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Writer's Circle > Tate Publishing??? I need some input to make a decision.

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message 351: by [deleted user] (new)

Reyna's Mom, I respectfully disagree with you on that. I apologize for accusing you of slander, but in my personal opinion you seem to not understand the complete facts on Tate Publishing. They ask for a retainer fee because it's for a publicist. If the author has one then it doesn't need to be paid. I didn't have a publicist so I have paid the fee which in fact was cut down exceedingly. So in reality I have only paid maybe $2000 at most. Also part of marketing a book calls for the author's own willingness as well. A publisher helps get it out there, but an author needs to be willing to do their part.

As for A.W. I disagree with you as well. My comments above give my reasoning as to why. Plus after selling a 1,000 books I get my money back paid in full along with every royalty earned stated in the contract. I did my research thoroughly on Tate Publishing so don't accuse me of trying to make out that every publisher charges money because they do. I have looked it up and done my research. I will be more then willing to speak with you about post-publication if that's what will help you be a little more open-minded. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or rude, so I ask that any of you not be offended by my comments. This is a wonderful discussion that I'm sure has helped many see that Tate isn't a right fit for them. They were for me and I'm grateful for the opportunity I have with them. If in the long run I end up going to a different publisher for my other book ideas then great! If not then I will be happy to share good and bad experiences with you all.


message 352: by A.W. (last edited Jun 09, 2014 02:26PM) (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments K R wrote: "don't accuse me of trying to make out that every publisher charges money because they do"

No they don't. I am with a small press, they don't charge a dime. Zero. Nada. I don't know how much plainer to make that? I know other authors with reputable small presses, again not charged a cent. You are the one stating that all presses charge to publish when that simply isn't true.

That's great that you will break even after selling 1,000 books. I turned a profit on book 1. As you said, you have your eyes open and know the path you want to take. Nobody is being rude about your choice, we are simply trying to correct misinformation so everybody can similarly make up their own mind.

I wish you success and would love to discuss figures post publication. Yes I am curious what $4,000 of marketing achieves, as nobody who has paid the fee will respond - which leaves the matter open to speculation (the main one being people have been scammed). Perhaps open communication and discussion about Tate's reach and sales results would go some way to ally people's concerns?


message 353: by [deleted user] (new)

A. W. I said the ones I have researched are the ones who ask for money. Did I not make that clear? I'm sorry I didn't come across the publisher you have chosen, but what I found they ask for a fee.
Good for you in making a profit! That's awesome and I would love to hear about your book and others if you have written more.


message 354: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments K R wrote: "Reyna's Mom, I respectfully disagree with you on that. I apologize for accusing you of slander, but in my personal opinion you seem to not understand the complete facts on Tate Publishing. They ask..."

Every publisher does not charge. I have a publisher, and they do not charge me, although they do pay me. I might add that I'm with a small press, not one of the household name ones. Most authors do not have publicists, and most publishers don't care if you have one or not. Requiring you to purchase professional services through them is one of the hallmarks of a vanity press.

You may or may not be happy with Tate, but their practices are not industry standard, and more relevantly, are not in line with those of a selective publisher. One thousand books before you see any paycheck at all is a very high number. You should be able to make money on every single book you sell.


message 355: by Reyna's Mom (new)

Reyna's Mom (ReynasMom) | 18 comments K R wrote: "Reyna's Mom, I respectfully disagree with you on that. I apologize for accusing you of slander, but in my personal opinion you seem to not understand the complete facts on Tate Publishing. They ask..."

I cannot say this enough. You are misrepresenting the publishing industry. Your experience with Tate does not represent trade publishing.

A reputable publisher will not charge an author. The end.


message 356: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments And if for some reason you wish to use a vanity press rather than a free platform such as CreateSpace or submit to selective publishers, there are ones who are forthright about what they are charging you for.


message 357: by A.W. (last edited Jun 09, 2014 02:49PM) (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments K R wrote: "A. W. I said the ones I have researched are the ones who ask for money."

