I just put my bookswim account on hold. They don't make it easy to get out of being a member. As soon as I'm finished reading the books I have out from bookswim I'm canceling the whole thing. I just need to make a list of what is in my pool. the library where I live in NJ is limited and very urban. Hopefully I will have some luck with some of the titles. Sure beats $20.00 bucks a month.

I'm sure others brought this up, but NYPL has a fantastic hold system. You can request up to 15 books to be held at whichever branch you choose. (The only negative is that you have to take all the books out that they're holding at once) I live in the East Village and live a mere five blocks away from a branch. The books are delivered to the branch far quicker than I anticipated - literary within 2-4 days. I think they hold the books for ten days so I basically stop by when I run my usual errands.

You can keep track of all of this on your LEO account online. It'll show you what postion you're in if theres a waiting list and if the book is in transit to your branch.

Best of all, it's free!!

Melissa wrote: "You can get email or phone notification on holds with NYPL if you ask for it at a library in person; it doesn't seem to be an option that you can get online, but I set it up a long time ago. "

I keep track of everything online. You can sign into your LEO account with your card number and pin number.

You can get email or phone notification on holds with NYPL if you ask for it at a library in person; it doesn't seem to be an option that you can get online, but I set it up a long time ago.

Just thought I'd check back in to report that I have canceled my Bookswim membership for several reasons, not the least of which is the vehement support for the public library I found here. I went to the library and updated my address so that they can mail me when my holds are available. I wish they would email but they don't seem to offer that option. Has this been others' experience with the NYPL system? But we can suspend our holds and we have eNYPL too. I'm excited to get to know my local library better. I'm still going to have to buy some stuff because I, like Dan, "don't limit myself to a single resource. I'll go where I can find the book" I want.

Carolyn wrote: "But Tom, you can call it free if the choice to print postage and/or DC is purely voluntary.
The operators are NOT "making a percentage off every book.", as you state, because many of the book tra..."

To be totally honest with you, since you are kind enough to take my nit-picking seriously, I sort of started losing interest in PBS last December when the owner or operator of the site sent out an email to all participants asking them to send him accounts of their favorite Christmas memories as a child. I replied that since my name is Tom Rosenthal my favorite Christmas memory as a child was when people respected others in this county and didn't impose their personal religious views on others. He replied that I could drop out of the service any time I wanted.

But Tom, you can call it free if the choice to print postage and/or DC is purely voluntary.
The operators are NOT "making a percentage off every book.", as you state, because many of the book transactions are NOT made using their postage or DC system. If PBS was forcing people to use their system to purchase postage (with it's attendant fees) in order to participate in the site, then yes, that would be 'hidden fees' and not a free system. They could easily implement this, but they don't. In addition, the vast majority of the functions of the site are 100% free (access to the database, wish lists, reminder lists, tracking, custom printed mailing labels, email notifications, forums, etc.)

You're right that I didn't count in the fee to deposit money in your PBS account in order to print the postage. But your accounting is still very specific to that one example - if you had deposited a larger sum of money in your account, you would pay a much smaller piece of it into sending each book. Economies of scale, ya know?

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with PBS tacking such a small service fee onto each electronic transaction - costs them $$ to do an EFT in the first place, and it's a flat fee, regardless of how much you transfer, not a percentage (like many banks or credit cards charge.)

So, a fee to do an EFT, regardless of how much it's for, then another very small fee to use the interface with the Post Office systems to print the postage. (Custom-built software based on ground-breaking agreements with the Post Office - don't you think they might want to recoup some cost for such a specialized service?)

Even with your example, at 76 cents for a $2.24 mailing, you are paying pretty much the same as for if you had gone into the post office, when they are open, and standing in line - but you get the big time savings of not having to do that post office stop. If your time & the convenience aren't worth that small sum, then you don't have to use those services.

