There has been a great deal of talk among group members about self-publishing recently. I posted this message on the Fantasy forum, but received no response, so I thought I would add it here:

Preston FM will be serialising Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine for Chat City.
It is scheduled to begin airing on Monday 11th May at 8.20am (GMT) every morning Monday to Friday in Chat City. All the episodes for that week will then be repeated in an omnibus edition at 5pm (GMT) each Sunday.
You can listen live online here: http://www.preston.fm/
5-8 minute excerpts will be broadcast daily.

The book was originally published by PublishAmerica and is now available on Lulu.com at half the Amazon price.

Prejudices will always exist; it is up to authors themselves to work hard and promote their work and it's much easier if you ignore all the snide comments. I do.

Good luck with your books and if you can spare a few minutes throughout May, check out Chat City on Preston FM!

~Shelagh

Thank you, I will tune into the program.

I will also, Shelagh and thanks for what you said. I've been arguing this point with people on another group for awhile now and I must say that they were beginning to make me doubt myself. I know my books are good. I mean I am a little prejudice but everyone who has read them has loved them. The comment was made to me that if you self publish a book you're not a real author but I beg to differ. Yes you are. It is up to the author to market and promote and you would have to do that no matter what venue you've chosen. I didn't really want to sign a contract with a traditional publisher yet, maybe that will come but if I can be successful with what I'm doing now, I may never go with a traditional publisher.

I know that writing is something I've always wanted to do but never did because I wasn't sure if I could. I started writing fanfictions and over 100,000 people have read my stories and loved them.

I decided to try writing a book and I was overwhelmed with the response I've gotten. Now it's my passion and has always been my dream. I'm a nurse but if I can write and make a living at this, I'd give up nursing in a heartbeat.

Writing is part of me now, and I can't imagine giving it up because some people don't think that self publishing is the way to go.

I'll definitely check out the program and thanks.

Hi, I'm new on goodreads. I'll check out the program when I can get to a broadband connection.

Let me mention that although I started out self-publishing for health reasons (I thought I was going into that good night, and wanted to leave my novels behind in book form), I have continued doing so because of the overwhelmingly good response I've received. The process is quick, I have control over the cover images, and my readers love getting autographed copies from me. I'm happy and they're happy.

Marsha Ward
THE MAN FROM SHENANDOAH, RIDE TO RATON, and TRAIL OF STORMS

I just self-published under Authorhouse, and with the exception that they were a little behind in shipping to me, I'm quite hapy with the result.

All of you are making me feel better and better. LOL!

Ok, I've got a question. I may have ask this before but I can't rememeber.

Does anyone know a good book doctor or copy editor? I wanted to get my book looked at. It's not finished yet but I'd like to get what I've done so far taken care of.

F.d. wrote: "I just self-published under Authorhouse, and with the exception that they were a little behind in shipping to me, I'm quite hapy with the result."




F.d. I'm glad you've published with Authorhouse. My second book is with them and they've done a pretty good job. I'm really just getting started with the marketing/promoting. Any advice about how I go about this?

There are several things that I have done so far that seem to generate a small audience.

First, I made up business cards, post cards, and bookmarks, with the book cover on one side and the information on the other. I got that idea from this website: http://www.booksurge.com/category/123321...

Don’t order the cards from them. Just copy the format and make them yourself.

Second, promote everywhere you go on the internet. Every social networking site you can find. I’m on Gather.com, twitter.com, facebook.com, goodreads.com (of course), and linkedin.com. I also have my own blog.

Send the word out to your family and friends, and even those you haven’t seen for years. I made a dozen or so connections on facebook.com of people I went to high school with who are buying the book, and are happy to have reconnected with me. Some thought I had died in Vietnam. It’s a crazy world out there.

Let me know if there’s anything more I can do for you. I’m always happy to assist another struggling writer.

Thanks I'll do that.

Judy does free-lance editing. Tell her Maggie sent you.

JUDITH GEARY
E-mail Address(es):
judithgeary@msn.com



Sheila wrote: "Ok, I've got a question. I may have ask this before but I can't rememeber.

Does anyone know a good book doctor or copy editor? I wanted to get my book looked at. It's not finished yet but I'd..."

Sheila wrote: "Ok, I've got a question. I may have ask this before but I can't rememeber.

