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message 2807: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 18, 2017 10:16AM) (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
NASA: Last man on moon, Gene Cernan, has died

The last man to walk on the moon died Monday at age 82 in Houston.


The family of Eugene "Gene" Cernan said he had ongoing health issues, but his cause of death was not immediately known. Cernan, a Navy fighter pilot in October 1963, was one of 14 astronauts that NASA chose for its third astronaut class.

He piloted the Gemini 9 mission alongside command pilot Tom Stafford and became the second American to walk in space — what he later termed a "spacewalk from hell" where his equipment didn't work effectively, he became overheated and he barely got back in the spacecraft, said space historian Roger Launius, associate director of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. Yet that near-death experience didn't dim his desire to go up again, flying on Apollo 10, the dress rehearsal to the first lunar landing.

“Even at the age of 82, Gene was passionate about sharing his desire to see the continued human exploration of space and encouraged our nation’s leaders and young people to not let him remain the last man to walk on the moon,” his family said Monday in a statement that NASA released.

Cernan was one of only two astronauts to fly to the moon on two occasions, the second time as commander of Apollo 17, the last mission to the moon. In total, Cernan spent more than 73 hours on the satellite's surface.

Cernan and crewmate Harrison H. "Jack" Schmitt were on the moon for three days. They completed excursions to nearby craters and the Taurus-Littrow mountains.

"America's challenge of today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow," he said Dec. 14, 1972, as he left the lunar surface. "As we leave the moon and Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and, God willing, we shall return with peace and hope for all mankind."

He traced the initials of his only child — 9-year-old daughter Teresa Dawn "Tracy" Cernan — in the dust on the moon's surface before climbing the ladder of the lunar module for the final time.

“Those steps up that ladder, they were tough to make,” Cernan recalled in a 2007 oral history. “I didn’t want to go up. I wanted to stay a while.”

Two years earlier, NASA had announced that Apollo 17 would be the final mission of the Apollo program. Apollo 18, 19 and 20 had been canceled in favor of the Skylab space station, which launched May 14, 1973, but crashed to earth July 11, 1979, after its orbit began decaying.

Decades later, Cernan testified before Congress to push for a return moon landing. But as the years went by, he realized he wouldn’t live to witness someone follow in his footsteps that are still visible on the moon's surface more than 40 years later.

“Neil (Armstrong, who died in 2012) and I aren’t going to see those next young Americans who walk on the moon. And God help us if they’re not Americans,” Cernan testified before Congress in 2011. “When I leave this planet, I want to know where we are headed as a nation. That’s my big goal.” Armstrong was the first man to set foot on the moon.

Cernan was born in Chicago and had logged more than 5,000 flight hours in the Navy before becoming an astronaut. He retired from the Navy as a captain.

After retiring from the space program in 1976, Cernan worked as an executive vice president of Coral Petroleum Inc. in Houston and later founded Cernan Corp., which provided management and consulting services in the aerospace and energy industries. A documentary about his life, called The Last Man on the Moon, was released in 2016.

Survivors include his wife of 30 years, Jan Nanna Cernan, his daughter, Tracy Cernan Woolie; step-daughters Kelly Nanna Taff and Danielle Nanna Ellis; and nine grandchildren.

“I can always walk on Main Street again, but I can never return to my Valley of Taurus-Littrow, and that cold fact has left me with a yearning restlessness,” he wrote in his 1999 autobiography, also titled The Last Man on the Moon. “It was perhaps the brightest moment of my life, and I can’t go back.”

Source: Contributing: The Associated Press. Follow Florida Today on Twitter: @Florida_Today

Source: USA Today

message 2806: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 18, 2017 10:16AM) (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
How Tweed Gets Made - Island of Harris and Lewis in Scotland - The Outer Hebrides

Video by Nick David and Jack Flynn


This charming documentary for the Harris Tweed Authority, The Big Cloth, explores a unique island industry with a global following. The cloth is woven on the Island of Harris and Lewis in Scotland—it’s also the only cloth to have an act of parliament protecting the industry. The filmmakers Nick David and Jack Flynn capture the complicated and mesmerizing process of weaving tweed, and give us understanding of how the cloth is a vital part of the island’s heritage through the words of weavers themselves.

Harris Tweed From Land to Street by Lara Platman by Lara Platman (no photo)

Where is the Outer Hebrides?

Source: The Atlantic

message 2805: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
C-SPAN's online feed interrupted by Russia Today
by Dylan Byers @CNNMoney

Source: CNN

message 2804: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 12, 2017 07:39AM) (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
Arrival of U.S. troops in Poland sparks Kremlin's ire

Some 3,000 U.S. troops, under a NATO banner, are arriving in Poland and six other Eastern European countries in what a Kremlin spokesman calls a threat to Russia's interest and security.

The deployment, which includes more than 80 main battle tanks and hundreds of armored vehicles, is part of NATO's Operation Atlantic Resolve, which was launched in response to Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014.

The operation, representing the largest U.S. military reinforcement of Europe in decades, calls for a unit rotation every nine months.

Remainder of article:

Source: USA Today

Flashpoints The Emerging Crisis in Europe by George Friedman by George FriedmanGeorge Friedman


New York Times bestselling author and geopolitical forecaster George Friedman delivers a fascinating portrait of modern-day Europe, with special focus on significant political, cultural, and geographical flashpoints where the conflicts of the past are smoldering once again.

For the past five hundred years, Europe has been the nexus of global culture and power. But throughout most of that history, most European countries have also been volatile and unstable—some even ground zero for catastrophic wars. As Friedman explores the continent’s history region by region, he examines the centuries-long struggles for power and territory among the empires of Spain, Britain, Germany, and Russia that have led to present-day crises: economic instability in Greece; breakaway states threatening the status quo in Spain, Belgium, and the United Kingdom; and a rising tide of migrants disrupting social order in many EU countries. Readers will gain a new understanding of the current and historical forces at work—and a new appreciation of how valuable and fragile peace can be.

message 2803: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
Another day:
Source: The Guardian

Yes, Donald Trump is free to dismiss the press. But that spells trouble
by Suzanne Nossel

The president-elect’s shutdown of a CNN journalist calls to mind the way tyrants around the world treat the media. It’s a profoundly alarming signal

message 2802: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 11, 2017 04:55PM) (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
This is not positive news - whether it has validity or not - it is just upsetting and the agencies that be need to get to the bottom of this.
The investigation began according to BBC by Jeb Bush's supporters and other Republican colleagues running for president - that was quite a revelation.

Here is the BBC explanation of what is going on and how this evolved. What this means at this point is anybody's conjecture.

Trump 'compromising' claims: How and why did we get here?
By Paul Wood
BBC News, Washington

This is already too weird. A press conference (first for the president elect) after the election and there is a lawyer, a shouting match, accusations, reports of compromising information by the Russians, oh dear.

