Wild Things: YA Grown-Up discussion

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Fantasy/Sci-Fi > What is Fantasy Sci-Fi?

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message 1: by Fiona (last edited May 11, 2009 05:58PM) (new)

Fiona (bookcoop) What books come within this genre? How would you describe it - the differences say between fantasy/sci-fi and other sub-genres like Dystopian fantasy and the like?


message 2: by Dan (new)

Dan (Dand) I recalled a great science fiction book from my youth. Though its been decades since I read The Forever Formula,I still remember it being fun book and easy read.


Elizabeth (Miss Eliza) (Strange_MissEliza) | 31 comments Personally, though I don't believe this description, the funniest definition between the two was on this past season of Party Down. One of the main characters is obsessed with Sci-Fi, and his definition is, if there's a dragon in it, it's Fantasy.


message 4: by Dan (new)

Dan (Dand) I tend to think of Fantasy in that way. Books like Lord of the Rings and such.
Sci-fi usually needs a space ship.


message 5: by Carolyn (last edited Aug 18, 2009 02:05PM) (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Dan wrote: "I tend to think of Fantasy in that way. Books like Lord of the Rings and such.
Sci-fi usually needs a space ship."


But Dan, what do you decide when it has both dragons and a space ship? =)
(An excellent example is All the Weyrs of Pern)

I'm a big fan of both science fiction and fantasy, and while there is a lot of crossover happening in the genres (and a lot of disagreement on where the line is, and new terms being coined), my personal definition is reliant on the author's intent.

So, stuff happening in a story being described as magic (whether inborn or alchemical or tapping into ley lines), gods, goddesses, fairies and fey are all Fantasy for me.

The opposite - plot elements or background having a scientific rationale (whether realistic within our current scientific understandings or not), is science fiction. I also include the social/soft sciences in that as well as the archetypical 'hard' science.

Some elements can go either way.

Dragons, which in many cases are a fantasy element, as a 'mystical/magical' creature, are portrayed in the Pern series as the result of genetic engineering on the part of the original colonists. Regardless of how agrarian/low tech the society in the story is, the presence of dragons has been explained as a result of science. Even the bond between rider and dragon is shown to be a kind of 'imprinting' which occurs at birth of the dragon (and only at birth - quack!)

Another plot element that can go either way is telepathy/mind speaking, or just about any mental powers on that level. Some fantasy stories explain the ability as a result of magic and spells, while science fiction stories will explain it as a result of mutation, or genetic tinkering, computer chip implants or even of cross-breeding with aliens.

Then you have books like The Time Traveler's Wife, which people who love it are horrified and shocked when you classify it as science fiction - (genetically-based time travel = science fiction), some of them are positively outraged.

Which is both funny and sad, since there is really a lot of wonderful literature and a host of great characters in science fiction. It can be deep and complex, or light and fun, there's some for every taste.


message 6: by James (new)

James (Random1634) | 1 comments Fantasy has trees, Sci-fi has bolts. Heard Orson Scott Card say that, seems to fit.


message 7: by Kris (new)

Kris Carolyn, that was a great definition. I work in a middle school library and that's what I try to tell the kids. If it can be explained by science and natural laws as we know them (even if the science/technology is beyond what we can do now), it is SF, if it goes into the supernatural it is fantasy.


message 8: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Thanks Kris! = )

James wrote: "Fantasy has trees, Sci-fi has bolts. Heard Orson Scott Card say that, seems to fit."

Ummmm, snappy, but not really true.
Check out any of the science fiction about societies using genetic engineering to create/change animals to fulfill a function, whether super-specialized or not. A good example is West of Eden, the only 'technology' in the series are the bioengineered creatures used by the dinosaur race.

Also doesn't take into account pretty much the entire Urban Fantasy genre, most set in modern times (with plenty of technology.)


