#98 - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackie-k-c...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1320286/

I think I agree with the first comment about the movie on the IMDB. They were very passionate artists, and while Lifetime is on cable, it was shown during primetime. I think the movie was filmed a bit tempered down, as was said in this review. Anyway, it was definitely enough to spark an interest in them.

Hmmm...sounds interesting..I will check it out since I love Georgia O'Keefe's work.

I wish that I had seen this sooner - this is Supreme Court week and C-Span is having special presentations on the Supreme Court all of this week at 9PM. There is a wonderful interview program scheduled this evening :

This is the schedule of what programs are remaining for Saturday, October 10th through Monday, October 12th:

Justices Sotomayor, Breyer, Thomas, & Alito interviews
Saturday, October 10, 9 pm

Join us a Justice Sotomayor talks for the first time on television since becoming the 111th member to join the Supreme Court as she reflects on her first impressions of the job and the acclimation process. Justice Breyer takes us behind the scenes on a private tour of his Chambers as he describes how the Court works. And Justice Alito appears in a rare tv interview to talk about the role of the Court, and the job of transferring the duties of Junior Justice to Justice Sotmayor.

Justices Roberts & Stevens interviews
Sunday, October 11, 9 pm

Chief Justice Roberts talks about the Supreme Court building, the role of the Court in Society, the role of the Chief Justice, as well how the process of deciding cases happens at our nation’s highest Court. In the second part of the program, the Court’s most senior Associate Justice – John Paul Stevens, takes us beyond the Courtroom and into his Chambers for an insider’s look at life on the Court and his tenure there.

"The Supreme Court: Home To America's Highest Court"
Monday, October 12, 6 pm & 8pm


Here is a link to the other previous C-Span videos from this week's program honoring Supreme Court week. These are always very well done.

http://supremecourt.c-span.org/TVProgram...

I am currently watching the C-Span Supreme Court presentation: interviews with Sotomayor, Breyer, Thomas, Alito. I am finding it to be terrific. The interviews are very good; I especially liked Breyers explanations. Have not gotten to Alito's interview yet.

Virginia wrote: "#98 - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackie-k-c...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1320286/

I think I agree with the first comment about the movie on the I..."

Well Virginia...I found the movie..and watched it..all I can say was they were most unconventional (the pair of them). Never realized what their story was all about or the circumstances surrounding their relationship. It does explain a lot.

Folks, will be traveling for a few weeks but will be on all that I can.

Bentley wrote: "Folks, will be traveling for a few weeks but will be on all that I can."

Hope it's for a vacation, and not for work. We recently just got back from a week of needed rest in Puerto Rico in the beginning of the month.

btw, I bought tickets for December 1st to see Lincoln as Commander in Chief at the New York Historical Society. I can't wait!

Heading to the airport...international travel...so will be out of pocket for a day...but do not panic. Will be back on soon. Everything is open so please post in my absence. Great Joe...that presentation sounds awesome.

Bentley

Well I am here...England, afterwards headed to Scotland and then France. Was able to get on a couple of times today and am delighted everybody is enjoying the FDR book. It really is easy reading.

Joe wrote: "Bentley wrote: " We recently just got back from a week of needed rest in Puerto ..."

I just got back from there too (Oct 4-9th). Did you go to the Arecibo radio observatory?

Well tomorrow morning I am off to France and the battlefields of Verdun..will keep you posted. After touring a bit will be back in England next week.

James..I am not sure that Joe saw your note..but I have not been to the Arecibo radio observatory.

Folks, not sure of internet access while away.

In Verdun....today and tomorrow; fascinating; will catch up on details when I return; limited internet access.

Wow, Bentley. Having never been anywhere foreign other than barely over the border into Canada and barely into Mexico, I hope to someday make it across oceans. Any chance you'll have pictures to share?

James wrote: "Joe wrote: "I just got back from there too (Oct 4-9th). Did you go to the Arecibo radio observatory?"