I don't know where you were searching for publishers, when I was querying I never encountered any that charged. For those writers who are looking QueryTracker has an extensive list of publishers and not a single one will charge anything.

http://querytracker.net/publishers.php

Also, could you clarify this: K R wrote: "Plus after selling a 1,000 books I get my money back paid in full along with every royalty earned "

Are you saying you have a 100% e-book and print royalty rate?


message 358: by Roderick (new)

Roderick Hart | 25 comments Judy wrote: "I've never heard of a legitimate publisher with a reading fee.

Realize that even some of the big houses (Harlequin, Simon and Schuster) have opened up vanity imprints as a way to make money off o..."


Yes. I have seen this referred to as 'monetizing their slush pile', which seems an apt description.


message 359: by Cindy (last edited Jun 11, 2014 09:12PM) (new)

Cindy Amrhein (HistorySleuth) | 55 comments The odds of selling 1000 books with a vanity press like Tate is slim. I don't see making back the $4000 investment. I'm also curious as to retail price. Many of the authors that complain about Tate say the retail price is too high for the size of the book, which results in little or no sales.


message 360: by Dayanara (last edited Jun 11, 2014 08:01AM) (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I can't believe the amount of people here who call themselves "authors" that are drinking the Tate kool-aid. (Yes, I know that's offensive to people who lost family and friends at Jonestown, but unless and until another term is coined, deal with it!)

We shout from the rooftops that it's NOT OKAY TO GIVE A PUBLISHER YOUR MONEY (unless you're working with Amazon and willingly paying for the extras), yet morons still come through in herds of sheeple saying, "Oh, I have four thousand dollars to throw around...I'm fine with it."

Corine is an absolute moron. "I can always rearrange my budget and find money." Really, Little Miss Rich *Bleep*?! How about those of us who are basically starving artists and would be living on the streets if it weren't for foodstamps and kind family members? What are we supposed to do, stop writing because we're "not good enough"? HARDLY!

And KR claimed that we're "slandering" Tate? Tate is a money-grubbing company who repeatedly lies to its employees and treats them so poorly, it makes fast food look like a good industry. You're LDS, huh? Guess what, Miss Priss? I was raised Catholic--the very first Christian denomination, as you may remember--and even I say, "TATE SUCKS and they do NOT act like good Christians!"

Up to this point, I've loved interacting with all of you on this thread, but this is too much. I am beyond tired of the ignorant masses who come in and repeatedly ignore what we say. I am OUT! Have fun cliff-jumping, you passle of lemmings!


message 361: by Honest Review (new)

Honest Review For You (honestreviewforyou) | 1 comments WARNING: Stay away from Tate Publishing! I received an offer from their CEO, Ryan Tate which included several misspellings. Yep. They are like children still struggling to find their balance after how many years?; so: do not let them get a hold of you! They will promise you the World and deliver only 1 leaf, not even a branch. Honest Review For You!


message 362: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Amrhein (HistorySleuth) | 55 comments Koolaid indeed! Go over to the writer's site AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler to the Bewares, Recommendations, Background Checks thread on Tate. Complaints by authors going back TEN years. How can that not be enough proof to stay well away from them?
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/s...


message 363: by Thomas (new)

Thomas (Thomasrichardson) | 27 comments I wrote a blog post about my own writing and publishing experiences, and why I think vanity publishers (even legitimate ones) are a bad idea. My post is mainly about Dorrance Publishing, but Tate gets some of the "love" too.

https://tomhrichardson.wordpress.com/...


message 364: by Carmen (new)

Carmen Amato (authorcarmenamato) | 73 comments Thomas, a well reasoned blog post. Vanity publishers like Dorrance and Tate face stiff competition because it is easy to publish and do it well without their help. You'd think they would at least have quality and savvy on their side but it doesn't sound like that is so.


message 365: by Sterling (new)

Sterling Walker | 12 comments I would add Black Rose Writing to the list of unscrupulous vanity publishers. Fortunately, I was able to get out of my contract because they were under reporting my sales. I wasn't even selling that many books because BWR priced them well above market value, but they were still robbing me when I did sell any. I'm doing much better with sales on Createspace.


message 366: by Reyna's Mom (new)

Reyna's Mom (ReynasMom) | 18 comments Sterling wrote: "I would add Black Rose Writing to the list of unscrupulous vanity publishers. Fortunately, I was able to get out of my contract because they were under reporting my sales. I wasn't even selling tha..."