St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures ||| ♥ Zin Uru ♥ |||| The best genre ever, it makes a good read and is equally exciting to watch. I didn't understand what James meant by "Sci-Fi has bolts", mostly cos what I have seen of sci-fi has been mostly about space travel or alien life. Fantasy usually has magical talking beings sometimes cohabiting with humans , sometimes being human themselves. I honestly didn't know if genetic engineering is sci-fi as well, but thinking about it some more I guess it would be cos of all the androids we need for colonisation and space travel or even for building a space ship and I guess once it starts, science keeps 'manufacturing' biological creatures as well. Has anyone read a good book recently?


message 10: by Dan (last edited Sep 09, 2009 11:08AM) (new)

Dan (Dand) Nausheen wrote: "The best genre ever, it makes a good read and is equally exciting to watch. I didn't understand what James meant by "Sci-Fi has bolts", mostly cos what I have seen of sci-fi has been mostly about s..."
"Sci-Fi has bolts" means that it has machines ie. spaceships, robots, androids, computers; things made out of nuts and bolts (hardware).

Nausheen, you have to read Ender's Game if you haven't done so. One of the best Sci-Fi ever.


message 11: by Renee (new)

Renee (ElenaRenee) | 82 comments Now a days the preferred term for these books is speculative fiction. Under it there are divisions such as scinece fiction, urban fantasy, high fantasy ect ect. It like mystery where it is divied into cosey, locked room, police procerdurals ect


message 12: by Heather (new)

Heather Ohana (blackdotbug) Those are on my TBR, glad you enjoyed them... I may have to move them up.


St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures ||| ♥ Zin Uru ♥ |||| Dan, thanks ...I will certainly keep Ender's Game on my To-Read list.

Renee wrote something really interesting about speculative fiction. I was thinking the other day that most of Fantasy/Sci-fi creatures can actually be considered as speculative Alien Biology class, something people actually do in universties. Something like if plants were purple and homo sapiens were actually photosynthetic and lots of alternate versions.


message 14: by Sybs (new)

Sybs | 3 comments This is great - I was thinking about sci-fi today and what books/authors are out there for YA - so a big thanks to all those who have made suggestions and if there are more would love to hear them


message 15: by Dan (last edited Sep 09, 2009 11:07AM) (new)

Dan (Dand) The Ender's Shadow series by Orson Scott Card is good too.
I also enjoyed The Stainless Steel Rat when I was younger.


message 16: by Carolyn (last edited Sep 09, 2009 11:52AM) (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Here are some science fiction that I would say are excellent for YA (some are not classified as YA, but are 'safe' for YA):

The Declaration by Gemma Malley
Little Brother by Cory Doctorow
Dolphin Island by Arthur C. Clarke
Dragonsong and Dragonsinger (also found as The Harper Hall of Pern by Anne McCaffrey (and the rest of the Pern series)
Feed by M.T Anderson
Lois Lowry's three similar-world books: The Giver, Gathering Blue, and Messenger
Ender's Game, and then Ender's Shadow(and the rest of that series) by Orson Scott Card
A Thousand Words for Stranger by Julie Czerneda (and the rest of the series)
Beholder's Eye by Julie Czerneda (and the rest of the series)
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
The Pip & Flinx series by Alan Dean Foster, as well as his Commonwealth series
The Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold
Jumper and Reflex by Steven Gould
Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series
Commitment Hour by James Alan Gardner (for ages 14+)
Soon I Will Be Invincible for superhero fun
Robert A. Heinlein's classic shorter novels like Citizen of the Galaxy, Have Space Suit-Will Travel, Space Cadet, Farmer in the Sky, and Orphans of the Sky
The Ship Who Sang and sequels by Anne McCaffrey & co-authors
The Acorna The Unicorn Girl series by Anne McCaffrey for the 9-11 age group
Most all of Andre Norton's books - The Time Traders, Star Born, Breed to Come, Flight in Yiktor, Forerunner, The Beast Master, etc.
Little Fuzzy and Fuzzy Sapiens by H. Beam Piper
Sector General books by James White

These are books off my shelves, that I've read almost all of. I'm happy to answer any questions, or narrow the choices down for you.


message 17: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 157 comments A lot of good choices there Carolyn. I would second Little Brother, Soon I will Be Invincible, and the books by Heinlein and Norton. Heinlein especially :)

A lot of the others I haven't read, but they've been on my radar (or my TBR shelf!) for a while.


message 18: by Tlc (new)

Tlc | 43 comments Nice list Carolyn. Will help me point students in the right direction since Sci Fi (ok and Fantasy too) are the library's top genre requested. Thanks!


message 19: by Tlc (new)

Tlc | 43 comments I have a question about Things Not Seen by Andrew Clements - Speculative Fiction>Sci Fi or Speculative Fiction>Fantasy? It's one of my favorites about a young man who awakens one morning after sleeping under his electric blanket only to discover he's invisible. It's realistically set and has the scientist parent working on the solution.


message 20: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments BunWat wrote: "I just read Flora Secunda and Flora's Dare, which were terrific. Fantasy series set in an alternate California, with all sorts of wonderful things, Aztec magicians and magic boots and preturnatural..."