James,
Yes we did spend an afternoon visiting Arecibo. It was raining pretty hard that day so most of our visit was spent inside at the exhibits and at the gift shop. It did stop raining for a minute however for us the get pictures of us in front of the telescope. What an amazing piece of work.

Also, the day we got home, we were watching tv and the James Bond movie GoldenEye came on, which filmed it's final scenes at Arecibo.

Elizabeth S wrote: "Wow, Bentley. Having never been anywhere foreign other than barely over the border into Canada and barely into Mexico, I hope to someday make it across oceans. Any chance you'll have pictures to ..."

Elizabeth, I was thinking just that..I have a great map of the World War I battlefields and forts' layout (prepared by the memorial in Verdun). Would love to be able to scan it and post it somewhere for use in the reading of The First World War by Keegan. But there are few options on goodreads for adding it. I am thinking of putting together a web site log (photos) which might be able to be accessed. The various Forts (some of which I actually went through) were fascinating. There were also some excellent museums and films that were especially focused on Verdun and the battlefields, forts, etc. Many of the villages that were obliterated were actually laid out in tribute to the former families (very touching and well done); there was also a fair amount of live footage shown at the museums of the Verdun battles themselves and the moving of troops and equipment from one point to another. I believe I got more of a first hand view of what the First World War must have been like from this trip and also the horror of it all. Fort Douaumont and Fort Vaux were eye openers.

Did anyone see the review in the New York Times Book Review of John Keegan's foray into the US Civil War? It was by James McPherson, and all I can say is "Ouch!"

Where else on the Western Front did you go, Bentley?

I did the tour of the Verdun forts and battle locations:

I also went to Dunkirk (along the way)- not First World War. And visited Bruges (just for fun) We drove through Brussels; but really did not see much.

In terms of First World sites:
Fort Vaux
Fort Douaumont
Douaumont village
Fleury village
Fort De Moulainville
Fort De Tavannes
Batterie de Damloup
Fort Souville
The Ossuary at Douaumont
Memorial of Verdon
Voie Sacree (Route 18)
Of course, the cemetaries and monuments to the various parties, ethnic groups, countries

I frankly have not seen Sommes or the other locations. Just too much to see in a finite amount of time.

If that is the case about McPherson..glad to say that the World War I book is very much praised. I have not seen McPherson's review however of the Civil War book.
And why did he not like the civil war book?

Bentley

Macpherson's review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/books/...

Note: You may have to sign up for free access..called Brutal Terrain

Basically, he opened by saying how much he liked and respected Keegan, and what a great historian he is.

Then he explained that Keegan had misplaced Tennessee, gotten dates wrong, and, horror of horrors for a British historian, gotten the Prime Minister wrong. (He thought it was Disraeli, when it was Palmerston.)

Sounds like Keegan was being pushed for his next book before it was ready

Bentley wrote: "Sounds like Keegan was being pushed for his next book before it was ready"

It's the only thing I can imagine.

Really... I had anticipated Keegan's new book for quite some time now... and I had already purchased it. While reading part of the first chapter, his writing style so far seems a bit awkward to get used to.

Joe wrote: "James wrote: "Joe wrote: "I just got back from there too (Oct 4-9th). Did you go to the Arecibo radio observatory?"

James,
Yes we did spend an afternoon visiting Arecibo. It was raining pretty har..."

Fortunately it was perfect weather when I was there and since i know many of the guys that use Arecibo to fire radio waves at Near Earth Objects (getting their shape, location, and other characteristics) I really got the cook's tour. Walked all over the secondary. Pretty scary if one is afraid of heights.

James wrote: "... I really got the cook's tour. ..."

Wow, that must have been amazing!