Does anyone know a good book doctor or copy editor? I wanted to get my book looked at. It's not finished yet but I'd..."

You need a proof reader when you finish the book. Mine is the best.

biLL

I.G. Frederick

Sheila,

A book doctor and a copy editor perform completely different functions. A book doctor will look at your work and address systemic problems in your structure, characterization and plot (if it's fiction), marketability, etc. etc. Language is secondary.

A copy editor goes through and finds grammatical, spelling, stylistic, continuity, and language errors, etc. An editor might comment on the story, but by the time you take it to a copy editor, the book should be complete. It makes no sense to copy edit a book that you're going to rewrite because the copy editor would just have to start over.

As with many other "services" offered to writers, there are plenty of charlatans and rip off artists holding themselves out as either or both. Make sure you get references and check them.

BTW, anyone looking to order professionally printed bookmarks, postcards, etc. I highly recommend http://www.psprint.com/. Their prices are reasonable, their quality very good, and their customer service superb.

Thanks for the advice I.G.

I have published 4 books, one with Publishamerica which came out very nice. Then the next 3 books I had published with poets I know. I love the dedication they give to making your book exactly what you want it to be. These next three books I cherish more because they work with you more one on one and the final product is something to be proud of. My publishers that I hightly reccommend are , www.pfpPublishers.com

You can see on my own website. http://www.Poetesscrjussaume.com

Thanks for letting me join the group

Christina

My editor is AWESOME!!! If you are truly interested... contact me and we will go from there. Take care & best of luck.

~ ~ ~ Waving at Christina! hello hello! Hugs, Kathy

I would agree that there is a lot of presumed negativity on self-publishing. But in the past, it has always been an option, esp. for new and unknown authors. I've been to several writing conferences and heard the story of one writer that did the old way of self-publishing, 15K and printing up all the copies, the old-fashioned self-published way. Once his book was out, it got picked up later by a small publisher.

Now, self-publishing has dropped so much in price, and really can undercut the traditional publishers, more people find it as an option. Not to say that a person shouldn't go with a Traditional Publisher. I'm finding that it depends on the writing project. I've sent out a picture book to be considered by a Traditional Publisher, while I continue with preparing my second novel for self-publishing.

Self-publishing has always been an option, but the new cheaper, faster development of it is making it available for more people. I know in Traditional Publishing, the writing has to be not only good, but better, more different, and unique. There are a lot of jobs and money at stake with a project. In self-publishing, it's mostly you and maybe the sales person and layout person. Cost is saved in salary alone. But the extra people are used to develop covers that grab, marketing plans, etc. In self-publishing, you have to do this yourself. The job of 30 people, or less in smaller publishers. But then, it doesn't mean that Traditional Publishers are right in everything. There are several that turned down Harry Potter because JK Rowling was an unknown author.

I think all the self-publishing titles are giving people more options, and solving problems that the traditional publishers are facing, lowering printing costs and shipping time. The option to POD a book at independent bookstores gives them an edge over the leading(Walmart-like) bookstore chains.

The only thing I've found Traditional Publishers still have advantage of is the Marketing. They can get the word out fast and have the ablility to get their books on bookshelves. A lot of small publishers have trouble just getting their books in chain stores like B and N.
If you have a good product, or book, the customer will not care who published it. As long as they can get it and read it. Really, that is the bottom line.

I.G. Frederick

Tiffany wrote: "The option to POD a book at independent bookstores gives them an edge over the leading(Walmart-like) bookstore chains. "

Tiffany,

While most of your post has merit, this statement doesn't take into account the book selling business paradigm as it currently exists.

A small bookstores is not likely to take your book except perhaps on consignment. The reality is bookstores do NOT buy books. They sell them.

Books are essentially on loan to bookstores from publishers and bookstores can return them ANY time in ANY condition. With paperbacks, they don't even bother returning the books, just rip off the covers and send them back.

If you're self-publishing your books and want to include bookstores in your marketing plan, you must be prepared to sell on consignment and/or accept returns and the losses (since they often will not be in salable condition) they represent.

Also, even small bookstores usually only buy stock through distributors. This saves them on paperwork and the costs of that. Unless you have access to Ingram or Baker & Taylor, most bookstores -- except perhaps the one your girlfriend's mother works at in your small town -- won't even talk to you.

