.

Okay, Ricki. Okay.

I'm half way through from my first atempt, so I feel great about this. I also met a writer at the workshop I just came from who Loves Tolstoy, so maybe I can get him to comment.

you all are so good - I've started the introduction....

I'm on page 50. In fact, I've been on page 50 all week. Yup, I'm 'stuck.' I'll 'unstick' tonight.

The hardest part is keeping everyone straight; I have put a little sticky tab there on the PRINCIPAL CHARACTERS page and that did make it easier to go back and forth in an attempt to keep them all straight.

Steve, remember...you promised to help me get through this.. Remember? I'm holding you to that!

Whew. I am honestly intimidated.

Getting the characters straight is the hardest part. I've got that page bookmarked too. And, then there's the decision about whether you should read all of the footnotes. Personally, I can't resist but it's disruptive. My favorite character thus far is Pierre. I don't remember liking him this much the last time I read it.

Barb, do you see a huge difference in the readability because of the new translation? A friend of mine from the book store is reading this too and he doesn't think the new trnslation makes it any easier to read.

Beej wrote: "I'm on page 50. In fact, I've been on page 50 all week. Yup, I'm 'stuck.' I'll 'unstick' tonight.

The hardest part is keeping everyone straight; I have put a little sticky tab there on the PRINC..."Read it fast and ignore the names. Just get into the story. And for the life of me why Tolstoy think women with little mustaches are cute is beyond me.

I take C S Lewis's read to just go for it because it is a jolly good read, not because it is litrature. I do think you have to be past a certain age or life experiences to really enjoy it. Past all the wide range of emotions and stuff that life throws at you and what you starte thinkinbg is wonderful or praise worthy and what you end up with or back again. Read it at your normal pace and the people sort themselves out.

Yoby, thanks for the advice. Which I am certainly going to take. I had a feeling that might be the case....just roll right into the story.

I caught that reference to cute little mustaches and it struck me as odd. But to each his own, I suppose. Flaubert, after all, had his foot fetish. If Tolstoy liked a little hairy lip on his women, who are we to deny him?

Tolstoy should have met my physics teacher. He'd have loved her.

Hahaha!!! Whitaker, I was taking a bite of key lime pie yogurt just as I read that and inadvertently came close to covering my new pink laptop with it!

physics teacher was a bit hirsute, eh?

( I have to tell you, i think of those little hairy lips and all i can think of is anchovies!)

So we had teeth in AK and there are hairy lips in W and P. Interesting.....

Beej wrote: "Hahaha!!! Whitaker, I was taking a bite of key lime pie yogurt just as I read that and inadvertently came close to covering my new pink laptop with it!

physics teacher was a bit hirsute, eh?"

Yeah. She was a real sweetie, but the upper lip could get a bit distracting for teenage boys.

Regarding your number 7 above, Beej, I shall try to think of some way to help, but. . . . .

I wonder what I had in mind when I promised to help you. Do you have any idea?

I have been stuck on page 417 or thereabouts for some weeks now. I will get that book out and get after it again. Perhaps then I can think of some way to help you.

Having read this twice in those distant pre-CR days, when I didn't even bother to look to see who the translator was, I'm reluctant to take it up again. Still dithering, though.

Yoby wrote: I do think you have to be past a certain age or life experiences to really enjoy it. Past all the wide range of emotions and stuff that life throws at you and what you starte thinkinbg is wonderful or praise worthy and what you end up with or back again.

Thank you. I'll take that as the perfect excuse not to read War and Peace, maybe later.

Well, I got it sitting by the computer desk, but the size of it is so daunting, I have not been brave enough to open it. But I will get to it eventually, I think.

oh Capitu! Opening it is the easy part. Honest.

But seriously, if i can muster through it, so can you.

Steve, you promised me you would encourage me. And I need that. And I think Capitu does too. So get going!

Like Capitu, I have had it near me for a while but have been afraid to open it. A friend loaned me a copy so I don't have the usual library pressure and yet I have been stalling.

But I think this discussion has got me going - off to the introduction - it's a dreary, rainy day here - ideal reading conditions.

Thanks everyone!

Beej, I think the new translation is easier for me to read. The one trick is that they left the original French in and put the translations at the bottom of the page, to give it a more accurate feel.

Yoby is absolutely right though, just go for the story. It's a whopping good one. I'm just checking the characters more this time to get some of the details that I missed the first time through. And, I'll help Steve with the encouragement. I would love to have you, and everyone else who has commented here, in on the discussion.

Barb, Thanks. I ws wondering about that. I know Pevear and Volokhonsky are respected for pretty much following Tolstoy's exact meaning etc, but I had no idea if it made for an easier read.