What struck me while I was there was how simple the surroundings were, as far as technology is concerned. The visitors center had numerous exhibits that were very simply constructed, and the telescope itself was so huge... so much so that it was hard to get the big picture of how it worked. I didn't see a control-room or any computers or buttons that operate it, so it was all just a big amazement to me. In contrast, your visit must really have been rewarding.

Bentley wrote: "Macpherson's review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/books/review/McPherson-t.html"

I just read that review, and it could only be utterly embarrassing for Keegan. The most respected Civil War historian alive totally smashes your new book. I'm curious to hear Keegan's response.

If I were Keegan, I'd be curled up in the fetal position, I think.

Speaking as an author, that's not a review that will sell many books! And truth is, its pretty gentle. Even the positive attributes that Macpherson is at pains to point out seem like pretty obvious stuff, even to a casual student of the Civil War like myself. And while Grant and Sherman may have had a greater grasp of "geostrategic problems" than Lee, they also started from a much more favorable geostrategic position. When you have in essence twice the land mass, twice the population, and far more technology, it makes that generaling job a whole lot easier.

Would have said the same thing Rick..I would love to see some other reviews of the book to see what others have to say.

And Macpherson, I do believe, was looking for some good points to like and I guess they were hard to find.

I was always one who felt that Robert E. Lee was the more superior general who was on the wrong side only due to birth and ancestry; who was vastly better than Sherman or Grant; but was just dealt a losing hand.

In fact, Lee was an exceptional graduate of West Point. He was a distinguished and outstanding soldier in the U.S. Army for over thirty-two years.

What he is best known for unfortunately is for commanding the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia in the American Civil War.

But most people do not know that in early 1861, it was President Abraham Lincoln himself who invited Lee to take command of the entire Union Army! Lee was the best general we had and Lincoln knew this.

Lee declined with regret because his home state of Virginia was seceding from the Union, and this was despite Lee's strongest wishes.

He felt out of loyalty to his home state and his community that he had to help Virginians and the Southern cause though he was not for the war at all. His ancestors had actually founded and developed Virginia so he could not turn his back on them.

After the war, he was very conciliatory and well respected for his efforts to heal the nation and may never have been for slavery himself. His popularity has soared even after the war not only in the South; he really was very well known for his military leadership skills.

I cannot understand overinflating Grant and Sherman while at the same time underestimating the uphill battle that Lee had to face. In some respects, I think it is difficult to write a book about a totally foreign war with little or no intimate involvement with the terrain, locale and/or people...no matter how much research you do; just a personal observation.

Keegan is such a great historian..this must be such a blow to him. These things happen some time for a variety of reasons to the finest writers and historians.

Every writer at every level has things that don't work. I think for a writer like Keegan, it's probably hard to find anybody who will say, "Whoa, back up on that." The publisher, agent etc. might be so excited by dollar signs that they don't "nitpick." Of course, the author is ultimately responsible for the book, but maybe it's harder to get good feedback or find time to slow down if people have very high expectations.

Well, if it means anything, I did buy Keegan's book.

Very true Andrea and Joe, I think I will do the same.

For the group picture, I am rotating between photos of FDR, Lincoln, Jay, Hamilton and Madison (representing the FDR book, the Presidential Series read on Lincoln and the Federalist papers discussion which we are just kicking off). I guess that I should also find some good photos of Eleanor. And possibly the authors. The photo this week is of Jay.

Hello Everybody,

I will be out of pocket for a lot of today as I am on my way back to the states. Things should get back to normal in a couple of days now that I have completed my trip.

Thanks to all of those members who have pitched in.

Regards,

Bentley

Well I am back in the states. I thoroughly enjoyed my time away; but all too soon one has to get back to the everyday realities.

I will have great internet access now and will be back in full swing.

Bentley

Bentley wrote: "Well I am back in the states. I thoroughly enjoyed my time away; but all too soon one has to get back to the everyday realities."

We are all grateful to have you back.
Joe

Bentley wrote: "Well I am back in the states. I thoroughly enjoyed my time away; but all too soon one has to get back to the everyday realities.