Bun Wat, Your read list has been helpful to me on YA Challenge #2. Would you classify The Golden Compass as SF/F? If so, could we discuss it for one of my tasks. Also, I selected Flora Segunda based on your recommendation for another part of the challenge and am looking forward to reading it.


message 21: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments BunWat wrote: "Hi Lydia, yes I would absolutely classify the Golden Compass as fantasy or speculative fiction. I would be happy to discuss it. I don't know what the rules are do we make a thread, or ...? I hope..."

It will take me a couple of weeks or so (I have to get the book, read it, etc.) but we can probably initiate a discussion (along with others) under this genre.

Thanks an awful lot! If you like, I would very much like to extend friendship to you.


message 22: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Tlc wrote: "I have a question about Things Not Seen by Andrew Clements - Speculative Fiction>Sci Fi or Speculative Fiction>Fantasy? It's one of my favorites about a young man who awakens one morning after slee..."

I think the lines are getting very blurry around these genre headings. Authors seem to be mixing and matching elements from just about everywhere. I mean how does one classify a book that has elves, werewolves and spaceships. The book you're describing with the chap waking up invisible and having parents who are scientists who are trying to find a cure seems to slot into that genre void. My own book I describe sometimes as 'paranormal social realism' but you're not going to find that heading on any bookshop shelves, while the Australian publisher described it as an historical fantasy. It seems like a tricky on-going question that doesn't have an easy answer.




message 23: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Lydia wrote: "BunWat wrote: "Hi Lydia, yes I would absolutely classify the Golden Compass as fantasy or speculative fiction. I would be happy to discuss it. I don't know what the rules are do we make a thread,..."

Hi BunWat and Lydia. Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' series is one of my favourite YA trilogies. By the way, I'm not much clueier about the rules, so I've just barged in. I'd tend to favour labelling The Golden Compass as fantasy even though it's got a scientific element with the physicist. It doesn't seem to have any of the Speculative-SciFi elements that one would expect from traditional SciFi. What do you two think?




message 24: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Good definition. I'd completely forgotten about Clarke's law. By the way, my brother once played table tennis with Clarke in Sri Lanka. Sorry, totally off topic. I don't know of Niven? Can you elucidate?


message 25: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Ah, yes, I've heard of Ringworld - is it a series or a trilogy or something?. Haven't read it, though. haven't read a lot of sci-fi recently at all, which is a shame, as I'm sure there's some amazing stuff out there. The Golden Compass is the first in the series - had a different name in the UK and Oz (called Northern Lights). The first two in the series are excellent, while the third is very good but is missing something. be interested to hear what you think when you finish the first one.


message 26: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments BunWat wrote: "I've read all three Dark Materials books, and listened to the audio versions, which I also enjoyed. Its Lydia who has not read them. She found Golden Compass on my shelves, and one of the challen..."

My daughters were raised in Nome, Alaska (where LIFE is science fiction) and my best friend owned the most northwestern bookstore in the U.S. She gave the Pullman books to the girls when they first came out but I never read them. The girls were quite confused after reading the book (SFF was not high on our reading list at the time.) So I'm just late to his work.
For me, speculative fiction seems to have an historical element. Is this still true?


message 27: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments Question: Has anyone found a SFF YA/Adult book that has gay characters?


message 28: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments Malcolm and BunWat,

Then I'm a bit confused. I read this wonderful anthology once about what would have happened if the alternative presidential candidate had won the election, written by some of the top names in the SF field. It was the first time I ever even entertained actually reading SFF. The short stories followed in sequence, no less. I was told that this is what defined speculative fiction.