Source: BBC

Trump's trainwreck press conference ushers in a clueless presidency
by Richard Wolffe
It’s safe to say that the Trump administration is already in shambles – and it hasn’t even started yet

Source: The Guardian

So that wraps it up and we haven't even gotten to the inauguration.

Any good news:

Rex Tillerson is big oil personified. The damage he can do is immense
by Bill McKibben

Now a fossil fuel executive will run America’s foreign policy, right out in the open. Donald Trump gets credit for a kind of barbaric transparency

Source: The Guardian

And then this:

Rubio: I have 'serious concerns' on Tillerson nomination

Tillerson did handle himself with no fuss nor muss (respectful, calm, steady) - his days as CEO seemed to prepare him well for the hot seat. Not so sure that he is Secretary of State material due to his former Exxon ties and closeness to Russia. However this was quite a day.

Tillerson was extremely well composed and appeared thoughtful in any case and was not ruffled.

Private Empire ExxonMobil and American Power by Steve Coll by Steve CollSteve Coll

message 2801: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
President Obama's Farewell Address in Chicago - January 10th, 2017

Source: Wired

Note: It should also be on the White House site soon

message 2800: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 08, 2017 04:21PM) (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
Iran's former president Rafsanjani dies aged 82

Rafsanjani, founding member of Iran’s 1979 Islamic Revolution and president for two consecutive terms, dies in Tehran

Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, Iran’s greatest political survivor who served as president for two consecutive terms, has died aged 82.

Rafsanjani, a pragmatist ayatollah considered the country’s second most powerful political figure for much of the Islamic Republic’s history, died in hospital in north Tehran on Sunday, according to local news agencies.

He “died today due to heart complications at the Shohadaye Tajrish hospital”, the semi-official Isna news agency reported. State-run television put political differences aside by displaying a black banner on all its official channels and Hossein Marashi, a close relative of the cleric, said he was scheduled to be buried after a funeral procession on Tuesday. Iran has declared three days of national mourning.

Remainder of article:

Source: The Guardian

Iran From Theocracy to the Green Movement by Negin Nabavi by Negin Nabavi (no photo)

message 2799: by Terry (new)

Terry (TerryHReader) | 178 comments Perhaps more private collections need to be inspected. I saw this story about disposition of a bequeathed collection by the son of a Nazi-era dealer.

message 2798: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) I wish they could find more of the art work that was stolen by the Nazis. The Monument Men did a great job but there are still thousands of masterpieces still unaccounted for......either destroyed or still hiding in someone's underground safe. What a shame.

The Monuments Men Allied Heroes, Nazi Thieves, and the Greatest Treasure Hunt in History by Robert M. Edsel by Robert M. EdselRobert M. Edsel

message 2797: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 33455 comments Mod
Very interesting Teri

message 2796: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Nazi “time capsule” from 1934 found, opened in Poland
CBS/AP September 20, 2016, 8:42 AM

A London woman buys a newspaper announcing Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland, on September 1, 1939.

WARSAW, Poland - A city official in northwestern Poland says that Nazi-era newspapers, coins, documents and Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” have been found in a “time capsule” that was buried in 1934 in the foundations of a Nazi training center.

Explorers in Zlocieniec dug for the copper cylinder at the remains of the Ordensburg center after learning it could hold a documentary movie showing celebrations of the town’s 600 years, in 1933. At the time, the city was in Germany and was called Falkenburg.

Sebastian Kuropatnicki, spokesman for Zlocieniec authorities, said Tuesday they were curious to see the movie.

When the container was opened Sept. 13, it held no film but did have the center’s 1934 founding act on parchment, a letter, coins, photos and two copies of Hitler’s book.

Poland has recently been the site of a few Nazi-era discoveries and curiosities.

The hunt for a legendary “Nazi gold train” was finally concluded in the southwestern town of Walbrzych after having stirred up international treasure hunters’ interest for years.

Last year, a Polish explorer claimed he found a massive underground structure in southwestern Poland that, he says, the Nazis built to protect thousands of people.
(Source: CBS News)


The Gold Train The Destruction of the Jews and the Second World War's Most Terrible Robbery by Ronald W. Zweig by Ronald W. Zweig (no photo)

message 2795: by Jill (last edited Sep 01, 2016 02:22AM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) I adored him and can't believe he is gone. Such a whimsical face.

message 2794: by Francie (new)

Francie Grice I'm in tears. Such a loss!

message 2793: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Very sad about this one:

Comic icon Gene Wilder, star of 'Willy Wonka,' dies at 83
Maria Puente, USA TODAY , KREM 3:12 PM. CDT August 29, 2016

Gene Wilder, the rubbery-faced star of Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory and comedy classics from Mel Brooks, has died, according to his agent. He was 83.

David Shapira said in a statement to USA TODAY that Wilder died Monday at his home in Stamford, Conn.

Variety reported his nephew, Jordan Walker-Pearlman, said he died of complications from Alzheimer’s disease.

Wilder was unforgettably funny in such classics as The Producers, Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddles, his frizzy hair enveloping his head like a halo, his voice rising to a shriek when the role called for panic. And his roles usually did.

He was a specialist at playing panicked characters caught up in schemes that only a madman such as Brooks could devise, whether reviving a monster in Young Frankenstein or bilking Broadway in The Producers.

But he also knew how to keep it cool as the boozy sheriff in Blazing Saddles and as the charming candy man in the children's favorite Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

"Gene Wilder, one of the truly great talents of our time is gone. He blessed every film we did together with his special magic. And he blessed my life with his friendship. He will be so missed," Brooks said in a tweet.
(Source: KENS5)


Kiss Me Like a Stranger My Search for Love and Art by Gene Wilder by Gene WilderGene Wilder

message 2792: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) A Brief History of Voyages Through the Northwest Passage
Olivia B. Waxman @OBWax 8:30 AM ET

The Gjoa ship that Roald Amundsen used to sail through and open the Northwest Passage between the Atlantic and the Pacific, arriving in Nome (Alaska) August 30, 1906

A cruise liner will tackle the route for the first time

On Tuesday, the luxury cruise ship Crystal Serenity begins a 32-day voyage carrying more than 1,000 passengers from Anchorage, Alaska, to New York City through the legendary Northwest Passage, which connects the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago. The vessel has been called “the first large-scale cruise ship packed with tourists” to “conquer” the 900-mile sea route that has been notoriously difficult to traverse due to its icy landscape and dangerous weather conditions.

In fact, European explorers spent centuries trying to find the passage in the first place.

James P. Delgado, Director of the Maritime Heritage Program at The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and author of The Quest for the Northwest Passage, says the centuries-long quests started during the mini ice age of the Elizabethan era, in the mid-to-late 15th century, when “the English, desiring to reach the riches of ‘The Orient,’ figured they could find an oceanic shortcut through the Americas and not have to deal with Spanish-controlled waters, particularly in the aftermath the Treaty of Tordesillas,” which divided land discovered by Christopher Columbus between Spain and Portugal.