That's very true. I can't get ANY book stores to stock my book. POD is a stigma in the book selling business. It's going to be entirely up to you to market and distribute your book. And beleive me, it's not an easy task. I've sold a whole 70 books so far.

Marsha wrote: "Hi, I'm new on goodreads. I'll check out the program when I can get to a broadband connection.

Let me mention that although I started out self-publishing for health reasons (I thought I was going ..." I have to say, because I'm familiar with Marsha Ward's work, that a lot of the reason she has been so successful with self-publishing is because she takes great care to do it RIGHT. First, she crafts an excellent story, then she makes sure it's edited well so it's as grammatically correct as possible, ensures that her cover design is eye-catching and professional looking and then begins talking about it early, making sure that her writers' groups and others know her next book is coming. That's a brief list of some of the many things Marsha does to ensure that her self-publishing efforts succeed. She is a great example and I would encourage you to check out her books, especially her latest: Trail of Storms.

F.d. wrote: "That's very true. I can't get ANY book stores to stock my book. POD is a stigma in the book selling business. It's going to be entirely up to you to market and distribute your book. And beleive..."
I do understand that it can be a challenge to get a POD book stocked by the bookstores. But, what authors need to realize is that just getting the books stocked in the stores doesn't mean more sales. A book I worked on was "stocked" by stores, but that only meant it was in their system and not always on the shelves. And, even if a book is on the shelves, what is going to drive someone to the store to buy your book from among the many in that store? So, having the book stocked in stores does not automatically mean more sales. It still falls back to the author to beat the bushes, work the streets and use online avenues to promote their book. This is more true than ever with the state of the publishing world today.

Sheila wrote: "Ok, I've got a question. I may have ask this before but I can't rememeber.

Does anyone know a good book doctor or copy editor? I wanted to get my book looked at. It's not finished yet but I'd..."I know of an excellent book doctor and editor--ME! I have a background in technical writing and journalism and a great deal of experience in doing developmental and content editing of novels and nonfiction books as well. With that mix, I am able to help authors organize, write "tight" and eliminate material that doesn't move their story along. I'm happy to provide additional information if you'd like to e-mail me directly.

I.G. Frederick

A good resource to check out BEFORE hiring a book doctor, copy editor, etc. is

SFWA's "Writer Beware" page on the subject. http://www.sfwa.org/beware/bookdoctors.h...

You can also find pages there on other issues including pros and cons of self-publishing.

Hi everyone. I'm brand new here and happy to pull up a chair.
I hate it when you mention that your self published, peope say "Oh, well I guess you'll have thousands of your book in the garage?" (ha ha never heard that before)
No no no! What they are taking about is Vanity pubishing. You really can't take these publishers serious when they say "Your work is fantastic, give us more" but then they are shy about any costs. (high) I nearly signed with one such firm, but I read the fine print of contract. I didn't sign.
If you want published, then don't spend a penny. Keep your money for promoting, which you'll probably have to do, even if you did pay to be published.
Yeah, it's hard work, but we do it because we love it.
My other hate is when people want your hard work cheap or for nothing. Aaaaggggghh. Is it just me?

Oh, has anyone tried Book Trailers yet? I'm trying to put one together just now.
Phew, that was a lot of yapping. I'll go away now.

Hi Andy. Your post put a knowing smile on my face! Can so relate to your words "cheap" and "for nothing". I've had both a doctor and a lawyer request free copies! Now neither the doctor, nor the lawyer waived the fees they charged me!
There is a good group on trailers here at good reads. If you visit my profile you'll see it listed under groups I belong to. Dee Marie is the hostess. She does a fine job keeping things moving right along.
Nice to meet you!
Kathy

Kgcummings wrote: "Hi Andy. Your post put a knowing smile on my face! Can so relate to your words "cheap" and "for nothing". I've had both a doctor and a lawyer request free copies! Now neither the doctor, nor th..."