The price that vanity publishers put on books is just another reason most people will never recoup their costs. I looked at some of Tate's titles. The ebooks are usually priced at 9.99 and the physical copy averages around $16. Very few readers will pay that much for a book by an unknown author. Especially when many established bestselling authors sell their ebooks for around $5-$7.


message 367: by [deleted user] (new)

Sterling, I agree. I also opted out of my contract with Black Rose. They're bad news.


message 368: by Bradford (new)

Bradford Smith (BradfordSmith) | 38 comments Rena, guess my how-to book is an exception. I just reached one thousand sales, 802 paperbacks priced from $15-17 and 203 eBooks priced at $9.99

It was my first book, self - published through CreateSpace. I did everything myself including photography, formatting, editing and cover. Also developed my own platform of social media, email lists, speaking engagements and a column carried by 213 newsletters.


message 369: by Reyna's Mom (new)

Reyna's Mom (ReynasMom) | 18 comments Bradford wrote: "Rena, guess my how-to book is an exception. I just reached one thousand sales, 802 paperbacks priced from $15-17 and 203 eBooks priced at $9.99

It was my first book, self - published through Crea..."


If you write in a genre where that price is the norm, than I can certainly understand. Erotica, as well, sells at a higher price point.

Christian literature, however, does not sell at that price. Take a look at the bestsellers. They are all 2.99 or lower.


message 370: by J.J. (new)

J.J. Lair | 30 comments I read some of the posts here. I wish this existed a decade or longer ago because in the ten or fifteen years, I met so many people that got burned by vanity publishers. In some cases, they got burned just because they didn't know better. They thought this was how publishing worked. Those companies have better writers doing their contracts than doing their manuscripts.
I don't see how anyone could make their investment back when working with these companies. They made their money off the initial money from the authors.
Somehow, even though sights like this exist, these companies are still out there and they seem to be making money.


message 371: by Carmen (new)

Carmen Amato (authorcarmenamato) | 73 comments The business model for all of the publishers listed in this thread is to make money off selling services to the author, not from selling books. Nobody should be confused on this point. The bulk of the marketing effort is directed at authors, not readers. Their prices are set high in order to recoup the printing costs. The smaller the print run, the higher the cost per book. They anticipate that they will not sell a significant number of books. Infinity is another such publisher.


message 372: by Roderick (new)

Roderick Hart | 25 comments Carmen wrote: "The business model for all of the publishers listed in this thread is to make money off selling services to the author, not from selling books. Nobody should be confused on this point. The bulk of ..."

You have it in a nutshell.


message 373: by J.J. (new)

J.J. Lair | 30 comments Carmen wrote: "The business model for all of the publishers listed in this thread is to make money off selling services to the author, not from selling books. Nobody should be confused on this point. The bulk of ..."

I agree and you said it much better than I did.


message 374: by J. (new)

J. (JGuenther) | 128 comments I assume you all know what sock puppets are?


message 375: by Roderick (new)

Roderick Hart | 25 comments Yes. Why do you ask?


message 376: by Richard (new)

Richard Sutton (RichardSutton) | 115 comments Another great online resource is Absolute Write: Water Cooler discussions, particularly "Predators and Editors" It's been running for many years now and has some really excellent warnings.


message 377: by J. (new)

J. (JGuenther) | 128 comments Roderick wrote: "Yes. Why do you ask?"

Certain commenters here have lost patience with the novices who refuse to accept that they have fallen victim to a publishing scam. The reality is, there are probably no such novices commenting here at all. The worst scammers comb the internet, looking for negative statements about them, then create false identities to contradict such comments. In most cases, those identities have never published, have never posted before, and never appear again, once the thread ends. Don't waste your breath.


message 378: by Jeri (new)

Jeri | 2 comments I am in the middle of publishing a book with Tate Publishing. I am supplying the illustrations (making an opportunity for a talented friend) and the initial people I worked with were wonderful. UNTIL, I was assigned to my Project Manager. It has been a nightmare. I finally sent an email to the my Project Manager's supervisor asking for a new person--was willing to go to the end of the line and start over, that's how bad it has been. I have sent him documentation that showing the problems and even documenting that he has misrepresented things to his boss. We'll see what happens.

