group discussion
topic:
Making It Better >
The Iraq War
really? he is taking them out of one place and just puting them back in another. i am sorry, but that isn't exactly brilliant.
We went over there because we got information, just as everyone else did, including the UN, that the terrorist camps over in the middle-east had Weapons of Mass Destruction. Now, we didn't find physical WMDs, but we found that they could create them and perhaps were already started on creating them. We also found mass graves and torture chambers. These people were being controlled terribly by their "government".
Not only Iraq, but several different Middle-Eastern countries began this war with the act of terror on September 11th, 2001. They didn't have a reason to attack and they didn't have a purpose for killing all of those innocent people. They just did it because they hate that we are indeed a free country.
I'm not saying that all Iraqis are bad - there are definitely good Iraqis and that's why we went in in the second place. Saddam Hussein was controlling every aspect of every human being's life that lived in the borders of Iraq. I remember watching reports on the news and such when Saddam was taken out and into custody of America. Terrorists like Saddam and Bin Laden are the main issues here. If the major extremists would stop making a fuss over America being a free nation than we'd probably have no problems with the Middle-East.
Another main reason that we first attacked Iraq was because after President Bush made his War on Terror speech he asked Saddam Hussein if he was "With us, or against us." He gave us the wrong answer and told us that he was against us. That was the last chance Saddam got before we went in to attack. The problems also didn't just start on September 11th, 2001. They started long before with Bin Laden, however September 11th was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.
And I'm not saying that the Middle-East is the only American enemy - I'm merely saying that, at the moment, they are indeed one of the biggest threats towards America.
Sorry for the long post :)
Jayda wrote: Sorry for the long post
Have you seen some of mine?
Well one big problem with American leaders, is they like to be involved in everything.
We went over there because we got information, just as everyone else did, including the UN, that the terrorist camps over in the middle-east had Weapons of Mass Destruction.First of all, there weren't terrorist training camps in Iraq. Second of all, the whole world didn't have "information" that Iraq had WMD. The UN's intelligence was that they did not have WMD. Also, many of the claims that the Bush administration was using were debunked well before the war began. The Bush administration engaged in classic confirmation bias, not trying to find the truth but simply trying to find any intelligence they could use to justify the war. It's also worth mentioning that in the run-up to the war there was an effective UN weapons inspection that was 1/1000 the cost of the war.
Now, we didn't find physical WMDs, but we found that they could create them and perhaps were already started on creating them.
Could create them? Anyone could create them. Let's invade Sweden, in that case.
Perhaps they were already started in creating them? Well, aside from the fact that, no, they were not starting to create them, we don't "perhaps."
Not only Iraq, but several different Middle-Eastern countries began this war with the act of terror on September 11th, 2001.
"Not only Iraq"? How about not Iraq at all. They had nothing to do with September 11. Nothing! No Middle Eastern country was behind the attack. It was Al Queda, which is, in case you didn't know, not a country. You can look at your globe if you don't believe me. 15 of the hijackers were Saudi Arabian. None were Iraqi.
They didn't have a reason to attack and they didn't have a purpose for killing all of those innocent people. They just did it because they hate that we are indeed a free country.
Because they hate our freedom? This is asinine. This is Bush administration propaganda. Certainly the attack was unjustified and horrendous, but they had reasons that they thought justified it and they had nothing to do with hating our freedom. They have stated their reasons. They have never said anything about hating our freedom. They hate our hegemony.
Another main reason that we first attacked Iraq was because after President Bush made his War on Terror speech he asked Saddam Hussein if he was "With us, or against us." He gave us the wrong answer and told us that he was against us.
You don't get to bully people into agreeing with you. First of all, this is a false dichotomy. "With us" or "against us" are not the only choices. Iraq didn't do anything to us. You don't get to invade a country simply because they're "not with us."
Alright, I'll respond to the rest later, but I saw a contradiction in your post that I want to address now.
You don't get to bully people into agreeing with you.
That seems to have been their goal on 9/11. We weren't bullying them, they were bullying us and we decided not to take it anymore.
