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Writer's Circle > Tate Publishing??? I need some input to make a decision.

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message 251: by Mack (new)

Mack Moore | 14 comments Dayanara wrote: "They didn't want me that badly, then, because they never made me the lower offer. (I couldn't afford that, either, but it's just the theory.)"

They offered me a free marketing and distribution contract, although I I got the feeling it wasn't free lol! They were trying to charge me for their "services."


message 252: by Tameka (new)

Tameka Johnson | 26 comments Dayanara wrote: "They didn't want me that badly, then, because they never made me the lower offer. (I couldn't afford that, either, but it's just the theory.)"

I think it also depends on your sales rep. If your rep was HITTING HIS?HER SALES goals, then they will not offer you that.


message 253: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I must have had a superstar sales gal, then, because she didn't offer me any sort of discount.


message 254: by Mark (new)

Mark Eytcheson | 5 comments I looked through this forum before accepting an offer from Tate to publish my book. I had self-published and had printed a few copies for friends and had submitted to several publishers. My book is an extensive study of love from the New Testament that references every verse where the word "love" appears. Several Christian publishers that I submitted to told me there were too many scriptures in it and that I had to cut the size of it. Tate contacted me and said they were interested in publishing my book. They asked for no money up-front and offered a marketing rep for free, offered to handle production and distribution and I could buy my own copies at cost. I could find no downside in their contract and they have been pleasant to work with. I already had a cover and formatted copy, so maybe that is the difference from what I see others seem to have experienced. My book is due to be released Feb 25th and I have been very happy dealing with them. Maybe this is a different Tate Publishing?


message 255: by Dayanara (last edited Feb 02, 2014 03:19PM) (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Mark wrote: "They asked for no money up-front and offered a marketing rep for free, offered to handle production and distribution and I could buy my own copies at cost."

My first red flag is that they contacted you. I'm sure other Good Readers agree--unless you're a celebrity, legitimate companies don't come to you, you go to them.

My second is that your experience is so perfect in comparison to mine and the others listed on this 5.5 page thread, it's either fake or too good to be true.

I imagine you'll discover that they won't market squat, just like everyone else says. I was hoping to release Early One Morning to tie in with Son of God hitting theaters, but I didn't have four grand to pay. I went with Amazon, released in October and am as happy as ever. I still wish they offered hardcovers, as I'm getting ready to send autographed books to the Bible cast, but I guess that's what Lulu is for.


message 256: by Mark (new)

Mark Eytcheson | 5 comments I guess I have to wait to see what marketing they will do. I am not sure how much any publisher puts into marketing for a new author these days. I expect to do most of the marketing myself, just as if I was continuing to self-publish. As for if it is fake, it seems real to me so far. Since it did not cost me anything (yet), I think I am safe trying it out. I will be setting up my website soon to sell my own copies, since they said they have no issue with that, they just reserved the rights to be the sole seller via Amazon and booksellers etc.


message 257: by Mark (new)

Mark Eytcheson | 5 comments At the time I looked into Amazon a couple years ago, they were charging a good bit to publish. It would have cost me a couple thousand up front for them to do my book. I will have to look into it again if they have dropped those fees.


message 258: by Angela (new)

Angela Misri (KarmicAngel) | 9 comments I agree with Dayara! Be careful!


message 259: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I first published with Amazon when CreateSpace was introduced. (And I emphasize "CreateSpace"...not whatever it used to be.) Unless you want all the bells and whistles (professional cover, reviews, handouts, etc.), there is no cost.


message 260: by Mack (new)

Mack Moore | 14 comments Mark wrote: "At the time I looked into Amazon a couple years ago, they were charging a good bit to publish. It would have cost me a couple thousand up front for them to do my book. I will have to look into it a..."

Hello there Mark. I just want to say be careful. I too had received an offer from Tate. The same exact offer you received. All I can say is that they were trying to charge me for services, such as editing, book cover, layout...even though the marketing and distribution was free. With help I took care of that, but they were trying to stall with my book. Tate isn't a good company, but Lord willing hopefully you won't have any issues with them.

I had got released from my contract a few weeks ago, but out of nowhere I get an email from them talking about they are waiting for my book cover.
Irony? They want a cover from me and I'm no longer signed with them? Lol! I email them to remind them about my staus.


message 261: by Mack (new)

Mack Moore | 14 comments Dayanara wrote: "I first published with Amazon when CreateSpace was introduced. (And I emphasize "CreateSpace"...not whatever it used to be.) Unless you want all the bells and whistles (professional cover, reviews,..."