But, it has been horrible. If I go on, it will just sound like a rant.

That said, I have heard stories like that from regular publishing houses. However, Tate Publishing is on the Predatory publishing house list--keep that in mind.

Think twice. Do your due diligence (which I did and found an acquaintance who had a wonderful experience) than do your best--meanwhile collect lemonade recipes in case your experience is like mind.


message 379: by Jeri (new)

Jeri | 2 comments James,

Tate Publishing voided the contract because they couldn't "get it right" without $900. Yikes. I am entering this stage next. Please keep us updated.


message 380: by G. (new)

G. Smith Hello! This is my first time commenting on a thread on Goodreads. I'll admit, I haven't read all the comments on this thread but I still wanted to point something out. I originally published through a vanity press, spent 1K total. I did my research, no complaints listed, was listed as a decent value through some 'reputable' writer sites (which I now know they are not). Somewhere along the process I asked for them to email a copy of the completed/formatted file...which they did.
Now, after a year of being with them and not being credited for sales in over 9 months, I've decided and am trying to cancel the contract. While waiting for them to respond to my cancellation request, I began to work on the file to strip their names from it and correct one typo (they would have charged me about $50 to correct). Low and behold, the file was password protected and they wouldn't give me the code. After having a software guru play with it, he stripped the code off and...There's a second author lock set that I can't bypass and they have embedded a bunch of garbage in the file.
Although I'm happy to have a book out there, I feel that the finished product should be mine and should be useable. For anyone that is using a publishing company/press that you've paid for upfront, you may want to make sure that what you've paid for is still useable in the future.


message 381: by Bonita (new)

Bonita Buie | 1 comments I need some advice. Tate sent me a marketing contract on a book that has already been published by Strategic{that publishing company is another story}. Should I allow Tate to market my book? 55% for me, 45% for them. Is that a good deal?

Bonita


message 382: by A.W. (last edited Aug 26, 2014 03:11PM) (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Bonita wrote: "Should I allow Tate to market my book? 55% for me, 45% for them. Is that a good deal?"

No. If you have your rights back from one shonky publisher why would you then want to hand them over to another? If you self publish you can keep 100% of your royalties.


message 383: by Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) (last edited Aug 26, 2014 03:18PM) (new)

Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) I didn't read back through this whole thread so I may be duplicating a link; but, http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/f... has some good definitions for "...Commercial publishers, subsidy publishers, vanity publishers, self-publishing–what’s the difference?..." if that helps anyone.

Some of the big 5 and mainstream commercial publishers will also now have their own self-publishing arms/imprints to confuse matters.

Some aggregators of publishing services, like Smashwords and Lulus, are odd mixtures, too. From what non-author me understands you can choose what services you want to use from just publishing to help distributing in multiple formats with those types of "publishers."

If going through amazon's Createspace, they do offer (last I checked it was a $25 fee) an expanded distribution that puts your book on some of the same distribution as Lightning Source (including the Ingram/Onix feed some brick and mortar bookstores and sites like goodreads and Leafmarks use). That said, I'm not sure self-published authors will see a lot of sales to brick and mortar bookstores outside of those supporting local authors, local interest or very esoteric needs.

Again, not an author. In fact, most of what I know about publishers has come about from using their sites when doing librarian edits. But, that Writer's Beware link made sense to me. And has a lot of links, warning signs, and stuff to test or look for.


message 384: by Reyna's Mom (new)

Reyna's Mom (ReynasMom) | 18 comments *headesk*

That's really all I've got. If someone reads this entire thread and still considers Tate a viable option, then more power to you.


message 385: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Reyna's Mom wrote: "*headesk*

That's really all I've got. If someone reads this entire thread and still considers Tate a viable option, then more power to you."