And I' going to do exactly as Yoby suggested; just go for the story.

I'll take you up on any help you're willing to give me. Thanks.

Oh, there is no question in my mind, Barb, that this translation is a much easier read than was that of Constance Garnett. Much easier.

One thing I will toss out, and there may some who very much disagree with me. This novel includes the history of a war. If one is not really into that sort of thing, I think it perfectly permissible to lightly--very lightly--skim the war stuff. Don't get bogged down in that. Those Russian officers can all blend together on the first go round anyway. The exception would be those war passages wherein Pierre is personally involved. Those are the meat of the book in my opinion.

Let us see what others think of that.

As for you, Beej, just think of it as if it were pickin' cotton. Keep pecking away it even though from the front end, it looks like an enormous, nay, insurmountable job.

Seriously, I am confident that if you can just get deep into it, the story will carry you along then.

Sibyl wrote: "Yoby wrote: I do think you have to be past a certain age or life experiences to really enjoy it. Past all the wide range of emotions and stuff that life throws at you and what you starte thinking ..."

Well, I don't know about that. I distinctly remember reading it for the first time when I was 18, and enjoying it hugely. But I watched the BBC adaptation with Anthony Hopkins playing Pierre around the same time, and that probably helped. Maybe I got more out of it the second time, much later in life. But I don't understand why anyone would find reading it scary or need an excuse not to start! Just start at page 1 and keep going :)

but yes, don't worry about all the characters, just enjoy the story and the atmosphere. Not all the characters introduced early on are vital to the story. The ones that are (Pierre, Natasha and her immediate family, Andre) will seem like old friends by the time you are halfway through.

Veronica, you stole my thunder. I was coming on to say that I read this in my mid-twenties, in conjunction with Masterpiece Theater's production. In fact, we were living in San Francisco at the time, and we joined KQED. The "gift" was a copy of War & Peace (with a picture of Anthony Hopkins on the cover as Pierre). I was able to read it and keep just ahead of the story on TV. It remains one of the most memorable literary experiences of my life. That book had a huge impact on me. I haven't started the new translation yet (I'm in the midst of my son's wedding weekend) but I will definitely be reading it again.

Oh, I'm going to stick with it, all right. There have been two major books I gave up on, one being Moby Dick and the other, The Brothers Karamazov (yes, by the same translators as this one.) It irritated the crap out of me that I didn't finish those two. I am not adding a third book to that list.

I am back at it, Beej. Big sessions with the novel last evening and this morning. You know something? Veronica is right. Very, very soon after you get going, Pierre, Prince Andrei, and Natasha are going to seem like old friends to you. You will not have any problem whatsoever then.

This is very trivial, but I must sound off about this. The cover design on this big paperback is atrocious. I do not have the book with me here. Otherwise, I would give credit to the guy responsible for this truly awful cover design. His name is on the back. The colors suck. There are too many different fonts used on the front. The border is schlock.

Just needed to get that off my chest. Now, on with the novel.

Steve, take a look-see at what I found!:

http://designrelated.com/news/feature_vi...

And about a quarter way down, he talks about this cover.


ok, you're back at it. I am too. I will get through this book...with a little help from my friends. Actually, it's starting to pick up for me.

This it?


Booooooring!

Yep, Ruthie, that's it.

Beej, thank you for that very interesting link. I should have had the sense to search the guy's name myself.

Having read his interview, I certainly better understand what he was aspiring to. He simply missed the target here with his attempt at a "classical route" with this design.

The thing is I very much like his other covers done in the spirit of "a totally modern re-imagining." I really do think he should stick to "totally modern re-imaginings" and leave the "classical route" alone.

On a different subject, I am now right at 500 pages. . . okay, 471 pages. Earlier in the novel Prince Andrei and Pierre have a significant conversation on a ferry. Not appreciating its significance at the time, I did not pay sufficient attention to that conversation. However, I do not have the gumption to go back through 500 pages. . . okay, 471 pages. . . in an attempt to find that passage. Would someone else please give me a page citation when they come upon it?

Steve:

I will be on the lookout for you as I am still in the very early stages of the book, although already I am quite fascinated with Pierre.