BunWat, thank you for the names. I will be looking them up and, naturally, expanding my TBR list.


message 29: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments While I tend to agree with you, BunWat, - that the term speculative fiction makes a neat umbrella for a whole range of sub-genres - I do find that, like Lydia, these terms can be confusing and misleading. Where does one place a book like Cormac McCarthy's The Road? It's set in a short-range dystopian future in which a father and child struggle to survive. This means that it could be labelled sci-fi? But a lot of readers might describe it as literature, which is a genre in itself I suppose. By the way, I don't know if anyone's read The Road but it's very, very good

I think we're pattern-makers/recognisers and we're bound to put everything we see into categories, which is fun and useful and makes groups like these work really well, but ultimately there are going to be those works that refuse to be categorised.

The other book - possibly my all-time favourite dystopian novel - that refuses to my mind to be clearly catergorised is Riddley Walker. While the language it's written in is difficult to say the least, a kind of post-apocalyptic Cockney, the novel is so full of interesting ideas and plays with language so successfully that I rate it as one of the all time greats. Whether it's going to become a classic rather than just a cult book is debatable. Is there anyone else out there who's read it?


St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures ||| ♥ Zin Uru ♥ |||| Eugene Can you elaborate please? Cos I think Fantasy has similar laws as reality but is somehow different. What do you refer to when you call it a free society? I think there are masters and slaves in some dragon books just like anywhere else.

Just a thought ::; would alternate history become fantasy/sci-fi if set in a magical land way in the future or maybe the alternative candidate is an alien , a bit like X men lol


St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures ||| ♥ Zin Uru ♥ |||| Has anyone read Seeds of Time? I really found the book very engrossing. I also read this other book by Ben Bova, it had a really cool idea about a sphere around the sun...it was a bit of a drag though sometimes. Alpha Centauri is also a nice series.


message 32: by Sybs (new)

Sybs | 3 comments I am a big fan of Riddley Walker - I guess I didn't see it as a YA book - prob b/c I read it when I was at uni!!

I loved the exploration of a new language, new rules, new society coming out of turmoil - I guess there are many variations on that theme though.


message 33: by Sybs (new)

Sybs | 3 comments you are a gem - have printed out the list and am now going to try and make headway with it.
thanks


message 34: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Hi Sybs, I wasn't putting forward Riddley Walker as a YA book just as one of my all time favourites. Glad to hear there's others out there who like it. A lot of people struggle with it, mostly because of the post-apocalyptic language. I think I've read it about five or six times now and still find I get something out of it. Mind you I gre up in that area of the UK so it has a peculiar resonance for me.


message 35: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Malcolm wrote: "While I tend to agree with you, BunWat, - that the term speculative fiction makes a neat umbrella for a whole range of sub-genres - I do find that, like Lydia, these terms can be confusing and misleading. Where does one place a book like Cormac McCarthy's The Road? It's set in a short-range dystopian future in which a father and child struggle to survive. This means that it could be labelled sci-fi? But a lot of readers might describe it as literature, which is a genre in itself I suppose..."

I have to agree with BunWat on this - classifying something as 'literary' is a statement of it's quality, not it's topic. Ursula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness is pretty universally acknowledged to be 'literary' science fiction.

A book like McCarthy's The Road is definitely science fiction - the whole raison d'etre for the plot is the desolation of the landscape and the character's constant struggle, not only physically, but also emotionally to survive wouldn't make sense without that post-apocalyptic scenario.

So, picked up this link from another GoodReader in a different group I'm in, but the topic of this post is all about a recent flap which has spurred discussion of 'literary' vs 'genre' - whether they are mutually exclusive, etc.
http://ellen-datlow.livejournal.com/2...

As a longtime reader of all kinds of speculative fiction, I find it laughable how many people automatically dismiss SF/Fantasy and all 'speculative fiction as 'crap' not worth reading. Yet, when I discuss with them whether they've read, oh 1984 or Fahrenheit 451 or Dante's Inferno or Shakespeare's Midsummer's Night Dream or a host of other works that would unarguably be classified as 'literary' works and as classics and are taught as such in many schools and colleges - and yet they are all some kind of speculative fiction - dystopias, demons and fairies alike.


message 36: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Lydia wrote: "Question: Has anyone found a SFF YA/Adult book that has gay characters?"