But Tate will only cost you $4,000 and they only take half your royalties! Isn't that a bargain? ;)

(we need a sarcasm font BTW)


message 386: by Lee (new)

Lee Dunning (maraich) | 54 comments D.A.-bully victims suffer more than a ★ on their commercial product wrote: "I didn't read back through this whole thread so I may be duplicating a link; but, http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/f... has some good definitions for "...Commercial ..."

Creatspace doesn't charge for expanded distribution, you're just limited to which ISBNs you use. You have to use their free ISBN that comes with the Createspace imprint. If you buy your own ISBN then you can't take advantage of the expanded distribution.


message 387: by Norm (last edited Aug 27, 2014 08:02AM) (new)

Norm Hamilton (normhamilton) | 153 comments Lee wrote: "Creatspace doesn't charge for expanded distribution, you're just limited to which ISBNs you use. You have to use their free ISBN that comes with the Createspace imprint. If you buy your own ISBN then you can't take advantage of the expanded distribution.

Not quite accurate, Lee. If you use your own ISBN at Createspace you can still take advantage of the Expanded Distribution, but cannot add the Libraries and Academic Institutions. To add them you must have a Createspace ISBN.

I added From Thine Own Well to the Expanded Distribution and it found its way to Amazon.ca within days, something that hadn't happened for over a year. That was only about 10 days ago.

Norm Hamilton, Writer, Copy-Editor, Proofreader
Author of From Thine Own Well , Sarah’s Embrace , The Digital Eye
Website
Email


message 388: by Lee (new)

Lee Dunning (maraich) | 54 comments Norm wrote: "Lee wrote: "Creatspace doesn't charge for expanded distribution, you're just limited to which ISBNs you use. You have to use their free ISBN that comes with the Createspace imprint. If you buy your..."

Oh, that's right - thank you for clarifying.


message 389: by Judy (last edited Aug 27, 2014 08:38AM) (new)

Judy (Judy5cents) | 28 comments A legitimate publisher makes money entirely from book sales. When an author has to pay money upfront to get his or her book published, you don't need a degree in economics to see that there's more money to be made in charging authors $4000 a head than in selling the books they write. Because there's a whole lot more people out there with books they want to publish than there are readers who want to buy books by authors they've never heard of.

Even with professional editing, formatting and cover design, you can still self publish for well under $4000. And you get to keep all your royalties.

I have not read the entire thread either, so someone else may have mentioned this site, but I'd like to recommend Preditors and Editors, http://pred-ed.com/. They have a list of publishers and agents and will tell you in most cases what genres the publisher accepts and whether they charge fees or offer bad contracts.

I stumbled on this site back in 2002 and I believe it saved me a world of heartache. I was able to find a publisher that edited my book, designed the cover and printed it all at their own expense. I didn't pay them a dime for anything. Because my publisher expected my book to make money for both of us. Offhand, I can't say what my total sales are, but I'm reasonably sure I haven't hit 1000 yet.


message 390: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Amrhein (HistorySleuth) | 55 comments It's always worth repeating Judy. Before you sign, check Predators & Editors, Writer Beware, and the background check threads at AbsoluteWrite water cooler forums.


Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) Plus if you are paying a publishing company there will always be others also happy to be paid. Doesn't hurt to do some research before committing your funds and your book rights.


message 392: by Kayla (last edited Oct 01, 2014 08:22PM) (new)

Kayla | 3 comments Hey everyone. I've been skimming the posts on here, trying to figure out what I should do about publishing. I too was offered a contract with Tate, and then along with the option to pay the $4000, there were other options. They gave me a $500 "self-marketing contract" choice, or a $1000 or a $2000 or the $4000. I was seriously considering the $500 one, but I decided I would go with the $1000, so I could have some marketing. Did anyone else get any of these offers? They were very up front with me, putting all of these options in their acceptance letter. I'm just trying to decide if I should still stick with them or pull out. They were very flexible with payments. I had to pay some to hold the contract, so when I signed I gave them $50, so that's all I have given them so far. I was told that once I have put in $500 they can go forward with the publication process, and I have another 6 months to pay them the last $500. They haven't bothered me for a month, and just the other day they asked if I would like to make a payment. Any suggestions yay or nay?