The rest I'll have to respond to later/Monday, depending on time and such :)
We are helping people over there.. My boyfriend just got home from being in iraq for 15 mos! I dont agree with our pushing democracy on other countries but I think our precense over there has helped in some ways. My man is military police and most of what they did was to work with the iraqi police and help them do their job better. But now they are sending more troops to afganistan.. I dont really know anything that. But the small things like the guys givin the kids toys and candy is important. The kids favorite: Pens. Its so rewarding to give a child something so simple and see the joy they get from it. But I wish america would have just minded its own business so we wouldn't have yet another generation of veterans or the even more horrible: Fallen soilders :*( I pray for each and every guy to come home safe.
I agree with most of what you say, though we didn't necessarily push democracy on Iraq. They welcomed it with open arms because they didn't want someone like Saddam coming back in and taking over their lives once again. Democracy has been a blessing for them.
And America's own business was getting rid of terrorists who could've created another situation such as 9/11, which is one reason for the war.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you :)
Democracy was a blessing for the people. I completely agree. I don't agree with america's war on terror, I understand that it was needed but I still don't agree. This counry has plenty of its own internal problems that all that money could be used for.
"Because they hate our freedom? This is asinine. This is Bush administration propaganda. Certainly the attack was unjustified and horrendous, but they had reasons that they thought justified it and they had nothing to do with hating our freedom. They have stated their reasons. They have never said anything about hating our freedom. They hate our hegemony."
Our freedom, our way of life, the fact were a Christian nation and the fact that we are the epitomy of the western world is why they attacked us. Saying our freedom isn't a reason is stupid.
"You don't get to bully people into agreeing with you. First of all, this is a false dichotomy. "With us" or "against us" are not the only choices. Iraq didn't do anything to us. You don't get to invade a country simply because they're "not with us."
When Saddam said he wasn't with us, he knw what he was saying but he said it anyways. He made his decision and thank god he did because it resulted in him being killed and democracy being brought to Iraq which is a GOOD thing.
That seems to have been their goal on 9/11. We weren't bullying them, they were bullying us and we decided not to take it anymore. Okay, first of all, you have to realize that when you are talking about 9/11 and the Iraq war, you are talking about two different things, because Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Second of all, how is this a contradiction? Because terrorists do something that makes it okay for us to do it? I think that's exactly what makes it something that we shouldn't do. My point was that you can't just arbitrarily point your finger at a country and say, "Join us or die," and when they don't join us we're justified in attacking them. Should we attack every country who didn't join our coalition to wage this war?
...we didn't necessarily push democracy on Iraq. They welcomed it with open arms...Um, do you remember the last six years at all? Does the word "insurgency" ring a bell?
Okay, Dan already said this, but it seems like no one understands/got it.
The Iraq War has/had nothing to do with 9/11. There were no people from Iraq on the planes. There were no people from Iraq who planned the attack. There was no reason to believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.
If you don't understand that, read the 9/11 Report. (yeah, right like that will happen)
I guess I just don't understand how anyone in here can simply not know that Iraq and 9/11 are in no way connected. We have known this for a long, long time.
Our freedom, our way of life, the fact were a Christian nation
Last I checked, this was a secular nation. That was established a little over 200 years ago. It isn't a Christian nation.
More misinformation. You may just be listening to John McCain a little too much.
"the fact were a Christian nation and the fact that we are the epitomy of the western world is why they attacked us. Saying our freedom isn't a reason is stupid."We are not a Christian nation. Otherwise we would be stoning the little bratty children.
Dear God you people take everything literally...we are a MAJORITY Christian nation and everyone knwos that, especially the radical muslims. And though we do not have a "national" religion, yes we are a Christian nation by majority. I don't really think terrorists give a shit about a technicality.
And Nathan I know they had nothing to do with 9/11 but after 9/11 we asked Saddam if he was with us or against us and he made his choice, is all i was saying on that.
No, we aren't taking it too seriously. Even if we were 100% Christian, we could never be called a Christian nation, unless we had a theocracy. By definition. :)Fun fact-non-theist is the 3rd largest group in US. At the rate of growth, we'll take over in about 30 something years. X)
yup. a lot of the stuff you say is reasonable. and i agree with most of it that is. NOT ALL of it, but most of it.
well, like, hmmmm... let's see:1. we aren't the same religion
2. we disagree on stuff like why stuff happened, like the Iraq war.