Send me a friend request please!


message 262: by Mark (new)

Mark Eytcheson | 5 comments I looked at CreateSpace and it looks great. I think I last looked at it in 2010 and they tried to sell me 3 or $4000 in services with the cheapest package at about 2000. It looks like it's pretty much free these days. Pretty cool service.


message 263: by Tameka (new)

Tameka Johnson | 26 comments Mark wrote: "I looked through this forum before accepting an offer from Tate to publish my book. I had self-published and had printed a few copies for friends and had submitted to several publishers. My book ..."

Been there Mark. Tate might produce your book for free if you have print ready materials. If you have print ready materials such as cover, layout and edits are done why would you need Tate when they do not actively market your book? They will just come back to you and tell you that your cover is no good so we would need to change it and that's $500 and so on...


message 264: by Thomas (new)

Thomas (Thomasrichardson) | 27 comments I've been waiting for someone else besides Dayanara to say this, but nobody else is, so I'll say it.

Indie writers, you don't need Tate Publishing (or any vanity press) at all.

Everything that Tate does for you, you can learn to do yourself. In the last two years, I've learned how to format ebooks in Kindle and EPUB format, and I've learned how to format interior text and covers for print-on-demand printing. So now I have three paperback titles for sale, and about a dozen ebook titles for sale, from knowing nothing about this stuff in August 2011.

It takes a while to learn how to do this stuff, and at times it's darned frustrating. But what is the alternative? Four thousand dollars to Tate?

Today, as it happens, I uploaded my fourth paperback book to Createspace. For this book, I've spent a total of $105 to turn words on a hard drive into a paper book; and $105 is much cheaper than $4000, is it not?

Here's what all this book-formatting knowledge gets me, besides saving me the price of a used car: I have choices now. I can whip out a short story that I will sell for only a few dollars as an ebook. I can write a novel, and put it out as both a paperback and an cheaply priced ebook. All my novels and stories go out with covers I like, and with sales-blurb text I like. And then, knowing what I know now, I can publish other authors. (In fact, the novel I uploaded today to Createspace was by the first author I've signed.)

I have no problem at all with throwing money at a great cover artist. But spending money on a vanity publisher? There's no need. The fact is, I can do for an author, everything that Tate claims to do (except for marketing); and even if I were to charge someone forty dollars an hour for my time, and mark-up the price of the artist I'd hired, I wouldn't charge this hypothetical author anything close to four thousand dollars.

To start out as an indie publisher, I recommend:
• _Independent Self-Publishing_ by Michael N. Marcus
• Anything written by Aaron Shepard
• Microsoft Word 2010
• downloading Scribus open-source desk-top publishing software.


message 265: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) *applause*

I used to Google images for my covers, but I discovered last fall that you can get two images from Shutterstock for $25. That's where I got such a lovely gal for Early One Morning. Maybe one day, I'll have a traditional publisher with a nice, fancy cover. But for now, I'll settle for my $12.50 image and a little patience with Photoshop. :D


message 266: by Carmen (new)

Carmen Amato (authorcarmenamato) | 73 comments Appla


message 267: by Carmen (new)

Carmen Amato (authorcarmenamato) | 73 comments Applause as well, for some home truths. There are amazing resources out there for authors, many of which cost nothing. KDP and Createspace have excellent free tutorials, there are hundreds of how-to YouTube videos out there ranging from writing and formatting to marketing. If you are aiming to put out a high quality book, with a little effort you can do it yourself and avoid a huge charge from Tate or any other fee-for-publication. Plus you will have much more control over the look and price of your book.


message 268: by K.A. (new)

K.A. Krisko (KAKrisko) | 256 comments I'd add the free Mark Coker Smashwords guide to learn how to find your way around WORD with an eye to formatting - just ignore the stuff specific to Smashwords if you're not using them, it's still an excellent resource. And Calibre - also free - for converting to various formats. Lastly, another freebie: dopdf, with which you can copy pictures to .pdf format to use as book covers, etc.


message 269: by Tameka (new)

Tameka Johnson | 26 comments I think I just saw a company where all these small vanity or whatever kind of none traditional publisher goes to whenever they need to make a cover, layout design and illustration. I will test it out myself first


message 270: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) What's the price bracket, Tameka?


message 271: by Jeannie (new)

Jeannie Seeley-Smith (Kronina9) | 6 comments I have read most of the posts on Tate Publishing that range from calling them the devil incarnate to “Okay - I am satisfied.” The majority lean toward “devil incarnate,” which I am having trouble understanding. Yes, Tate won’t, for the most part, work with authors if they can’t pay for their services, which puts them on the side of Vanity Publisher – but they also provide an array of services, including; cover, printing, eBooks, hard copies, distribution some marketing, author website, etc. —so now they move closer to the side of Subsidy Publisher.

But I find this to be true: they are honest with what they provide and honest about what it will cost the author, which for more first time authors is $4,000. Obviously, they have a business. And, in all businesses it requires selling – and, oh, yes, their salespersons are ferocious. Why? Because they are selling a service, but give them credit, it is not snake oil. They are selling publishing services, which is a legitimate business; just as long as one gets what was paid for.