Personally, I don't use the PBS postage or DC system myself. I work across the street from a post office and generally don't bother with DC when sending books. But that's me - you are free to choose to use these services or not, and while you get a LOT for free with PBS, I don't feel that they should have to do everything for free for you, especially if they incur a cost.

Since all fees are spelled out before any transaction, they aren't exactly 'hidden' either. You make the PBS folks sound so nefarious! = )

Overall, I've found PBS to be an excellent site and continue to highly recommend it.

Carolyn wrote: "Tom wrote: "There are some serious problems with PBS that are not generally discussed. For example, it costs 50-cents to buy postage to mail a book. So if you buy $4.42 to mail 2 books at mediamail..."

Curious about your math. You said there is a $.61 charge to print postage, but isn't there also a service charge on top of that to purchase the postage that you bank? That's the $.50 service charge I was refering to. I bought $5 worth of postage and it cost me 50-cents, then printed the postage and that cost 61-cents to send $2.24 by mediamail, so that's 76-cents for a $2.24 mailing. I was surprised (and disappointed) by the hidden charges. You can't really call this free when the operators are making a percentage off every book.

Tom wrote: "There are some serious problems with PBS that are not generally discussed. For example, it costs 50-cents to buy postage to mail a book. So if you buy $4.42 to mail 2 books at mediamail rate, that's more than 10% carrying charge - which is excessive. The system is built to give those who buy postage from PBS the advantage, since you automaticaly get credit for mailing a book with PBS postage. I've sent books with my own postage and not gotten credit for them. I've also requested books and not received them. It's a great concept but there are flaws that you need to be aware of."

Actually, Tom, there are flaws in every system that uses the public mail. I'm sorry you've had poor experiences, but I haven't had those problems, and I've used the site for well over 2 years now. I'm also quite aware of the minimal potential for such, but I find it a more than acceptable risk/benefit.

As for the cost, if you have a problem with the cost to use the online system to buy postage, then you might want to check your math. You can get delivery confirmation for 65 to 75 cents at the post office, which hooks you into the same system that gives you automatic credit that PBS is charging less than that for. So I'm not sure where you're getting that the charge is 'excessive' - it is less than the cost you would pay at the post office.

I'm looking at the cost screen right now for a book I need to mail out. Here's the options:

-Print Postage and Delivery Confirmation: (Fee=$.43, DC=$.18) (TOTAL = $.61 + actual postage)
-Print only Delivery Confirmation: (Fee=$.27, DC=$.18) (TOTAL = $.45)
-No Extra Services, print personalized wrapper: (FREE)

So, if you use the PBS online postage system, you get delivery confirmation built into it and pay LESS THAN the amount you would if you bought the postage and delivery confirmation at the post office.
That's no 'hidden cost' - that is a discount on the delivery confirmation and an extremely cheap service to print out your postage without going near a post office or having to wait in line!

As for sending your books with your own postage, a simple purchase of delivery confirmation at the post office OR using the PBSWAP option of "Print with DC only" would have given you the same chance at automatic credit as any other PBS user. (Might want to try it.)

While requesting books and not recieving them may be a bit frustrating, since the system is set up so that it doesn't cost you any credits or take you out of your spot on the queue, I fail to see that as a big deal. Sooner or later that book will come up and be available again.

As I said above, any system using the US Post Office as its delivery service will have some problems (based on the carrier, not the system), but the percentage of those problems are pretty minuscule compared to the number of transactions overall.

The benefits of participating in a system like PBSWAP for free is worth it to me, I'm sorry if you don't feel the same.

Carolyn wrote: "I highly recommend PaperbackSwap!

I've used it for several years now, and like the previous poster, costs nothing but the price of postage to mail your books out. You then get credits and can '..."

There are some serious problems with PBS that are not generally discussed. For example, it costs 50-cents to buy postage to mail a book. So if you buy $4.42 to mail 2 books at mediamail rate, that's more than 10% carrying charge - which is excessive. The system is built to give those who buy postage from PBS the advantage, since you automaticaly get credit for mailing a book with PBS postage. I've sent books with my own postage and not gotten credit for them. I've also requested books and not received them. It's a great concept but there are flaws that you need to be aware of.