The list of failed attempts is a long one: Delgado says Martin Frobisher’s 1578 journey was the first major attempt, though the explorer ended up being sidetracked by false gold. Henry Hudson would try in 1610, but end up in an area now known as Hudson Bay, which would later open up that part of the continent to the fur trade. Explorers in the 17th century would mostly “poke and prod” around the Eastern approach until the American revolution and the War of 1812 when Britain ships and minds were diverted from exploration for the purposes of war. After the war ended, explorer John Ross didn’t find the passage, but did find the North Magnetic Pole during his 1829-1833 expedition. Captain Sir John Franklin and two ships carrying at least 128 men set off in 1845, then disappeared.

That disappearance, however, would prove to be a turning point: it “inspired expeditions to find him, and those search expeditions show there’s a passage through,” Delgado says. (In fact, the search continued as recently as Sept. 2014, when Parks Canada discovered one of the two ships, the HMS Erebus.)

Robert McClure’s search expedition for Franklin would spot a passage via ice, but Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen’s ship would be the first to go all the way through by water — East to West — between 1903 and 1906. The Canadian schooner St. Roch would be the first ship to go in both directions in the early 1940s.

By the Cold War, things had changed. The Arctic had become a “strategic frontier,” and the USS Seadragon made the first submerged passage in 1960, during a period when “Soviet and American submarines used it as a highway,” Delgado argues. The 1969 voyage of the Humble Oil-sponsored SS Manhattan tanker would show “new commercial possibilities” by sailing through with icebreakers, along with accommodations so luxurious, TIME said it proved the Northwest Passage “could be tamed in style.”

After the Cold War came an increase in ecological and cultural tourism, Delgado says, adding that “now with global warming, it is not same fearsome passage it was.” One milestone was the summer of 2007, when TIME reported, “for first time in recorded history, the Northwest Passage was ice-free all the way from the Pacific to the Atlantic.” Such conditions make trips like the Crystal Cruise possible and environmentalists worried about the long-term implications.

“Ice-free should bring a sense of horror to all because that means melting of so much ice that sea levels will be much higher,” says Delgado. “You need to be careful what you wish for.”
(Source: Time)


My Life As An Explorer by Roald Amundsen by Roald AmundsenRoald Amundsen

message 2791: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Reagan shooter John Hinckley Jr. released to home stay
Last Updated Jul 27, 2016 10:36 AM EDT

This March 30, 1981, file photo shows John Hinckley Jr. escorted by police in Washington, D.C., following his arrest. AFP/GETTY IMAGES

A federal judge has granted John Hinckley, Jr., the man who shot President Ronald Reagan in 1981, full-time release from St. Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, D.C., where he has been in treatment since the shooting.

Judge Paul L. Friedman delivered the ruling Wednesday, granting Hinckley, now 61 years old, full time convalescent leave to begin no sooner than Aug. 5.

CBS News' Paula Reid reports that St. Elizabeth's Hospital has a constitutional obligation to transition patients to outpatient care when they are ready. This case is not about the merits of whether an individual should be able to shoot four people, including a sitting U.S. president, and then be able to spend the last third of his life a free man. The hospital believes he is ready for this next step to independent living and is required by law to advocate for his release.

Doctors responsible for treating Hinckley urged last year to grant him a form of permanent leave from the psychiatric facility.

The last hearing in this case was more than a year ago and the government pushed for strict conditions for his release as he goes to live with his 90-year-old mother in Williamsburg, Virginia. The court has ordered him not to speak to the media - a consistent condition of his release even on short-term trips to visit his mom.

He's already been spending 17 days per month at his mother's home since federal judge Paul Friedman granted him partial leave from the hospital in 2013.

CBS News' Reid reports the conditions of Hinckley's release are incredibly detailed and strict, which is a big win for the U.S. government. While the requirements focus mostly on continued mental health treatment, Hinckley's lawyer had been arguing for minimal conditions to make it less likely he will be found in non-compliance.

Some of the conditions include:

He must carry a GPS enabled phone whenever he is away from his mother's home, but no tracking devices need to be installed in his cars. He must notify his treatment team before going to any private residences.
He must travel to D.C. once a month for mental health treatment. His must provide detailed information about his travel to D.C. including his specific route and time of departure, but he can travel by himself. If he is delayed by more than 30 minutes, he needs to notify his treatment team.
He must have weekly phone calls with his health care professionals as well as individual and group therapy in Williamsburg. He also does monthly music therapy sessions. He has expressed an interest in recording an album.
He is expected to find a volunteer position or a job which must be approved by his mental health team.
He cannot speak with media. Any media contact by him or his family will constitute a violation of his release.
No drugs, no weapons.
No contact with the family members of his victims, which include the Reagan family, Brady family, Thomas Delahanty or Timothy McCarthy.
He cannot travel to areas where current or former presidents, Congress or senior executives or "United States Secret Service protectees" are found.
He can use the internet but cannot Google himself, research weapons, porn, or his victims.
He may not set-up any social media accounts without unanimous permission from his treatment team.
He must live with his mother in Williamsburg for the first-year of his full-time release and after that, following an assessment by his team, he may reside alone or with roommates within a 30 mile radius of Williamsburg.
In addition to these conditions, the judge also issued a 103-page opinion

On March 30, 1981, Hinckley opened fire outside a Washington, D.C. hotel as then-President Reagan was exiting the building after a speech. One of the bullets punctured the president's lung and barely missed his heart. Another left then-White House press secretary James Brady paralyzed from the waist down.

After Brady died in 2014, the coroner ruled his death a homicide, blaming it on injuries he sustained during the shooting. No additional charges were pursued against Hinckley.

In a letter the would-be assassin sent before the shooting, Hinckley confessed his bizarre motive to Jodie Foster, whom he'd been stalking for months.

"The reason I'm going ahead with this attempt now is because I cannot wait any longer to impress you," he wrote. "This letter is being written only an hour before I leave for the Hilton Hotel. Jodie, I'm asking you to please look into your heart and at least give the chance, with this historical deed, to gain your love and respect."

Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

His assassination attempt - and the outcome of his trial - sparked a visceral sense of outrage among the American public.

"There was a lot of shock, there was anger," recalled Julian Zelizer, a presidential historian at Princeton University, to CBS News' Jake Miller in 2015. "Reagan himself talked about how the law was too easy on criminals and this played right into that. There were many people who were skeptical that insanity was a legitimate defense after an assassination attempt on the American president. ... I think the popular assumption is if you try to assassinate the president - and actually shoot the president - you're gonna be in jail for life."

The progression of Hinckley's case, though, has been roughly comparable to the experience of others who have committed similar -- but less infamous -- acts.

