Just got in with Baker and Taylor but I'm also expecting an offer to list with Greenleaf Book Group.

Anyone have experience with each or either -- and what do you think?

Have not had experience with these. You must feel excited to be in this stage with offers.
happy reading, happy summer
Sharon

From my limited experience, Baker and Taylor isn't too great, and not the preferred distributor for libraries and such. Greenleaf... don't know, but being part of Ingram's, they're probably all right. That's (ingrams) where most larger libraries go, when they don't simply order from Amazon. Keep us advised of your experiences. Doesn't Baker and Taylor require an exclusive distribution agreement?

Looks like I'm going with Greenleaf -- unless the numbers don't cook. Got the contract today along with lots of nice words. They like my stuff. Time to get the lawyer on the phone.

Dave wrote: "From my limited experience, Baker and Taylor isn't too great, and not the preferred distributor for libraries and such. Greenleaf... don't know, but being part of Ingram's, they're probably all rig..."
I self published and went with LightningSource.com. Their partners are Amazon, Ingram, Baker and Taylor, NACSCORP and Barnes and Noble.com.
How I Became A Fearless Woman by Pamela Jansen

All I know is what librarians have told me. I didn't say they don't use them, but they don't prefer them, they prefer to go direct to Ingrams for the most part, due to a better selection.

From everything I know Ingrams primarily does retail stores and B&T primarily libraries and schools. Most authors have their books in both of these distribution channels.

-- Robin The Crown Conspiracy | Avempartha | Nyphron Rising (Oct 2009)

I've laerned Greenleaf works closely with both Ingram and Baker and Taylor.

I would have suspected as much ;-)

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Many distributors have relationships with the big distributors, they have to. For small press or self published, there are some that specialize in that.

To Dave, could you name a few, and to Mortimus,(I hope you're resting peacefully :) )would you be willing to share a few details about what Greenleaf is offering to do for you? I looked at their site after your post. It sounds like you have to pay for their services.

Greenleaf has several distribution programs designed to work with independent authors (their term) and small presses. We're in the process of developing a press. What we've learned is either you need 10 books in print to be considered by Ingram or you are picked up by a distributor who basically lists you in a catalog and that's about it leaving the marketing to you.

Greenleaf brings a marketing team and a sales force to their distribution. That's what you pay for. They have relationships with everybody from Barnes and Noble to the Indie bookstores.

As far as we know they have no competition. They also have an award winning design department. We're pleased with the guidance they've given to us to this point. They screen pretty rigorously (they estimate about a 3% acceptance rate). They have a partnership with you and they give you the freedom to walk any time you want -- consequently they need to charge fees upfront in order to be viable -- either that or they buy the rights to your book(s) and essentially become an intellectual property company or a traditional publisher.

bluesky distribution for one. Atlas Books for another, all have pluses and minuses.

Here's the distribution service that Greenleaf offers.

http://www.greenleafbookgroup.com/how_we...

Dave, while I'm sure the companies you identified are fine -- neither of them were at BAE in New York last month. Greenleaf had a very nice display featuring their books at the center of things. I got to spend time with a VP. They also recongnized our book when I mentioned it. Some of them come from very well connected people in the industry.

I had an agent there... I couldn't go myself, though I'd loved to. Still going through his notes on things. Yes, since greenleaf is part of Ingram's they're going to have contacts galore. However, pricing, what they charge for this and that, all enters into it. I've been told greenleaf charges 35 percent, then charges you for the shipping to the sellers too. Anyone know if that's correct? I don't get the whole idea... the booksellers get more than the publishers, the distributors get more than the publishers, and if the author isn't also the publisher, the publishers make more than the author. There's something very wrong with this system.

Dave,

Basically working with Greenleaf in the worse case means the author gets 35% of cover before other expenses. It could be as much as 85%. The author owns the books so direct sales by the author go 100% to the author. 35% is worse case if Greenleaf sells to say, Ingram and then Ingram to Barnes and Noble. Greenleaf can sell directly to consumers and can also work around Ingram (or any other distributor) and distribute directly to bookstores -- it all depends on how the orders come in.

Greenleaf does have some clout. I saw a Greenleaf title hit number one on Amazon this week. It's at #19 now.

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Going with Baker and Taylor after all. Beginning discussions with some other distributors, including: National Book Network & Book Hub, among others. I'll report on how it goes.

After getting the offer from Greenleaf I did my due diligence and I've come to the conclusion that they are best suited for the nonfiction/self-improvement market, esp. for authors with a large well established platforms. (Who couldn't do well with a large platform?)

Please be aware, Baker and Taylor only lists your book. They don't actively sell it, the same can be said for Ingrams and other such wholesalers. Blu Sky, and National Book Network, and other distributors will list you with all the major wholesalers, but also have sales forces to actively sell YOUR book to the chains, mass market, and or specialty stores.

Dave,

Thanks --- yes, I understand that. My small press has a sales guy so we're not depending on Baker and Taylor. I also know that the distributors I mentioned want to work with presses that don't rely on them exclusively for sales. Our little press hopes to have two more books in print next year and continue to build. The first goal was to get into at least one supply chain and work up from there. The Greenleaf model just didn't work for us. Nice folks there -- I've got nothing against them. The next step is to get linked up with a more proactive distributor with a sales force and then from there take the next step -- no silver bullets, no short-cuts. We're in this for the long haul.

Okay, just so you know what you're getting. For the same money, you could use one of the active distributors...they also get your book listed with Baker and Taylor, Ingrams, all the rest. My thinking is why spend the money for somebody to list your book, when you can get active sales and all the same listings for the same or sometimes even less money. One other caveat about Baker and Taylor, they tend to have high return rates and when they return them they just toss them in a box and ship them... what you get back won't be saleable. They're also not quick to pay.

I am currently working with Greenleaf for my novel ITP: Future Hope. I was loking for marketing and distribution and sent them the book which I self published this year. They acepted it, but wanted to redo the cover and some of the interior design. They seem to have an excellent reputation, although they do charge and are a bit expensive. they have had some books on NY Times bestseller list. It seems they started with mostly non'fiction, but now are releasing fiction. I am having them release my book under their imprint, Emerald. the have been very good to work woth so far.ITP Future Hope

What do New York agents and book publishers look for in new writers? Hello, I’m Bill Manville --former Village Voice columnist, an editor for Helen Gurley Brown at Cosmo, author of six books published by major New York houses -- one a Book-of-the-Month – and now a columnist for the New York Daily News. With that experience behind me, I teach a course designed to answer that question. Called, “Writing to Get Published,” there’s a 150 page Student’s Handbook to go with it. Students get it free, but if you write me at this address
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As for the course itself, here is what Michael Korda, Editor in Chief, Simon & Schuster, wrote about my qualifications to teach: “...the work I know best is your novel Goodbye, which I edited. What first attracted me was the dazzling prose; I was equally impressed by plot and characterization. A considerable literary accomplishment but also a Book of the Month choice, bringing an impressive price at paperback auction. What may also interest your students, I’ve heard you in discussion with writers like Joe Heller, Patricia Bosworth, Lois Gould and Gay Talese, and remember thinking more than once, Bill ought to be teaching it too.”
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