For those of you that use Booksfree - how long did you first order take to arrive? I just signed up and am pretty excited about it but it's taking over a week for the first group to arrive - is that normal? I live in Dallas so the mail system is usually pretty quick. Appreciate any feedback - thx

Tom wrote: "Emma wrote: "There have been several posts already expanding on different methods of getting your hands on the books on the list. Someone in the What One Did You Just Start? forum asked me what I t..."

I am actually a member of Bookswim. To be perfectly honest, I would prefer going to my local library; however, the circulation at the library is such that most new/popular books are completely unavailable as there are long wait lists and many books I am looking for are "missing" or just unavailable. On a more personal note, I just can't get to the library in time because of my commute and many times have to get my dad to pick up and drop off books for me, which is annoying for him. As a result I was buying books and it got fiscally irresponsible with the number of books I go through. So while libraries are the best option, for me, Bookswim has been amazing, except for the fact that they don't carry low circulation books. But neither does my library, so that's a wash.

I may try the Booksfree option though! I don't care whether the books are in hardcover or paperback, as I can't use public transportation. But if they have low circulation books too, then I'm on board.

Emma wrote: "There have been several posts already expanding on different methods of getting your hands on the books on the list. Someone in the What One Did You Just Start? forum asked me what I think of Books..."

$14.95 a month seems awfully pricey to just borrow books. The obvious response is a public library, since you're already paying for it through your local taxes. You may also want to try a used book store. I am lucky to live near the best used book store I've ever visited. The prices are low and the books' conditions are high. You may also want to go to www.deepdiscount.com, a site that offers the lowest book prices - with no s/h charges and no taxes. There's also paperback book swap, but there are some serious problems and hidden costs with this site. Good luck.

Serena_v wrote: "Libby wrote: "Jen wrote: "Why not just use the public library? I'm sure in NYC you can get ANY of these titles. In our small library we can get books from just about anywhere in the states using ..."

I'm glad you both bring this up. All the books I read come from the library. I always find what I want. I go to the online catalog, request what I want, and pick them up when they're ready (which is usually within a couple of days if not immediately). We need to support our libraries; they are priceless resources. I can think of few more valuable services...

Exactly!

If I want to read a certain book, I don't limit myself to a single resource. I'll go where I can find the book: library, bookstore, friends and family, used bookstores, or any of multiple online sources.

Certainly, if one lives in NYC or a reasonably sized city these services are unnecessary, but, as I said above, not all of us have the luxury of great libraries.

I use my local library for books as well, but I have a bad habit of buying books- at library sales, yard sales, used book stores, etc. and these websites not only allow me to get new books for a fraction of the cost, but they allow me to pass on the books that currently take up my shelves to people who will actually read them. I also request hardcover copies of books I intend to keep and not pass along after I'm done reading them. I live in a more rural setting and sometimes bookins.com can get a book to me more quickly than my library.

Living in NYC, I guess I really don't see the point of these services. Since the New York Public Library is the library service with the most branches in the entire world. there's always a library near me. And it's incredibly easy, as others have said, to put books on hold and have them delivered directly to your local branch. It might take a while if it's a new title, but I think it's worth the wait if it's free.

I'm using Bookins.com Very similar to bookswap or paperbackswap, I think, but sending books is free and you pay a flat $4.49 for every book you receive. Bookins has audio books and DVDs now, too. I've been a member almost 2 years and have never been disappointed.

I like Booksfree also. I've been teased/reprimanded for using it over my local library. But I too don't have the best library. There have been a few books I've wanted that they haven't had, and I wish they had a better recommendation setup, but otherwise good. I had one set of books get lost, and had to wait the 14 days before I could post a complaint, but they fixed it right away once I'd waited the requisite time. Of course, about a month later the Post Office finally delivered the original books, so I just sent them back. No harm, no foul.