I could understand the weeping and wailing concerning TATE if they took an author’s money and never published the book. But as I look on their site I see books. In fact, not only on their site but I see 16,000 of their books listed on Barnes and Noble and about the same amount on Amazon. I see books as eBooks, audio, soft and hard copies – and they have some interesting covers, which is the direct contradiction of what I have read on this forum. So what’s wrong with that? Looks to me as if they have a clever business and they are successful.

Okay, here is the concession. It appears that Tate will publish just about anything they can get their hands on, as long as the content is within their “nice” category. Of those 16,000 books I just wrote about…well…I don’t recognize any of them. Okay, a couple but for the most part the service one gets from them is a book. But what else can an author expect? It doesn’t matter who the publisher is – they can’t make a lousy, mediocre or even a fairly good read into a bestseller. If the book is amazing – Tate just might give that book a chance. But no publisher guarantees a bestseller or even a book that is going to land on a bookshelf for more than a month. And, yes, it’s probably true Tate’s business model is just like a “puppy mill” churn them in – and churn them out, but aren’t all Vanity/Subsidy Publisher based on that model?

Truth known, I doubt that TATE is looking for the bestseller. They make their money on volume. But, still it is a win-win as they do provide the services and at least give the author a shot to make their book a success – for a price. Again, nothing wrong with that – and, I will also give them this: they are extremely responsive to the author during the process. One is kept informed through it all. Emails are returned promptly – ah, so refreshing. And, the author can “leave the driving to them.”

So, back to the issue - if as a first time author, one has an agent who sales their book to a commercial publisher – fabulous! If one is tired of going it alone, tired of the rejection, tired of searching who will take an unsolicited manuscript (few will), or is impatient and does not want to wait endless months for a book to come out (after landing a publisher) than you have two choices; go the self-publishing route, or go the route of Vanity/Subsidy (if you have the money). There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Tate holds some advantage here as they use INGRAM – the largest distributor in the world. So, again, your book, if truly amazing, might have a chance. The other advantage with them that sets them apart is that in the long shot you sell 1,000 copies – well – you win. You get your $4,000 back. (Odds are probably on TATE’s side that you won’t sell that many.)

Once again, everyone gets to make their own choices –so I just don’t understand the big deal. If you have $4,000 to buy Tate’s services to get a book printed that can be a great option. Why label those who choose this route as foolish? We know what we are getting. One other point: the services are tax deductible, as they are prepublishing costs. For some, there again, depends on where each person is, that’s important.

In the end, (sorry it took so long to get there), it’s about the book. I am sure there are thousands of great books that never got noticed – but we do know one thing –no matter what we do, rather we self- publish, or go the route of Vanity, Subsidy or NYC’s “Big Five," it won’t get noticed unless, first – it is published and second—it’s great!


message 272: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments Jeannie wrote: "I have read most of the posts on Tate Publishing that range from calling them the devil incarnate to “Okay - I am satisfied.” The majority lean toward “devil incarnate,” which I am having trouble u..."
I'm going to say up front that I'm not completely opposed to the use of vanity/subsidy presses. Like almost everything else, they have a place in life, although what I would consider to be their legitimate purpose is extremely limited. If you are a lecturer, or have another career where you need to have a book or two available and have not been able to interest a selective house and don't have the time or inclination to purchase freelance professional services, sure. They make no sense for anyone else.

Availability through Ingram doesn't mean that bookstores will stock your book. Frankly there are fewer and fewer of them, selling fewer and fewer books.

Also, frankly, the quality of the professional services does affect the quality of the finished book. To my knowledge, I've never seen a Tate book, but I've seen a fair number of vanity products in my life, and they are generally not highly professional in appearance. Createspace paperbacks actually look much better than most of what I've seen, and all you pay for is the printing. The really lovely part of that is that you don't have to pay for a run. You can order one or two books.

Even for a finished product, $4000 is a high price tag buying those products and services piecemeal.

Finally, and this is the thing that really bothers me, they are not forthright about being a vanity house. Most subsidy/vanity presses are not. They masquerade as selective publishers.

Speaking of selective publishers, it is not necessary to start with the "Big Five" (or four, or six, I keep seeing different things). There are plenty of small and medium houses out there, many with a narrow focus. Some of the small houses don't give advances, which is fine, but the big difference, is that you don't pay them--they pay you. And since they don't get paid unless it sells, they have a strong investment in making your book the very best it can be.


message 273: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Jeannie wrote: "I have read most of the posts on Tate Publishing that range from calling them the devil incarnate to “Okay - I am satisfied.” The majority lean toward “devil incarnate,” which I am having trouble u..."