Nice to text you, Kathy. I had a look at your website and myspace thing. very nice indeed.
Thanks for the tip about the trailers, I'll pop over and investigate.
I saw the picture of you at a book signing. How hard is it to get into stores for book signings and were you petrified? I think I would be. Is it worth all the trouble? How do you decide how many of your books to buy from the publisher for the event?
Sorry, Kathy, I've just got too many questions. I'll slope off now and leave you in peace. "See" you soon.
warmest wishes

I've had a dozen or so book signings and have yet to have one in a book store! Petrified? Never! I love it, but have to be honest with you, I stay at my table which is not what is recommended. I do well though, and am outgoing and friendly and will talk forever if the buyer wants. I really need my safety zone. If I knew I wasn't going to sell a book, I would still go to a book signing, just for the publicity and the socializing. I do signings for fund raisers for Veterans, Zonta Clubs, handicapped children, women's clubs, and am getting recognized from one signing to the next from being in so many different areas. I was even recognized on an airplaine flying from Florida to Conn. a couple of years ago! That was a giant thrill. One day soon I will do a signing at a bookstore... yep I will!!!

As far as how many to bring, try to locate Robert Mykle on this site. He's a pro that has written a self promotion manual and conducts seminars on the topic. He's also past president of Florida Writers Assn. and knows his stuff. Personally, I bring several sets of my series and a few extra of the first novel for those just wanting to get started.

Thank you for the kind comments about my web site and MySpace. It's time to update again, but time is not at a premium this spring.
Your friend, Kathy

Hello Andy and welcome! =)

www.twitter.com/orcish_dreams

Okay I know you've heard me say this before, but Ebay US & Ebay UK are good places to promote/sell your books. You have pages to compose your ad ... describe your book. You get hits and name recognition. 2nd chance sales, and so on. It is among the best of the marketing tools. I've sold every book I've put up, and usually for more than the price on Amazon & Alibris.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fe-Fi-FOE-Comes_W0QQ...

biLL

Hi, I'm part of a writers' group in the UK. We've set up a publishing company to bring out our books. We haven't used any of the 'self-publishing' companies. We really are doing it ourselves and using a short run printer. As someone said earlier, it's not just a matter of getting shops to stock the books, you have to get the public to buy. We keep sending off press releases to various papers and trying to organise events. We've got the local papers interested in our next function at a local deli (The Deli, Farnborough, Hants.) in May. We are selecting extracts in our books about food and the deli is providing wine and nibbles, so there should be a feature about the event shortly. We hope that this will get us all valuable publicity, and that the event itself will bring along book buyers.

Jackie wrote: "Hi, I'm part of a writers' group in the UK. We've set up a publishing company to bring out our books. We haven't used any of the 'self-publishing' companies. We really are doing it ourselves and..."
Go for it Jackie. Hope you all have a great time and sell books.
Nibbles...Mmmm yum yum

My other hate is when people want your hard work cheap or for nothing. Aaaaggggghh. Is it just me?

It's most definitely not just you, Andy. Writers should be paid for their work, just like everyone else. I understand authors giving out copies of books to reviewers or bloggers for promotional reasons. But a free copy to just anyone seems to be going overboard. The exposure is nice, but . . . seems like there's got to be a limit to how much you give away. So where does one draw the line?

Thanks Andy

We've also had given some quite successful talks at libraries. One in particular arranged for forty people to come along. They had food and wine there too - works every time

Debbi wrote: "My other hate is when people want your hard work cheap or for nothing. Aaaaggggghh. Is it just me?

It's most definitely not just you, Andy. Writers should be paid for their work, just like everyon..."
I reckon on drawing the line for promo reasons (reviews etc). With the exception of giving a free copy to whomever the book is dedicated to.

Jackie wrote: "Thanks Andy

We've also had given some quite successful talks at libraries. One in particular arranged for forty people to come along. They had food and wine there too - works every time "

Jackie, I don't know where you are geographically, but in Scotland the libraries are government run. I reaally don't think they would allow food and wine. Great idea though. Has given me food for thought on other venues.

Andy,

I live in Surrey, and the libraries are run by the County Council. It was an evening thing, so didn't affect the normal day to day happenings.

Jackie wrote: "Andy,

I live in Surrey, and the libraries are run by the County Council. It was an evening thing, so didn't affect the normal day to day happenings.
Thanks Jackie, I'll certainly push out intro letter to head of libraries in the dirrerent areas; once I get the printing problem sorted out by Lulu. It sounds exciting. :D




"

I know of a printer that does small runs of books on regular presses, if anyone is interested. The minimum is a hundred. They can do a variety of things, including hardcovers. I've seen their work, it's first class. They can also provide other services, of course any time you have someone do something for you, it costs money. They do not provide editing services, but they can get your book listed with Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and the like. They can just do the printing, or much more. They're not cheap, but are reasonable for the quality.