I started using Booksfree.com in February and have loved it so far. I get 4 books at a time and pay $15 a month. It's been well worth it for me since I live out in the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire and the library here isn't the greatest. The shipping time isn't too bad and they have a large selection of paperback books. I've been very pleased with Booksfree.com!

Hello, I belong to Bookswim, but I'm starting to find that Booksfree.com which is exactly like Bookswim is cheaper with more titles available. The only difference between the two is that Booksfree is cheaper 2 books for 9.95 and they are all paperback where Bookswim will ship hardcovers although more expensive. I thinking twice about Bookswim, due to the fact that booksfree are cheaper and you can have more books on queque. I hope this helps

Libby wrote: "Actually I had no idea that many public libraries had that - I'll have to check it out. Thanks for sharing!

"

Oh fantastic, I hope yours has it too. Mine enters books into the system even before they're published. So if I have a favorite author with a new book coming out in a few months I'll get on the hold list right away. There's even ways to search for books on order (for my library you go to 'advanced search' and enter "on order" as the Call Number). I've been pleasantly surprised using this search to find books, in categories I like, ahead of the publication date.

I love my public library! If a book I want is at another branch they will send it to my local branch and I just have to go to the desk to pick it up. I do everything (requests and renewals) online.

I get a ton of the classics for free for my Sony Reader. I'd say a good 200 on this list I was able to get for free legally. Between that and my library I think I've only bought two books on the list.

Libby wrote: "Actually I had no idea that many public libraries had that - I'll have to check it out. Thanks for sharing!

"

Oh yeah, we're awesome! And we need the support of people like you!

Serena, my library has all the same features as well, which is one reason I'm a huge library-book reader. Ditto with the e-book features, though I'm not a convert to those.

I primarily use PBS to pick up copies of books that I want to keep, I've usually read it already from the library. = )

Actually I had no idea that many public libraries had that - I'll have to check it out. Thanks for sharing!

Libby wrote: "Jen wrote: "Why not just use the public library? I'm sure in NYC you can get ANY of these titles. In our small library we can get books from just about anywhere in the states using ILL. Seems li..."

Keep in mind that most public libraries have become quite easily accessible through the internet. A trip to the local branch of my library is generally about 2 minutes as I dash in the door, return anything I'm returning and go to the "hold shelf" to pickup whatever I've reserved online. It's not so much hit-and-miss anymore; spending lots of time at your branch, hoping they have a certain title on the shelf that particular day. You go online and place a hold on the title and they email you when it's at your local branch (all my books are there together on a "hold shelf" near the front door, so it really is a 2 second process to grab them, scan them and get back outside) waiting for you to pick it up.

My library system has a feature where you can freeze your holds (all of them or specific titles) if you aren't ready yet for a certain book or books. So you can get on the hold list and move up in line as normal, but when the book is ready they will give it to the next person in line until you unfreeze your request. And then you're first in line when a copy becomes available. My library system allows 20 holds per person and I utilize this feature to the fullest.

If you request a title for which no one else is waiting, it just takes a day or two before they email you and it's waiting at your local branch.

Anyway, sorry if this is old news to anyone, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Many libraries also now offer digital downloads of books and audio books. If there's a title with a long wait list, or something I'm not sure I will like, I often grab the digital download and get started with it on my computer screen or palm pilot. If you're interested in portable digital books, you don't have to spend money on Kindle versions; you can get many of the same titles free from the library to use on most PDAs.

I highly recommend PaperbackSwap!

I've used it for several years now, and like the previous poster, costs nothing but the price of postage to mail your books out. You then get credits and can 'spend' them to get books from the database. When you first sign up you get several free credits to 'spend' (if you decide to sign up, please let them know that userID 'seeford' referred you. = ) You can specify whether you want paperbacks, hardcovers or audio books, which is nice as well.