There are plenty of them - one of the things I enjoy about science fiction is gender discussions within a novel's setting.

So, I guess my question before naming some is, are you looking for novels where the character is gay, but that's just ancillary to the story, or are you looking for books that pivot around gender and/or gender determination?


message 37: by Dan (last edited Sep 14, 2009 11:03AM) (new)

Dan (Dand) BunWat wrote: "Well I guess you have to go to Clarke's law, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Then of course Niven's corollary, "any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." :D
"


It has always been human nature to dismiss something as magic just because it is not understood. Go back a few hundred years and things that we consider to be solid science were considered black magic or witchcraft.

Just look at "Star Trek" and their handheld communicators, not much different than our cell phones now.

I suspect that if you could jump forward a few hundred years things that we consider impossible (teleportation, traveling at the speed of light, etc.) or magic and quite possible.






message 38: by Dan (new)

Dan (Dand) Lydia wrote: "Malcolm and BunWat,

Then I'm a bit confused. I read this wonderful anthology once about what would have happened if the alternative presidential candidate had won the election, written by some o..."


Sounds like an interesting book, what is the title?


message 39: by Carolyn (last edited Sep 14, 2009 11:54AM) (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Dan wrote: "Sounds like an interesting book, what is the title?"

Lydia, please correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like Alternate Presidents, edited by Mike Resnick. It's part of a series - Alternate Tyrants, Alternate Kennedys, Alternate Warriors, Alternate Outlaws, etc.

If you enjoy those kinds of alternate history stories, another good series is by Harry Turtledove - Alternate Generals.


message 40: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Carolyn wrote: "Malcolm wrote: "While I tend to agree with you, BunWat, - that the term speculative fiction makes a neat umbrella for a whole range of sub-genres - I do find that, like Lydia, these terms can be co..."
This whole sci-fi/fantasy and literature debate is quite fascinating. Don't we have to be careful when talking about Shakespeare and Dante as speculative fiction? Surely we have to take into account the fact that these are recently coined terms - the last 150 years or so at a guess - and that people's belief systems in Dante's Italy or Elizabethan England were clouded by religious bias, faith and superstition, which means for them such texts might appear awfully realistic. Just a thought.




message 41: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Seigel (rachelns) | 5 comments Tlc wrote: "I have a question about Things Not Seen by Andrew Clements - Speculative Fiction>Sci Fi or Speculative Fiction>Fantasy? It's one of my favorites about a young man who awakens one morning after slee..."

I've always classified that as Sci-Fi because of the scientific elements. I think if he turned invisible because of some magic spell or something like that, it could cross over into fantasy.


message 42: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Seigel (rachelns) | 5 comments Nausheen wrote: "Eugene Can you elaborate please? Cos I think Fantasy has similar laws as reality but is somehow different. What do you refer to when you call it a free society? I think there are masters and slaves..."

Pardon my butting in, but I wrote an article on this for a children's magazine last year. Fantasy is generally considered to be pure imagination- not grounded in reality at all. Within the fantasy genre, there are several sub-genres, including High fantasy- wizards and magic (ie Harry Potter) and Urban Fantasy-magical or fantastical beings exist in our reality.

Science fiction is grounded in the possibility of what could happen, and encompasses most of these alternate reality type stories such as Hunger Games and the Giver. Within this genre, you have dystopian literature (again, refrencing Hunger Games) time travel (which could also be considered a genre of fantasy) etc... Speculative fiction is the umbrella term given to both of these genres and its sub genres because the defining line between them can be rather murky at times. :-)


message 43: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Seigel (rachelns) | 5 comments BunWat wrote: "I agree Rachel. I would add that horror also falls under the umbrella of speculative fiction, because such things as demons and monsters and ghosts are also speculations. And again, there are book..."

You are absolutely right. I forgot to add Horror fiction to that list, and like you, some of my favourite books are right in-between.


message 44: by St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures (last edited Sep 15, 2009 03:39PM) (new)

St[♥]r Pr!nc:$$ N[♥]wsheen pictures, pictures, pictures ||| ♥ Zin Uru ♥ |||| Rachel: You can butt in all you like ") And I do agree with you that some of the horror can really just be speculative fantasy/fiction. It may have its roots in "fear of the Great Unknown" . For instance, a lot of outer space based sci-fi also deals with unknown predators and an alien habitat. WHo knows the mythical creatures of ancient civilizations may really have been alien life forms that hmans managed to conquer and that is how it all began...sometimes history repeats itself.