"In terms of the management of insanity acquittees, generally, it is common to have this very carefully titrated doses of liberty approach, with gradual doses of freedom and a fairly tight monitoring system," explained University of Virginia law professor Richard Bonnie, who specializes in mental health and criminal law. "That is the model."

Hinckley has enjoyed some degree of freedom and socializing since he started his 17-day stays in Williamsburg, where he's been spotted at book stores and movie theaters. When his leave was last expanded in 2013, the judge issued a 29-point order that laid out the terms of his partial release. It specified when he was allowed to leave his mother's home for a drive or a walk, it urged him to take music therapy classes and volunteer at a local hospital, and it required him to check in regularly with his doctors and take his medication.
(Source: CBS News)

A Case Study in the Insanity Defense The Trial of John W. Hinckley, JR. by Peter W. Low by Peter W. Low (no photo)
On Being Mad or Merely Angry John W. Hinckley, Jr., and Other Dangerous People by James W. Clarke by James W. Clarke (no photo)

message 2790: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
It's getting very emotional. Not just Farage, Johnson and the other loudmouths, even members of the European parliament otherwise known to be more rational ...
It almost makes me think of divorce disputes, court and all...

message 2789: by Samanta , Assisting Mod (T) - Croatia - Art/Arch/Cult/Med Hist (new)

Samanta   (Almacubana) | 2057 comments Mod
André wrote: "Jill wrote: "England is just not having a good month..."

What the EU is doing now, pushing the Brits with the process is just adding to the mess I think.
Who knows, maybe the Brits will change th..."

It's like they really want to get rid of UK. Interesting!

message 2788: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "England is just not having a good month..."

What the EU is doing now, pushing the Brits with the process is just adding to the mess I think.
Who knows, maybe the Brits will change their mind or want to try and find another way nobody's yet thought of.
Rushing things in this precarious situation is counterproductive and also so very non-EU : when do they ever rush anything?

message 2787: by Jill (last edited Jun 27, 2016 07:16PM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) England is just not having a good month. Their football team just lost to Iceland!!!!!! in the UEFA Europa 2016 quarterfinals. There are more people in the city of Liverpool than in the whole country of Iceland. Football fans are totally shocked and Iceland is wildly celebrating. One of the biggest upsets in all sports history. Iceland now has millions of fans here in the US rooting for them as the underdogs.

message 2786: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "Thanks for your thoughts, André. It helps to explain the finer points of this situation which we don't get in the US."

Jill, as you know it is a very complex matter which has grown over years, decades even. I just scribbled a few notes on things that came to mind, first thoughts on what might be behind it.

It will be interesting to read the different nations' more serious press writings (based on in depth reporting) pointing out things from the various perspectives. Sadly because many write in different languages not everybody will be able to understand.

I seriously hope that this referendum is (and will be seen/recognized as) a wake up call and shakes things up, both in the UK and on the mainland/the rest.

Maybe, if folks are willing, they will find a compromise and with that a way out, leading to an even better future - because as this has shown, going on and doing things like before will not work.

message 2785: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) Thanks for your thoughts, André. It helps to explain the finer points of this situation which we don't get in the US.

message 2784: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Jun 25, 2016 12:28PM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
I think that the other EU membership states often do not understand UK's history - or that of any other state but their own.

I'm not talking about the colonies although that of course is also part of the problem. Then again, look at the French who are trying hard to make up for past mistakes and are dealing with a similar problem.
These countries have been trying very hard - and often failing - to deal with accepting and sometimes integrating immigrants, refugees whatever. But Germany and other countries don't (want to) see that or take it into account.

What I mean is the huge mass of immigrants that has been pouring into Europe.
Here in Germany the refugees were welcomed with open arms - at first that is. As the numbers grew and people started expressing their fears the Germans started trying to tell other nations to agree to a quoting system based on what Germany was taking in.
But nobody took into account or cared about all the immigrants countries like the UK, France had already been taking in over the past decades. Greece and Italy - I'm not even thinking of how long it took the others before they promised to act/help.
The Germans just saw their side of the story and got the shivers when they finally understood that maybe the wave was becoming too large for them to handle. Same goes for the Baltic and Balkan states who refused cooperation and started putting up fences.

But it's not just immigration. Many things went wrong. Farmer protests - especially in France where many small farmers are suffering because of fixed prices, the dealing with Greece, EU members of parliament and their crews getting paid incredible salaries (with quite a few doing nothing half of the time).

On the other hand you have the countries trying to manipulate the funds they receive, use them for their own purposes.
One incredible example: Although the EU does not support bullfighting, funds paid to Spanish farmers raising bulls for the arenas, indirectly do support the cruel "culture".
Another example: EU Commissoner for Digital Economy and Society is a German called Günther Oettinger, who never was a successful politician in his own country, barely speaks English and most often blabbers nothing but truisms. His salary? You don't want to know.

Many people simply lost trust in the idea that the EU is for and with them. They see it as a bully, an office with nerds deciding over their fate. Add loudmouths like Farage and B. Johnson but also Le Pen and Geert Wilders and you get a big mess.
Add the internet doodles shouting whatever they think is right and all their fans... ouch.
Which is where we are.

If Jean Claude Juncker and the others manage to calm down the citizens, take away their fears by listening to them and (re-)connecting with them, then I see a real chance for this thing to get back onto the right track.
The German foreign minister Frank Walter Steinmeier who is a good man - one of the very few here able to think globally - just met with his colleagues from the 6 founding nations to talk things through - the Baltic states instantly protested why they weren't invited...

If the bureaucrats lock themselves up and keep on doing as before, then we might get into real trouble. Far worse than any refugee flooding.

message 2783: by Jill (last edited Jun 25, 2016 11:56AM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) Well, we knew it was coming:

Scotland Will Vote Again to Leave the UK

Scotland's First Prime Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, announced Saturday morning that she plans to take immediate steps to ensure that the country can remain a part of the European Union.

While England and Wales voted narrowly to leave the EU in Thursday's contentious Brexit referendum, Scotland voted emphatically, 62 to 38%, to remain. On Saturday, Sturgeon said that the vote to leave is one that she "deeply regret[s]."

"[Scotland] voted to protect our place in the world's biggest single market - and the jobs and investment that depend on it. We voted to safeguard our freedom to travel, live, work and study in other European countries," she said. "Unfortunately, of course, yesterday's result in Scotland was not echoed across the whole of the United Kingdom."

In light of the divergence of opinion between Scotland and England, Sturgeon said that the country's government will begin immediately considering a second referendum for independence from the U.K.

The country participated in a nationwide vote to the same effect in 2014, during which Scotland overwhelmingly voted "No" to independence.

The Brexit decision, however, marks a "material change in circumstances" that might have influenced the outcome of that 2014 vote, had Scotland known that the decision to part ways with the EU was imminent.