All the convenience of through the mail tied to an absolutely huge database of books - for FREE!
I love the Wishlist and Reminder List capability as well, before I found GoodReads, PBS was my primary book site (it has forums, reviews, etc.) The system is highly automated and emails you when books you've wishlisted are available with reminders, and creates a customized mailing wrapper for each book.

Also, if you like PBS, you may also be interested in it's sister sites: DVDswap and/or CDswap - both are run along similar lines.

I don't use bookswim because some months I read fewer books than other months so I don't feel the $15 is worth it for those months. I use bookswap.com and like it quite a bit. Its onyl the cost of postage to send out books.

Jen wrote: "Why not just use the public library? I'm sure in NYC you can get ANY of these titles. In our small library we can get books from just about anywhere in the states using ILL. Seems like a lot of ..."

My guess is that Bookswim is popular due to convenience. I love the public library but don't have time to get there. I'm considering this as a gift for my sister who had a 18 month old. She is trying to squeeze reading into what little free time she had ;-)

Thanks for the info. I think I'll try it out.

Why not just use the public library? I'm sure in NYC you can get ANY of these titles. In our small library we can get books from just about anywhere in the states using ILL. Seems like a lot of work and money for something you can get for free.

There have been several posts already expanding on different methods of getting your hands on the books on the list. Someone in the What One Did You Just Start? forum asked me what I think of Bookswim so I thought I'd start a new topic.

http://www.bookswim.com/

Bookswim is a service like Netflix for books. My plan, which may no longer be available for new members, is that I pay $14.99 a month and I get 2 books at a time. When I've read my 2 books, I have to send them back together and wait for 2 more books. I look at this in-between time as an opportunity to squeeze in the books I've received as gifts or some unplanned reading. But if I'm not reading very quickly, I often find myself thinking, I certainly could have found these books used for less than I'm paying Bookswim. Also, I don't have to send the books back: I can opt to keep them and buy them outright, but often, Libby, they are not in great condition and if I decided I wanted to keep the books, I'd probably try to find them new or even used somewhere without the Bookswim promotional and cataloging stickers. But I like that, and this is important in NYC, I'm not accumulating books for which I then have to find homes, and I'm paying for the convenience I love of having them shipped to and from me. That's included in the monthly fee.

I currently have these list books in my Bookswim Pool:
Everything Is Illuminated: A Novel
by Jonathan Safran Foer

The Woman in White (Giant Thrifts)
by Wilkie Collins

The Handmaid's Tale
by Margaret Atwood

Cloud Atlas: A Novel
by David Mitchell

Interview with the Vampire
by Anne Rice

The Plot Against America
by Philip Roth

White Noise (Penguin Great Books of the 20th Century)
by Don DeLillo

The Inheritance of Loss
by Kiran Desai

Reasons to Live
by Amy Hempel

Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day (Persephone Classics)
by Winifred Watson

Cranford (Penguin Classics)
by Elizabeth Gaskell

The Golden Notebook: A Novel
by Doris Lessing

The Count of Monte Cristo (Penguin Classics)
by Alexandre Dumas père

Les Misérables (Signet Classics)
by Victor Hugo

Don Quixote
by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Crime and Punishment
by Fyodor Dostoevsky

The Reader (Movie Tie-in Edition) (Vintage International)
by Bernhard Schlink

But more obscure titles, and even not so obscure titles, are harder to find on Bookswim. Neither the March or April reads were available. And the funny thing is that I know City of God used to be in my Pool. I think they've made some changes to better guarantee availability and I worry that that means that they have eliminated some lower circulation books. I think however that the more people request a book, the more likely they are to add it.

Oh, and you don't know if you will get a hard- or paperback book in many cases. I have the Cider House Rules at home right now from Bookswim and it's going to be difficult to take on the subway when I do crack it open as they sent me the hardcover edition.

However, the couple of times I've contacted them they have been super nice and helpful. (Twice I've had to ask them to remove a book from my top 2 books because they lock the next shipment down so they have time to purchase your titles and reserve them for you, making sure that your top books aren't sent to someone else in the meantime.)