Maybe Eugene should say: Sci-Fi - There's a cure for the common cold. :) {{he said there's NO cure for the common cold}} or was he going for the other side of the coin, that no matter how far in the future we still can't find immunity to cold !! lol

I loved watching the movie Reign of Fire, it's sort of apocalyptic with dragons and fire and fancy weapons. And it all happens in the UK.


message 45: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Seigel (rachelns) | 5 comments Malcolm wrote: "Carolyn wrote: "Malcolm wrote: "While I tend to agree with you, BunWat, - that the term speculative fiction makes a neat umbrella for a whole range of sub-genres - I do find that, like Lydia, these..."

I don't think we necessarily do have to be worried about using those terms to refer to Shakespeare and Dante. I would absolutely call the Tempest and Midsummer Night's Dream for example fantasy. I also think that most writing dervies from our own systems of belief and superstition. The biggest difference now is that in the information age, the world is somewhat less mysterious than it would have been in Shakespeare's or Dante's time, and as civilization progresses, our ideas of Fantasy and Sci Fi also progress and evolve. You could also technically classify authors such as H.G. Wells and Jules Verne as Sci-Fi, and even as "Steam Punk", though the latter is a relatively recent term.


message 46: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 67 comments Malcolm wrote: "Don't we have to be careful when talking about Shakespeare and Dante as speculative fiction? Surely we have to take into account the fact that these are recently coined terms - the last 150 years or so at a guess - and that people's belief systems in Dante's Italy or Elizabethan England were clouded by religious bias, faith and superstition, which means for them such texts might appear awfully realistic. Just a thought."

Actually, no, I don't think we need to take into account how long ago they were written - because they are still being read today. We continuously classify things as we go along in our lives, as we discover or create a new term, we use it.
Unfortunately, even today, peoples beliefs are still "clouded by religious bias, faith and superstition" - you'll still find people who believe in fairies and demons and angels.
What the masses do or do not believe in doesn't really change the fact that a story about fairies is still a fantasy - it just isn't taught that way. When you ask people how to classify Shakespeare, they'll either put his works into the categories of Literature or Classics (which seems to mean basically that they've been around a long time and are still being read.)
I bring up Dante and Shakespeare mainly to demonstrate that the genre categories of Science Fiction and Fantasy pretty much get short shrift from reviewers and readers in general, and mostly without actually thinking about it.


message 47: by Malcolm (new)

Malcolm Walker (MalcolmWalker) | 76 comments Yes, I think you're right about Science Fiction and Fantasy getting a bad rap out there (apart fro the followers of both genres). A lecturer at my old university reckoned some of the best cutting edge fiction was in the science fiction area.


message 49: by Koori no hi (last edited Sep 26, 2009 04:53PM) (new)

Koori no hi (Koorinohi) I understand the confusion between scientific and fantastic genres, and it bothers me that a person would knock one while saying the other is what they read. I read mostly Fantasy, but sometimes there is no way to know which it is and general fic too, that's just whatever doesn't fit into any other category (like country music.)

Like the Lion Boy trilogy. Those were good, but they were SiFi. Other people would call them general fiction though.


message 50: by Lydia (new)

Lydia (LoverofInformation) | 596 comments Carolyn wrote: So, I guess my question before naming some is, are you looking for novels where the character is gay, but that's just ancillary to the story, or are you looking for books that pivot around gender and/or gender determination?

Either one, Carolyn. I know there are a number of books in which the gender discussion is part of the world that has been created. I'm not sure I've seen a YA SFF where the central character is gay.


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Books mentioned in this topic

The Forever Formula (other topics)
The Time Traveler's Wife (other topics)
All the Weyrs of Pern (other topics)
West of Eden (other topics)
Ender's Game (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic

Robert A. Heinlein (other topics)
Marion Zimmer Bradley (other topics)
Alan Dean Foster (other topics)
James White (other topics)
Andre Norton (other topics)
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