One thing I think a lot of self publishers do is neglect quality for a good price. Quality still sells, even if people have to pay more, many will for quality. A pet peeve of mine is people and publishers that print their books in such a small print it's hell to read, especially when they don't use a bright white paper. I'm not talking large print, just reasonable for most people to read easily. When I read for pleasure, I want it to be a pleasure, not hard so difficult to read that it takes the pleasure out of it.

One thing you can do rather than being a self-publisher, is to actually become a publisher. The world doesn't have to know that you're also the publishing company. Set up an address with one of those mailbox places that can sign for packages and such, the kind that also gives you a street address. Get an 877 toll free number, Costco works with a company that provides that at very little cost. Get letterhead made, or even make it on your own computer. Look like a publisher, albeit a small press, to the world. This helps get around that self-publishing stigma. Who knows, you could even find great books to publish by other authors. Stranger things have happened.

Hello, I'm new as of today. I self-published a poetry book through BookSurge.com. the end of 2008 and it's still sitting there. "The Silver Dragon (Hepatitis Awareness Poetry) My very first book! I have no idea where to start promoting it. The writing of it was easy. I've been reading here and getting some ideas to work on. I really would like to see my book help someone by boosting their morale. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions I've read so far. Hugs, VickieG

Poetry is always a tough sell. There are things you can do, press releases, promotions, readings, things like that. location is another problem, if you're not in a large city, it's going to be a real pain to do a lot with it. You do have your own website and such don't you?

Dave wrote: "Poetry is always a tough sell. There are things you can do, press releases, promotions, readings, things like that. location is another problem, if you're not in a large city, it's going to be a re..."
I have purchased a domain name and am getting ready to start my own web site. In the meantime, I have a forum on delphi on which I post my poems and communicate with other writers. I live in a small town, rural area in TN. I have some ideas, but haven't put anything together yet as I have been getting over an illness. Thank you for your help, VickieG
Shelagh wrote: "There has been a great deal of talk among group members about self-publishing recently. I posted this message on the Fantasy forum, but received no response, so I thought I would add it here:

Pr..."

I will mark my calender. Thank you

Hey one, any of your poetry lend itself to being a song? In about ten days a friend will be back from her trip, I could probably get original music put to it. That's always the best way to make poetry sell.

I'm not sure if it would or not. What type songs does your friend sing? My poems are much like flash fiction in rhyme only shorter.

My friend is not a singer. She's a highly skilled musician and composer. Top shelf, with contacts in many genres of music. I've discussed the possibility of making one of your poems into a song, and she's willing to do it, for free, as a favor to me. I don't know your work, we'll need to find one that's got something to say, but can have an interesting melody and more importantly, a good, strong repeating hook line. The idea of doing this is to get you noticed, then your poetry will sell.

You are so nice to think of doing this for someone you don't know. It would be wonderful if I could find one I've written that suits that purpose. How do I get a poem to you? do I just post it here or send by email to you? I'll go look through my poems and see if I can find one that might work. Thanks, VickieG

Use tootall1121@yahoo.com or same at gmail.com Everybody needs a hand up when it can be offered, what goes around comes around.

ok, thank you. I'll send a few in a few minutes. I'm still looking for some more. My style may not work in song, but you can judge for yourself. VickieG

Onelildeltagirl wrote: "Hello, I'm new as of today. I self-published a poetry book through BookSurge.com. the end of 2008 and it's still sitting there. "The Silver Dragon (Hepatitis Awareness Poetry) My very first book..."
A very warm welcome to you, Vickie. Pull up a chair and warm yourself by the GoodReads fire. (I only say that 'cause it's cold here in Scotland just now.)
I really hope your book does well. I don't see why a home-grown teaser trailer can't be made for your efforts. This could be stuck on your website etc. Anything helps in promoting, unless it's poor quality. (I guess the feedback, or lack of will tell.)
I noticed when I was looking online for Chapbook/short story publishers in GB, they appeared to mostly point to poetry. You could search there for some promotion ideas.
Wishing you all the best.
Andy

Things can be made to work. One good line can be used as the hook to make it work. It all depends on the style of music that will work best. Being in Tenn. it would probably be easiest for you to do something with if it was done as modern country.