I will have great internet access now and will be back in full s..."

There's no place like home, especially if home has great internet access. :) Welcome back!

Thanks Joe..it is always good to have your stuff around (all my books, etc). Having a good network helps too...tough traveling and having access to goodreads..especially some of the places that I traveled to in Scotland.

And thank you for holding down the fort with A. Lincoln and The Federalist Papers.

Hi Elizabeth,

I just saw your post. Great internet access it does have :)

And thank you - glad to be back..where the screen refreshes instantly rather than watching the pixels get painted on one by one (lol).

Bentley

This is a post that our new member Bernie posted. I moved it to the Off Topic - Conversation thread:

Good morning

just putting this out there.

Last night I went to see the play "Stuff Happens" by David Hare at the Royal Alexandra Theatre here in Toronto.

It is a play that I have been looking forward to seeing. It production started in London in 2004 and has had showings in L.A.,New York and I'm sure places in between.

I mention this play because it deals with the American invasion of Iraq and how the the principle players from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice and the other people of this administration went about trying to persuade the world and the U.N. of how Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Whatever your view point is on the war in the Middle east, you should see this play if you have the chance. The acting for this production was magnificent in that I honestly thought that the Bush cabinet was there in front of me for the 2 1/2 hrs.

In the directors notes it reads "masterful blend of documented verbatim text (taken from speeches,interviews,diaries and other public-record sources) and imagined conversations and confrontations between the story's principal players"

If you get the chance see this play and if you have seen it let me know what you thought of it.

This is sort of an interesting link: Learn from my Life Series:

http://www.learnfrommylife.com/#Upcoming...

MOVED FROM INTRODUCTION THREAD - GOOD CONVERSATION WITH ANDRE HEEGER:

Bentley, I don't know about the others but I don't have a problem with well-researched HF.
The more we go back in time, the vaguer the facts and the wobblier non-fiction gets.
F.e. for a story I was writing I had to do a lot of research on the last months of the year 69 AD and what led up to it. As with most writing on the topic, everything I found was either tainted or based on tainted writing from back in the days. Vitellius was shown as a greedy monster while Vespasianus was the hero. The legions grew larger or smaller depending on how the situation needed to be described and who came out the winner. All very much black and white.
As a writer I don't like to put words into the mouths of real people we practically don't know anything about - for true facts, I mean.
Autobiographies were/are always tainted and biographies and other works were paid for either by the person himself or by his adversaries which doesn't help much either.
Another "funny" example: The Varus battle and its consequences. Not only have historians been fighting for ages about where exactly things took place, now that another more recent battlefield has been discovered near Hannover where the Romans slaughtered the Barbarians, all theories about Arminius forever keeping the Romans from entering Germania turn to dust....
That's what makes things so interesting. Basically we still don't know much.

MOVED FROM INTRODUCTION THREAD - GOOD CONVERSATION WITH ANDRE HEEGER:

Andre... I understand and I sympathize too. That is why I added a folder dedicated to just historical fiction. And in our recommendations' threads we have both.

Some folks like one or the other and some folks don't care and/or see the merits of both. We are primarily a non fiction history book club (sort of a purist beginning). However, we welcome discussions of both on our threads...I just ask for a distinction to be made for our readership.

I agree that biographies do have the bias of the author and one has to look for that when reading any biography and of course autobiographies many times serve the person who is writing his or her story. But for the most part, both are closer to the facts than historical fiction is (which in MHO is another step further away). I recommend on any subject that folks read a variety of sources and authors and some historical fictional writers do a lot of research too; but they do have the escape hatch available when they or the publisher call the work fiction or historical fiction. A Doris Kearns Goodwin or a H W Brands or a Jacques Barzun would be on the proverbially hook to mark his sources, and if he or she does not...the guillotine is waiting in the form of the media and academia. I agree that it is a matter of personal preference but somehow I feel closer to the truth with non fiction. Although the pathos, the passion and the absolute closeness of the time period is sometimes more gut wrenching in HF.