Still, there are those who oppose independence for Scotland.

According to the Independent, Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, has counseled against what she says would be a decision to "wipe away the two million votes that we cast less than two years ago" to remain a part of the U.K.

"We do not address the challenges of leaving the European Union by leaving our own Union of nations, our biggest market and our closest friends," she said.

(Source: Reuters)

message 2782: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) Thanks, dear André is good to hear from someone who is living in the middle of the turmoil this is causing. Here in the US, we aren't getting a lot of solid information and as you say, journalists love to throw more wood on the publicity bonfire.

I realize that Britain has been dealing with immigration questions longer than many but don't you think this had something to do with their decision. Or does the US media need that issue as a talking point since the US is beating immigration to death regarding their southern border?

message 2781: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Jun 25, 2016 05:44AM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "I think the immigration/refugee situation..."

Jill, I think the 3 biggest problems are
- a general tendency to populism/loudmouths (the world over)
- many Brussels' bureaucrats not taking into account the countries' different perspectives (the UK has been dealing with immigration for much longer than f.e. Germany)
- the small recently joined countries while receiving a lot of financial support being granted too much power.

The UK always brought in a fresh voice, fighting for open markets and a Europe not too restricted by "let's all be one loving family" talk. Maybe bureaucrats forget that families fight :-)

As to the Brexit, it will take a little time for things to calm down. I hope the different nations (including the UK) manage to push down their loudmouths and populists but with the internet boiling over with folks howling their "truths" and many "journalists" forgetting about in depth journalism and thus adding to the fire, that might still take a little while.

Panic and fear have never helped anybody and it won't be doing much good here either. Let's see what England's youth will have to say over the coming weeks. After all it's them who will have to be paying for this.

message 2780: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) Dimitri.............The Brexit is going to change the whole Scottish perspective on independence since they were adamant to stay with the EU. Those who voted "no" in the Scottish secession referendum last year may well swing the other way in order to prop up the EU. I have a bad feeling that the Union's future is shaky at best and Europe will be in another turmoil if the EU fails.

I think the immigration/refugee situation was a major cause of Britain's withdrawal although it will be denied publicly......or it may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd be interested in hearing some of our British members thoughts on Brexit.

message 2779: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri | 299 comments Jill wrote: "I think it may change the look of Britain forever. If you noted in my above post, Scotland, which has already voted once to secede from Britain, voted for staying with the EU. This will now cause t..."

Can't say I'm gloating over the prospect of Scottish Indepence, we'll have our own share if drawbacks from this Brexit, having lost our biggest pillar after Germany. How will this affect the future of the Union ? The economy of Brussels is more or less built on it being the capital. Is a Brexit in line with its political traditions of having only interests, not alliances, on the continent, or is it just against refugees & immigration (with an Irish & a black guy voting "leave", ironically) ?

This'll be pretty akward for the centennial Somme ceremonies at Thiepval. As an anglophile world war buff this is really saddening.

message 2778: by Teri (last edited Jun 24, 2016 02:40PM) (new)

Teri (teriboop) André wrote: "Teri wrote: "That is absolutely fascinating to me!..."

Thank you, Teri. Done and posted. But strictly spoken most photographs show objects from the Roman age. The coins f.e. clearly show the portr..."

Unfortunately that's the only folder under Archaeology right now. I know that's about 180 years or so after European Iron Age....(if my math is right). I'll encourage Bentley to add some more folders there.

message 2777: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Jun 24, 2016 02:06PM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Teri wrote: "That is absolutely fascinating to me!..."

Thank you, Teri. Done and posted. But strictly spoken most photographs show objects from the Roman age. The coins f.e. clearly show the portrait of Vespasianus.

message 2776: by Teri (last edited Jun 24, 2016 12:42PM) (new)

Teri (teriboop) André wrote: "In Pompeii a team of Italian and French archeologists have found the remains of 4 youngsters who apparently tried hiding or running from the Vesuvius ash cloud. The store where they were found had ..."

That is absolutely fascinating to me! Thanks for posting. Those coins are so well intact and the vases too.

You might want to post this in our Archaelogy | Iron Age folder:

message 2775: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Jun 24, 2016 12:30PM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
In Pompeii a team of Italian and French archeologists have found the remains of 4 youngsters who apparently tried hiding or running from the Vesuvius ash cloud. The store where they were found had an oven which leads the archeologists to believe it might have been a bronze foundry.
Nearby the team also found a tomb from around the 4th century BC holding a grown man's skeleton and pots filled with grave goods.

Here a link to the the Italian site with photographs:

message 2774: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) Now the fall-out of Brexit begins!!

message 2773: by Teri (last edited Jun 24, 2016 10:07AM) (new)

Teri (teriboop) David Cameron resigns: Timeline of Prime Minister's political career
The Prime Minister announced his intention to resign following the result of the EU referendum
Will Worley @willrworley 2 hours ago

Mr Cameron said he would resign in three months AFP

David Cameron has announced his intention to resign as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, following the country’s historic decision to leave the European Union.

Mr Cameron led the Conservatives to their first parliamentary majority since 1992. He portrayed himself as a "compassionate conservative" and was lauded for rebranding the Tories as a "one nation" conservative party and away from the divisive rule of Margaret Thatcher.

However, he will now be remembered as the leader who enabled his country’s fateful departure from the EU.

The following is a timeline of his career in politics:

1988 – 2000: Mr Cameron began his political career in the Conservative research department in the eighties and took up a succession of special adviser posts. He left politics for communications in 1994, working on the board of management at Carlton.

2000: Mr Cameron was selected as a potential Conservative parliamentary candidate for the Witney constituency in Oxfordshire.

2001: Mr Cameron won the Witney seat for the Conservative party, where he served on the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee until 2003.

2005: Following another Labour general election victory in May, Mr Cameron was elected as leader of the Conservative party in December, replacing Michael Howard. He won with a mandate to modernise the Conservative party, which many perceived as tired and out of touch.

At the time, he said he was "fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster" and wanted to make people "feel good about being Conservatives again".

2010: The general election of this year saw the Conservative party form a coalition government with the Liberal Democrats, led by Nick Clegg. David Cameron, aged just 43, became the youngest Prime Minister since 1812. A coalition had not governed the UK since the end of the Second World War.

In his first speech, he said: “I came into politics because I love this country, I think its best days still lie ahead and I believe deeply in public service, and I think the service our country needs right now is to face up to our really big challenges, to confront our problems, to take difficult decisions, to lead people through those difficult decisions so that together we can reach better times ahead.”

The government embarked on a programme of economic austerity, blaming overspending by the previous Labour government for the economic deficit the UK suffered. Around £100 billion of cuts were made to government spending between 2010 and 2014.

2010: The government announced higher tuition fees for higher education in England and Wales. Student protests organised in response descended in to violence.