message 393: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments Kayla wrote: "Hey everyone. I've been skimming the posts on here, trying to figure out what I should do about publishing. I too was offered a contract with Tate, and then along with the option to pay the $4000, ..."
Personally, I would say nay. Rather emphatically. Legitimate selective publishers don't require you to pay anything up front. It can be difficult to interest a selective publisher, but real ones get paid when you do. A "vanity" press, such as Tate, makes money off of author's payments. Most of the time self-publishing is a much better option than a vanity press. It's not all that difficult, and you can get quite a lot of advice on here.

If you really prefer not to do that, there are more reputable vanity presses, such as the ones associated with legitimate publishers. They won't do much to sell your book either, but they won't pretend to market it, and you should receive the editorial services you've paid for.


message 394: by Kayla (new)

Kayla | 3 comments Thank you for your reply! Am I able to dissolve my contract? I don't have any real grounds to as of right now, so how would I go about that? At least I have only put in $50. I hope I am able to get that back. But if not, at least it isn't more.


message 395: by Ken (new)

Ken (kendoyle) | 323 comments Kayla, I agree with D.C. It's unfortunate that you've already given them $50, but it's better to cut your losses now and walk away.


message 396: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments Kayla wrote: "Thank you for your reply! Am I able to dissolve my contract? I don't have any real grounds to as of right now, so how would I go about that? At least I have only put in $50. I hope I am able to get..."

I don't know enough about contractual law to advise on that, especially since contracts vary a lot and so do state laws. I would probably start by telling them that you want out, and don't intend to pay them any more. Ideally you should have a lawyer look over contracts before you sign them (although I don't take my own advice).


message 397: by Kayla (new)

Kayla | 3 comments Ok thanks!


message 398: by Richie (last edited Oct 05, 2014 09:36AM) (new)

Richie | 3 comments I've read about half of all these comments because a personal friend signed with Tate and I was just wondering what he got himself into. I have a good idea now.

One thing that amazes me is how many people think they are authors, but they don't know how to spell correctly or write grammatically. So, they turn to Tate just to get the bugs out. It's an expensive service, that's for sure. Especially considering all the horror stories about inadequate proofreading, etc.

I was encouraged by the comments about small-scale niche publishers, and I've ordered a copy of "Writer's Market" to get more information.

I've been using CreateSpace this year and I'm completely amazed that they can produce such beautiful books at such a cheap price. I use lots of color illustrations, often on each page, and they have been printed quite well and without any limitations. I have no expectations of being a financially successful author, but I find great satisfaction in producing the six or seven books I've completed this year. Fortunately, I can afford to distribute books to Libraries and friends and not have to worry about the cost. I've even sold a few.

The point here is that you can spend a lot of money on a fruitless pursuit of fame and fortune, or spend a little and find true satisfaction. The latter is my choice, and I hope it works for you.


message 399: by Jacqueline (new)

Jacqueline Donna Varlotta (JacquelineVarlotta) | 13 comments Hi Richie: I too used createspace to publish my second book. They did a good job and were very nice. I write because I love to write. I am not looking to be a wealthy author - I just want to share my stories with whomever might want to read them. What are your books about? I have published two books this year and I am about to publish my third - would you be interested in doing a review for me? - Jackie


message 400: by Richie (new)

Richie | 3 comments Jacqueline, I think the best way for me to answer your question about a review would be to first look at your books on Amazon to check out the subjects and take a peak inside the book. That will enable me to decide if I want to go further. So, why don't you give me the titles here and I'll have a look.

Also, thanks for the interest in my own writing. I'm creating histories right now, mostly of my home town. For example, I'm collecting information now on our local airport. If no one writes these local histories, it will just all fade away. So I'm cherry picking the topics that seem most important to me.


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