But I do see your points and all of your recommendations are superb. Keep them coming.

Bentley

I'm one of the ones who thinks there is value in both non-fiction and historical fiction. I enjoy both a lot. I do like it when authors clearly document sources, so I can figure out how much is conjecture and how much fact. The best authors do this without ruining the flow of the narrative. If a book has a good section of endnotes, I usually put a postit tab on that page so I can easily flip to it.

I do agree with Bentley that we need to clearly delineate whether a book is fiction or non-fiction. There are so many books that are not well researched, and it is harder to tell the not-well-researched fictions from the not-well-researched non-fictions. The former may still have value if it has an amusing storyline, and so may still be recommended. The latter has little value and hopefully falls by the wayside.

Folks..hope everyone is having a good day!

I thought that I had posted this but guess not...Don's note reminded me of it - Here it is - Top 10 Memoirs

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packag...

For History Club photos. for this week ..I have been uploading Sistine Chapel images (Michelangelo - The Agony and the Ecstasy)

Bentley wrote: "I did the tour of the Verdun forts and battle locations:

I also went to Dunkirk (along the way)- not First World War. And visited Bruges (just for fun) We drove through Brussels; but really did n..."

Hi Bentley,

It sounds like your trip to Europe was a lot of fun. A friend and I visited France & Belgium in 1990 to visit the Commonwealth battlefields from WW1, mainly the Somme and Passchendaele. Did you visit Ypres while you were there?
We also toured through the Ardennes to look at areas from the 'Battle of the Bulge'. I copied maps out of old books and obtained material from the Australian War Memorial (trench maps, etc) and the Commonwealth War Graves before going but it would have been nice to have had books like these when I went:

by Stephen O'Shea
I had read this book since I got back and it was an enjoyable read.

by Nigel Jones
by Richard Holmes

Hi Rick,

Just did all of the Verdun battlefields, forts, exhibits, museums, tours though forts, etc. It took us a while. One of the folks that we were with had done Somme and Passchedaele, Ypres. I would like to get back; but I find that I have to do this in small doses. It is particularly sad.

We also did some fun stuff and went to Bruges along the way and through Brussels, and some of the other small towns. The town of Verdun itself was enjoyable.

We stopped in Dunkirk and visited the sites there (WWII); but that leg of the trip was it.

I had spent quite a bit of time traveling through Scotland and the Highlands, Isle of Skye (so not as much time left).

We went through the Ardennes; but had so much to do (in a limited time) that we were focused on Verdun.

At Verdun we also walked through what were once some of these old villages and that in and of itself was powerful, the trenches were something to. How anybody survived that nightmare is beyond me. Many did not.

It sounds like you were even much more thorough than I was.

Bentley

Hi Bentley, funny enough I spent some time in Scotland in 1995, Fort William Henry, Culloden and surrounding areas, such a lovely scenic place. I promised to take my family back there one day to see the woolly bulls and black-faced sheep. I also visited Vimy Ridge in 1990 and walked through the trenches and area that Canadian students on summer vacation seem to look after or act as guides. The battlefield area on the Somme where the Newfoundland Regiment suffered horrendous losses is a sad place to walk around. Pozieres, a small village in the Somme district has a small plaque at the site of the ‘windmill’ stating that Australian troops "fell more thickly on this ridge than on any other battlefield on the war".

http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/p...

Yes...don't forget the Highland Cows. There were more than a few of them just sitting in the middle of the road (if I could call it a road that I was on). More like a trail, I swear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_ca...

Sheep and big stags too. Quite the experience especially when going east to west along the Northern most tips of Scotland. The A road was not much of an A road.

I did not get to Pozieres either on the final leg on the trip through Belgium and France. It was a sad battlefield for your countrymen.