2011: Riots erupted across the UK after the police shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. Mr Cameron vowed to fix a “broken society” and described elements of it as “frankly sick”.

2011: Mr Cameron strongly backed a British intervention in Libya, despite advice to the contrary by many military chiefs. He said of their criticism: “I tell you what, you do the fighting and I'll do the talking.”

2013: Legislation to allow same-sex marriage is marriage in the UK is passed. Mr Cameron has often looked back at this as a career highlight.

2014: People in Scotland voted in a referendum to stay in the United Kingdom. Mr Cameron had campaigned for this outcome and welcomed the decision. “It would have broken my heart to see our United Kingdom come to an end,” he said after the result.

2015: David Cameron’s Conservatives win the general election with a majority. One of the party’s manifesto promises was a referendum on Britain’s EU membership.

2015: The British parliament voted in favour of bombing extremist group Isis in Syria. Mr Cameron was strongly in favour of the move and had also repeatedly called for Syrian ruler Bashar al-Assad to step down.

2015: An anecdote from an unauthorised biography of Mr Cameron, Call Me Dave, alleges that Mr Cameron inserted a "private part of his anatomy" into a pig’s head, leading to widespread ridicule.

2016: Documents leaked from Panama based law firm Mossack Fonseca, known as the Panama Papers, show Mr Cameron profited from an offshore trust belonging to his father. The incident was highly embarrassing for him, as he had spoken on numerous occasions against tax evasion and avoidance.

2016: Following a bitter campaign, the UK voted to leave the European Union. Mr Cameron announced his intention to resign outside 10 Downing Street.
(Source: Independent)

Call Me Dave The Unauthorised Biography of David Cameron by Michael Ashcroft by Michael Ashcroft (no photo)
David Cameron A Class Act by Nigel Cawthorne by Nigel CawthorneNigel Cawthorne

message 2772: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) I think it may change the look of Britain forever. If you noted in my above post, Scotland, which has already voted once to secede from Britain, voted for staying with the EU. This will now cause that issue to raise its head once more and this time Scotland may succeed.

As far a financial ramifications, I think that is probably something that cannot be predicted at this will be a "wait and see" scenario. I don't think it bodes well since the Euro fell off dramatically today. Lots of major changes coming I think.

message 2771: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) I'm glad you posted that Jill. I was going to look up the vote in the morning. What are your thoughts on this? Will it help the British economy among other things?

message 2770: by Jill (new)


23 June, 2016: Britain has voted to leave the European Union, results from Thursday's landmark referendum showed, an outcome that sets the country on an uncertain path and deals the largest setback to European efforts to forge greater unity since World War Two.

World financial markets dived as nearly complete results showed a 51.7/48.3 percent split for leaving. Sterling suffered its biggest one-day fall of more than 9 percent against the dollar, hitting its lowest level in three decades on market fears the decision will hit investment in the world's 5th largest economy.

The vote will initiate at least two years of messy divorce proceedings with the EU, raise questions over London's role as a global financial capital and put huge pressure on Prime Minister David Cameron to resign, though he pledged during the campaign to stay on whatever the result.

The euro slumped around 3.5 percent against the dollar on concerns a ‘Brexit’ vote will do wider economic and political damage to what will become a 27-member union. Investors poured into safe haven assets including gold, and the yen surged.

There was no immediate comment from the Bank of England. In an early mark of international concern, Japan's top currency diplomat Masatsugu Asakawa said he would consult with Finance Minister Taro Aso on how to respond to the market moves, describing the foreign exchange moves as very rough.

Yet there was euphoria among Britain's eurosceptic forces, claiming a victory they styled as a protest against British political leaders, big business and foreign leaders including Barack Obama who had urged Britain to stay in the bloc.

"Dare to dream that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom," said Nigel Farage, leader of the eurosceptic UK Independence Party.

"If the predictions are right, this will be a victory for real people, a victory for ordinary people, a victory for decent people...Let June 23 go down in our history as our independence day."

He called the EU a "doomed project".

By 5.20 am (0420 GMT), nearly 90 percent of the vote had been counted, making Leave's lead virtually impossible to reverse.

Asked if Cameron, who called the referendum in 2013 and campaigned to stay in the bloc, should resign if Britain voted for Brexit, Farage said: "Immediately."

The United Kingdom now faces a threat to its survival, as Scotland voted 62 percent in favor of staying in the EU and is likely to press for a new referendum on whether to become independent after its 2014 vote to stay in the UK.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said Thursday's vote "makes clear that the people of Scotland see their future as part of the European Union."

Quitting the EU could cost Britain access to the EU's trade barrier-free single market and mean it must seek new trade accords with countries around the world. President Barack Obama says it would be at the "back of a queue" for a U.S. pact.

(Source: Rueters)

message 2769: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Jill wrote: "You can bet that someone will come up with a theory that King Tut was really an alien and the metal from the dagger was from his intergalactic space ship.!!!!!!! It happens every time."

Oh boy...would not be surprised.

message 2768: by Jill (last edited Jun 02, 2016 03:51PM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) You can bet that someone will come up with a theory that King Tut was really an alien and the metal from the dagger was from his intergalactic space ship.!!!!!!! It happens every time.

message 2767: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) King Tut had a dagger made from metal of ‘extraterrestrial origin’
By Ishaan Tharoor June 2 at 12:00 PM

The mummy of King Tutankhamun displayed in a climate-controlled glass case in his underground tomb in the Valley of the Kings, close to Luxor, in Egypt in 2015. (Khaled Desouki/AFP via Getty Images)

King Tutankhamun, the ancient Egyptian pharaoh, was entombed with a dagger made from metal mined from a meteor, according to a new scientific study.

The iron dagger was discovered within Tutankhamun's sarcophagus, whose famous discovery in Luxor in 1922 prompted a wave of global interest in the history and grandeur of one of the world's oldest civilizations. The young king died at age 19 in the 14th century B.C.

While Bronze Age cultures extensively used copper, bronze, gold and other metals, the advent of iron-smithing hadn't yet happened. The researchers, who published their findings on Tuesday in the journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, used state-of-the-art X-ray fluorescence spectrometry to analyze the composition of the blade.

Their analysis "strongly suggests" that the blade carried materials of "extraterrestrial origin" and "confirms that ancient Egyptians attributed great value to meteoritic iron for the production of precious objects" and had the ability to sculpt metals found in meteorites into sophisticated objects.

"In this context, the high manufacturing quality of Tutankhamun's dagger blade is evidence of early successful iron smithing in the 14th C. BCE," the researchers write.

According to their report, ancient Egyptian descriptions of iron appeared around a century after Tutankhamun's death, referring to the term "iron of the sky."