Steve,
The answer to you question about the ferry boat conversation is: Volume II Part 2 Chapter 12 page 387. Prince Andre has an epiphany of sorts.
I read this last year and loved it. I had read it 30 years ago after being enthralled by the "Masterpiece Theater" production. At that time I was not so interested in the war or the politics. This time I found that quite fascinating.
I also enjoyed this translation very much.
It is fresher.
My husband is reading it now for the first time and is on page 1119 so he is almost finished. He thinks it is the greatest novel he has ever read. He also feels that it is a novel that can't really be appreciated without a certain amount of life experience.
I agree with this. Sometimes, perhaps at a wedding reception observing the guests, I can imagine Tolstoy's society of that time and understand his sense of people - their place in history as well as in their own lives.
I have not expressed this properly, but War & Peace is a magnificent achievement and I look forward to the discussion. I hope my husband will participate too.
Katy Higgins

Katy, thank you ever so much! I hope that you did not spend an enormous amount of time searching out that episode, but in the event you did, know that your reward certainly awaits you in the afterlife.

I so much agree with every point you make here. As for your wise husband's observation, I think that to be precise, we would have to say that the novel cannot be fully appreciated without some significant life experience. I am with him there. In fact I would say that this is the perfect novel for the reader who has himself or herself been kicked around a little bit by life.

Was not Tolstoy's ability to observe and record individual examples of humanity absolutely incredible?

My husband is also reading W&P, and he hopes to come here and take part in the discussion. This is the first Tolstoy he's ever read, and really understands why he is so highly rated. I haven't really started the reread yet. But now that I'm finally finished with the Pamuk book, I'm giving myself a break and reading a mystery. We have really had some door-stoppers lately, haven't we?

I'm amazed at how interesting I find the sections about battle too, Katy. The last time I read it, I was just trying to get through those to get back to the interaction between the characters. Despite or maybe because of its length, this is a book that needs more than one reading. Katy and Sherry, I really hope your husbands join in on the discussion.

Sherry:

I agree with you completely on the door-stoppers of late! I had to abandon pamuk and even though I have the boyden out of the library I think I NEED to focus full steam ahead on W&P.

but I guess life is all about compromises and choices anyway - and certainly these "problems" fall in the quality camp!

My own personal opinion--and this is only my own personal opinion--is that the Pamuk novel is not worth the trouble. Perhaps I am only rationalizing my own abandonment of it in 2007. If so, then so be it.

This translation of War and Peace is definitely worth the trouble.

I too have been feeling overwhelmed by books – the ones I want to read on my own and the ones I want to read with you guys. But I did start on W&P. I am at about page 150, and enjoying it overall, although I don’t feel as engaged as I did to Anna Karenina at about the same point in it.

It's such a relief to hear that others have needed to take a break - I've been reading other, less demanding, books, too, and spending time gardening.

I am debating about launching into W&P. I read it (another translation, don't remember which) over 10 years ago... But would love to read it with all of you. But, slim chance I'd be finished by 8/1 (if I can even get this translation from the library!)

I also have a sense of door stopper fatigue. AK took me so long...

Mary Ellen

Mary Ellen, I'm sure that we will be talking about this way past August 1st and I'm sure I'll be here to talk about it whenever you finish. I hope to be done by then, but I don't want to rush and I'm on page 279 at the moment. To tantalize you, I'll quote one of my favorite passages as Rostov meets the French on the field of battle:

"Who are they? Why are they running? Can it be they are running to me? Can it be? To kill me? Me, whom everybody loves so? He remembered his mother's love for him, his family's, his friends' and the enemy's intention to kill him seemed impossible. "But maybe even--to kill me!"

The great Tolstoyan simplicity is irresistible.

I've just ordered my copy from my favorite bookseller in Moscow (Idaho, that is). He did have a hardcover, but I'm too cheap for that. I'm finishing up the Boyden book which I would recommend. There is a lot of war in it also, though. I'm sure I won't be finished by the first either.

I am loving this book. Again, but more so. Most huge books give me a feeling of breathlessness. I become overwhelmed by the sheer volume. Maybe because I am reading this on a Kindle, I don't know, but I am have a feeling of pure luxury. I'm enjoying that I have so much more of this absolutely wonderful writing to read. Tolstoy is the supreme example of show, not tell. His characters, by their actions and how they react, are so knowable. I feel embedded in this story.

As a matter of fact, Sherry, I was just explaining to Beej. . . . .

I am half way through the book at page 607. I am about to go to war again, but this has turned into a really romantic page turner. I concede that it is a big, big book, but once you get into the middle of this translation, pressing on is absolutely no problem.

I love these three characters. I really do.

I am having the same feeling, Steve. And, I believe I like the characters more than on my first read. I wonder if this is a result of the translation.

I feel the same way, Barb, and I am absolutely convinced it is attributable to the translation.

I read quite a bit of it this past weekend, and I am now at around page 800. And I am loving it... I agree with Steve that it has became a page turner.

800, Capitu! Wow, I think you may be ahead of all of us, unless Steve has taken off with a burst of speed.