3 that is it.
Well, no one can agree on everything. :)((TOPIC REKINDLE))
"And Nathan I know they had nothing to do with 9/11 but after 9/11 we asked Saddam if he was with us or against us and he made his choice, is all i was saying on that"
Nah don't apologize Milana. They knew what I meant and they were just being difficult.
We weren't being difficult. We just think that words mean something. I say what I mean, not "sort of" what I mean. We have plenty of words in the English language. We have enough to say exactly what you mean and not just approximately what you mean.
And Nathan I know they had nothing to do with 9/11 but after 9/11 we asked Saddam if he was with us or against us and he made his choice, is all i was saying on that.
9/11 was used by the gevernment as a reason to invade Iraq. I hope you aren't denying that well known factoid.
You ask anyone and we ARE a Christian nation. Just because its not a written anywhere doesn't mean its not true. We are majority Christian which makes us a Christian nation. It doesn't mean our country is run by the pope or anything it just means that we are a majoritily Christian nation which IS a reason those crazy muslims attacked us.
And yes I could've been clearer but again, you knew what I was saying because you're not stupid which means your being difficult.
Dear jesus..or me..or w/e..where in any of my statements did I come anywhere close to denying that the government used 9/11 to invade Iraq. All I said was "i know they didn't have any part in Iraq". And using 9/11 as an excuse was smart because it got the common man behind the government at least for a little while because they wanted revenge. It didn't last long but it lasted long enough.
"We are majority Christian which makes us a Christian nation. It doesn't mean our country is run by the pope or anything it just means that we are a majoritily Christian nation which IS a reason those crazy muslims attacked us."By the definition of what Christian Nation means, we cannot be for our legal system in not founded in Christian principles. Only a theocracy can have that title, which we are NOT.
You ask anyone and we ARE a Christian nation. Just because its not a written anywhere doesn't mean its not true.
No, we are not a Christian nation. We have seperation of chrusch and state. Sometimes that line is crossed, unfortunately, but the majority of the time, the wall remains intact.
We are majority Christian which makes us a Christian nation.
No, no, it doesn't.
And yes I could've been clearer but again, you knew what I was saying because you're not stupid which means your being difficult.
Clearly your previous paragraph implies that you aren't really sure what you meant. So how do you expect any of us to be sure.
And using 9/11 as an excuse was smart because it got the common man behind the government at least for a little while because they wanted revenge.
Do you support such actions?
"Do you support such actions?"
We killed an evil dictator so yes.
"No, we are not a Christian nation. We have seperation of chrusch and state. Sometimes that line is crossed, unfortunately, but the majority of the time, the wall remains intact." \
Again, you're taking as we literally have the title of a Christian nation which IS NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying the majority of our people are Christians, yes? So...in turn the muslims VIEW us as a Christian nation that threatens their MUSLIM way of life.
Does that make what I was saying easier? Or are you going to continue taking everyhting so literally?
Does that make what I was saying easier?
Well, once you start using words correctly, I may be happy. First you said,You ask anyone and we ARE a Christian nation.
Then you said, muslims VIEW us as a Christian nation.
These are two very different statements. I may agree with the second, but I certainly don't agree with the first.
We killed an evil dictator so yes.
So you agree with the government lying to the American people in order to pursue a hidden agenda? You claim the ends justify the means?
"So you agree with the government lying to the American people in order to pursue a hidden agenda? You claim the ends justify the means?"
It isn't the first time the government has done it and if Obama's administration did it we wouldn't be having this conversation because you wouldl just look the other way so, yes, the ends justify the means.
Integrity = firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility.
I'd say that Kyle has integrity because he speaks his mind and his beliefs, and, in all honesty, the truth.
But, if the ends justify any means, then you have no morals to consider if these means are unethical, for if any means is ethical, so any morals to discriminate means are useless.
I'd say that Kyle has integrity because he speaks his mind and his beliefs, and, in all honesty, the truth.
Jayda, he just said it is okay to lie to people in order to get what you want. If you think that is integrity, you better look at the definition you typed again.
Lies = Morality?
Perhaps you feel that way, but that doesn't really surprise me coming from a religious person.