"Beyond the Mediterranean area, the fall of meteorites was perceived as a divine message in other ancient cultures," the researchers write. "It is generally accepted that other civilizations around the world, including the Inuit people; the ancient civilizations in Tibet, Syria and Mesopotamia; and the prehistoric Hopewell people living in eastern North America from 400 BCE to 400 CE, used meteoritic iron for the production of small tools and ceremonial objects."

For understandable reasons, ancient peoples watched the stars in the heavens — and the objects that seemed to descend from there — with intense curiosity and awe.

“The sky was very important to the ancient Egyptians,” British Egyptologist Joyce Tyldesley told Nature. “Something that falls from the sky is going to be considered as a gift from the gods.”

Metals extracted from space debris were used by myriad cultures across the centuries to create totems of power. Not long ago, the Smithsonian exhibited a 17th-century knife that was once in the possession of the Mughal emperor Jahangir. Recent analysis of the blade found that it, too, was crafted with ore from a meteorite.

In 2006, an Austrian astrochemist discovered that the glass affixed to a jewel also found in Tutankhamun's tomb was probably formed by the heat generated from a meteorite impacting the Earth.

Despite his seeming hoard of otherworldly artifacts, Tutankhamun himself was a small, tragic figure. A study of his remains found him to be rather ugly and disfigured; his myriad ailments and illnesses led to his death at such a young age.
(Source: The Washington Post)

King Tutankhamun The Treasures of the Tomb by Zahi A. Hawass by Zahi A. Hawass (no photo)
The Complete Tutankhamun The King, the Tomb, the Royal Treasure by Nicholas Reeves by Nicholas ReevesNicholas Reeves

message 2766: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) A Long, Complicated Battle Over 9,000-Year-Old Bones Is Finally Over
May 5, 2016 11:47 AM ET

Last week, there was a big development in the long-running, bitter, complicated battle over a 9,000-year-old set of bones known variously as "Kennewick Man" or "The Ancient One," depending on whom you ask.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers confirmed that the ancient bearer of the bones is genetically linked to modern-day Native Americans. Now, under federal law, a group of tribes that has been fighting to rebury him will almost certainly get to do so.

It also means that scientists will probably never get another chance to study him, though ancient human remains from North America are incredibly rare, and forensic technology gets better all the time.

"It's the chafe between science and spirituality," writes Kevin Taylor at Indian Country Today, "between people who say the remains have so much to tell us about the ancient human past that they should remain available for research, versus people who feel a kinship with the ancient bones and say they should be reburied to show proper reverence for the dead."

There's a history to bitter tensions of this sort. Take the recent fight between native Hawaiian protesters and scientists who wanted to erect a telescope on Mauna Kea, a dormant volcano considered sacred by some and "the best location in the world to observe the stars and study the origins of our universe" by others.

None of these clashes exists in a vacuum; they often come on the heels of decades, if not centuries, of genocide and erasure aimed at indigenous peoples and their ways of life. And so an object of scientific interest, be it a bone or a mountain, can come to stand for an entire civilization.

Some say scientists need to rethink their whole approach to culturally sensitive research. Others say the unfettered pursuit of knowledge ought to trump belief; if the faithful always got their way, we'd still think the Earth was flat. Who gets to decide? The twists and turns in the story of Kennewick Man — which has been told before, and well — suggest there's no easy answer, of course, but certainly provide an incredible case study for the future of this debate.

A forensic mystery, or a moot point?

The fight has been raging for 20 years, ever since a couple of college kids stumbled — literally — across a human skull while wading in a river in Washington state. They thought they'd found a murder victim, and flagged down a nearby cop, who called in a local expert. Instead, they had discovered some of the oldest, most complete human remains ever dug up in North America.

Archaeologists dubbed the skeleton Kennewick Man, after the place he was found, and hoped his bones could help settle one of the greatest mysteries in the story of human migration: how did Homo sapiens, originating in Africa, end up in the Americas?

The dominant theory was that humans trekked here on foot around 13,000 years ago, during the Ice Age, when seas were lower and a land bridge temporarily connected Siberia and Alaska. But other evidence suggests humans were already living on this continent well before that particular pathway was possible.

But a group of Native American tribes considered The Ancient One, as they call him, a direct tribal ancestor — and they didn't need science to explain how people ended up here. "From our oral histories, we know that our people have been part of this land since the beginning of time," a leader of the Umatilla tribe wrote in a statement at the time. "We do not believe that our people migrated here from another continent, as the scientists do."

Working together, five tribes demanded that The Ancient One's remains not be poked or prodded in the name of science, and instead be promptly reburied in accordance with tribal custom — and under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. That federal law, passed in 1990, requires certain Native American artifacts and remains to be handed over to culturally affiliated tribes or provable descendants.

"The tribes had good reason to be sensitive," writes Smithsonian Magazine's Douglas Preston. "The early history of museum collecting of Native American remains is replete with horror stories. In the 19th century, anthropologists and collectors looted fresh Native American graves and burial platforms, dug up corpses and even decapitated dead Indians lying on the field of battle and shipped the heads to Washington for study. Until NAGPRA, museums were filled with American Indian remains acquired without regard for the feelings and religious beliefs of native people."

But for these bones to fall under the protection of NAGPRA, there had to be proof of a connection between the remains and the people fighting to reclaim them today. The scientists said no such connection existed. The tribal leaders insisted it did; they could feel it in their bones.

That question ended up spawning an unprecedented legal and ethical battle in which prominent archaeologists and anthropologists would sue the U.S. government for the chance to study the bones. Femur bones would go missing under unexplained circumstances. Bitter arguments would be pitched over the migration patterns and feeding habits of sea lions, the curvature and racial implications of cheekbones, the validity of oral tradition as courtroom evidence.

Eventually, the scientists did get a legally approved (though very brief and highly constricted) look at Kennewick Man, and what they learned is truly amazing. Based on the shape of his skull and other features, they theorized that he or his forebears may have been Asian coastal seafarers. They may have journeyed by boat along the south Alaskan shoreline and ultimately all the way down the Americas, hugging the coast and living off kelp, fish, sea lions and the like.

This is the "coastal migration" theory of the peopling of the Americas, which suggests that a wave, or waves, of people traveled and lived along the Pacific coast long before other travelers chased herds of tasty mastodons and mammoths across a land bridge into Alaska.

They also learned a tremendous amount about what Kennewick Man's life may have been like. Here's more from Preston:

"Kennewick Man spent a lot of time holding something in front of him while forcibly raising and lowering it; the researchers theorize he was hurling a spear downward into the water, as seal hunters do. His leg bones suggest he often waded in shallow rapids, and he had bone growths consistent with 'surfer's ear,' caused by frequent immersion in cold water. His knee joints suggest he often squatted on his heels. ... Many years before Kennewick Man's death, a heavy blow to his chest broke six ribs. Because he used his right hand to throw spears, five broken ribs on his right side never knitted together. This man was one tough dude."

Conflict, or collaboration?

As of last week, it's likely that this tough dude is headed back to the earth. University of Chicago scientists confirmed another study, from last year, showing that Kennewick Man's DNA has genetic similarities to those of modern-day Colville tribal members. Now, members of the Colville tribe and four others say they'll work together to complete the repatriation — or reburial — process, and the government has shown zero interest in standing in their way.

But while scientists may never get another chance to study these remains, even as biomolecular science is "advancing so rapidly that within five to ten years it may be possible to know what diseases Kennewick Man suffered from and what caused his death," writes Preston, the story of Kennewick Man raises all sorts of questions as to how researchers might avoid antagonizing local cultures to begin with — or whether they should have to try.

One of the scientists involved in revealing a genetic connection between Kennewick Man and living Native Americans invited members of the five tribes into the lab, where they put on body suits and entered a "clean room" to pay their respects to The Ancient One. In the wake of Kennewick, scientists have been reflecting on ways to work with indigenous communities when these kinds of conflicts come up:

"Many other researchers are taking a similar approach. [Dennis O'Rourke, a biological anthropologist at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City] says that there is no one-size-fits-all strategy to working with native communities. He finds some of the North American Arctic groups he works with eager to contribute to his research, others are less so; and their opinions shift over time.

" 'We really have to change the top-down approach, where we come to people and say "these are our research questions and you should participate, because — SCIENCE," ' says Jennifer Raff, an anthropological geneticist at the University of Texas at Austin."

Other scientists say there's a real danger in altering scientific methods to accommodate religious belief. Elizabeth Weiss, an anthropologist at San Jose State, outlined impediments to her own work in a 2001 paper on the Kennewick controversy, and argued that regulations like NAGPRA require far too little evidence proving a cultural connection to modern-day native communities. She also suggested that such regulations — which increased around the world in the wake of NAGPRA — can have a chilling effect on scientific research:

"Consider having dedicated a large part of one's life to unearthing the materials that are now being examined. Even casts and other important works — such as videotapes, photos, and excavation records — are in increasing danger of confiscation. Some scientists have expressed fear that their federal grants would be in jeopardy if they objected too openly to current policies. Under such circumstances, most scientists do not even begin 'high-risk' projects. Finds that could threaten Native American origin beliefs are especially likely to be targeted. Defendants could become embroiled for years in expensive lawsuits that neither they nor their institutions can afford ...

"The politics of bone gathering in Africa are notorious ... and one shudders to imagine what might happen if activists could convince modern Africans to claim early human skeletons as their ancestors, so that they too could be reburied."

As this saga draws to a close, perhaps only one thing is certain. Wherever science, ethics and history collide, easy answers don't exist. The distinction between pioneering researcher and grave robber can depend entirely on whom you ask. But there's one more story worth telling here, that of another very old pile of North American bones that got a whisper of the attention that Kennewick Man has gotten, because the raging fight over what to do with them simply never got started. From Nature:

"Just weeks before Kennewick Man's remains were discovered, researchers working in Alaska discovered a 10,000-year-old human skeleton. They notified local tribes and quickly came to an agreement that allowed them to excavate and study the remains and keep the tribes involved in the research. 'You don't really hear so much about the good cases,' says Raff."
Source: NPR

Skull Wars Kennewick Man, Archaeology, and the Battle for Native American Identity by David Hurst Thomas by David Hurst Thomas (no photo)
Their Skeletons Speak Kennewick Man and the Paleoamerican World (Exceptional Social Studies Titles for Intermediate Grades) (Exceptional Social Studies Title for Intermediate Grades) by Sally M. Walker by Sally M. WalkerSally M. Walker

message 2765: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Thanks, Pamela. I need to read through that.

In other news, I'll post more tonight or tomorrow (likely). Harriett Tubman will be replacing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill! Hooray!

message 2764: by Pamela (last edited Apr 20, 2016 01:46PM) (new)

Pamela (Winkpc) | 423 comments The Pulitzer Prize list. There are some interesting books on here. Books and poetry are at the end of the article.

message 2763: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) More to read, more to read. This is a time period I'm pretty weak on in British history. I'm still reading back in the time of the War of the Roses and then later with the Jacobite rising / Bonnie Prince Charlie. Now I have to brush up.

message 2762: by Jill (last edited Apr 16, 2016 06:48AM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (Bucs1960) André good to see you again (or should I say "read you again"!!" That shipwreck raises many questions but it seems reasonable to assume that with the finding of artifacts containing the Stuart coat of arms, that whoever was aboard, they were probably connected to the House of Orange/Stuart ascension to the British throne......and that is an amazing find. If they have dated the ship as from the late 1600s, it becomes even more evident that there is a connection. I don't remember reading that any important personage involved in the Glorious Revolution was lost at sea, so let's suppose that the ship may have been bringing personal items for Queen Mary which had belonged to her father, James II, the deposed Stuart king. Very interesting.

message 2761: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Apr 16, 2016 04:08AM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Teri wrote: "This is absolutely fascinating..."

With the leather book covers showing the Stuart armorial and the barque's heavy weaponry this might have something to do with the "Glorious Revolution" of 1688/89 or personalities more or less involved.
The Dutch Willem III and his wife Mary (a Stuart) became King and Queen of England (William and Mary) so who knows who else might have been traveling back and forth between the two countries during that period.
As you say, Terri, very fascinating.

Here a link with more information on Queen Mary II and the "Dutch Connection":

message 2760: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (last edited Apr 15, 2016 11:29AM) (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
Teri wrote: "Okay, so I know very little about Napoleon, especially this side of him. So I'm going to have to find some good books on him. Recommendations?"

Better ask Aussie Rick. He is extremely well read about Napoleon and that period.

message 2759: by Teri (new)

Teri (teriboop) Okay, so I know very little about Napoleon, especially this side of him. So I'm going to have to find some good books on him. Recommendations?

message 2758: by André, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS - Music (new)

André (AndrH) | 2639 comments Mod
I appreciate the historians who stay open to new "discoveries", facts, finds, whatever, that bit by bit help us to slowly put together the many puzzles that make up history.
Napoleon is one of those figures, depending on whose side the writer is on, the man can be painted in so many different pictures.

Same with Rome. The finds at Harzhorn forced today's Germans to finally accept that Roman legions did not just enter the North, but also when attacked or stopped managed to destroy, chase or hunt down their Germanic enemies.

So often nationalism colors amateurs' "understanding" of history.
Take for instance Arminius, the "ultimate German", the superhuman hero who managed to achieve the impossible, etc.etc.
Kicking out the legend and digging just a little deeper reveals so much more, even with the little we know.
At least he becomes multi layered, a smart human being, who used what Rome taught him and together with his diplomatic skills managed to briefly unite the different tribes to battle their so hated enemy.
That doesn't belittle or diminish him or his actions in any way. It just makes him human.

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