Okay, after six pages of chatter, I can see where you're confused. So let me clear this up for you:

NO ONE is upset that Tate is a vanity/subsidy publisher. (If you are, I'm sorry...it's a newsflash to me.) What we are upset about is that Tate likes to pretend that they're a traditional publisher, to whom you pay a $4,000 "marketing fee". We are also mad that, after paying said marketing fee, Tate eats it and doesn't do squat with our books.

If vanity is what I wanted (I can't speak for the rest of us), I would've gone with iUniverse or one of the others. iUniverse's second best package is $1,400 less than Tate's marketing fee, but based on what I've heard, iUniverse does scads more!

But none of us have $4,000 sitting around out there that we can throw to Tate to play tiddlywinks with. That's why everyone in their right minds uses CreateSpace/KDP and deals with their own marketing.


message 274: by Tameka (new)

Tameka Johnson | 26 comments my main concern about Tate is the way they called and told me that my manuscript has been selected and they were going to publish it. To make the long story short... they wanted me to pay them to do my COVER, LAYOUT and all sorts of marketing. I have not seen or heard any author that made money from Tate. 10 yrs in the business and they have not produced anyone. I also read in some blogs about former employees saying that every quarter, Tate would set aside $4000 for royalty...... ACROSS ALL 12,000 authors. That's an average payout of $3/author! that former employee said that Tate takes advantage of the inexperienced authors for lack of knowledge in the industry.


message 275: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Oh my goodness. I never realized they were only paying $4k in royalties split among their authors. That's ridiculous. Thanks, Tameka.


message 276: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments That is most likely because they do not actually have any royalties to pay out, because they probably have not sold any books.


message 277: by Cindy (last edited Feb 06, 2014 10:31PM) (new)

Cindy Amrhein (HistorySleuth) | 55 comments The odds of making back that $4,000 investment is slim to none, and if I understand correctly, you still have to purchase author copies. Heck, an offset print run would be less than that. TATES object here is to sell books to the author not the public.


message 278: by Jeannie (new)

Jeannie Seeley-Smith (Kronina9) | 6 comments Just to correct. The $4,000 is the amount an author invests in their book when signing with Tate. If a 1,000 books are sold the author receives those dollars back (you, cannot, however, count the books the author buys toward the 1,000). But in looking back on the blog I've read where some authors report recouping their $4,000. Also, there is no requirement for the author to purchase their books. iUniverse top package to self-publish is $4,300. Of course, if you self-publish you keep all the revenue.


message 279: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 198 comments I believe the authors who have broken even have done so selling the books themselves, not through Tate's "distribution network".


message 280: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Jeannie, I ask this in all seriousness, are you employed or associated with Tate?


message 281: by Jeannie (new)

Jeannie Seeley-Smith (Kronina9) | 6 comments I am one of their new author’s with a book coming out in April. Consequently, I have been writing from personal experience – and can say that I have been extremely happy working with them. My incentive is that I wanted my book published quickly. I did not want the long waits between proposal responses, then waiting for manuscript approval, etc. etc. I am a CEO of large nonprofit and work long hours; hence, I wanted everything done for me. My manuscript (gift book size) was sent in December and I will have a book by April. That is perfect for my situation.


message 282: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) This is the first time I've ever had to block someone for too obviously being of the Cult of Tate. O.o


message 283: by Darlene (new)

Darlene Torday | 10 comments I believe you can pay $25 for Ingram distribution when you sign up at Create Space.


message 284: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Darlene wrote: "I believe you can pay $25 for Ingram distribution when you sign up at Create Space."

That's free now. I mentioned it a page or two ago.


message 285: by Daniel (new)

Daniel Cramer | 3 comments i looked at tate but was discouraged by the fact that they require you to use their isbn. i chose createspace because i thought it was a cleaner deal.....i have not been disappointed. my cover looks great, they did everything they said they would for 1000. heavens warriors the defense of god on amazon if you are interested in my cover


message 286: by Daniel (new)

Daniel Cramer | 3 comments my biggest advice to any author is never do business with westbow press or any archer publishing company..... they are absolutely corrupt!!! after paying over 20,000 to them and revieving only a rediculous edit in return i hired an attorney and got most of my money back. in the process they overbilled my credit card... overcharged for my edit by exagerating the word count. sold me services that they dont provide e.g. ghost writing. i could go on.....just avoid them, they are anything but a christian company


message 287: by Pattimari (new)

Pattimari | 66 comments Thank you so much for your warning. I truly appreciate it. You can go to Amazon and get an kindle book free, absolutely no charge what-so-ever.

I just published my kindle books on the following address: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...


message 288: by Jeannie (new)

Jeannie Seeley-Smith (Kronina9) | 6 comments Daniel wrote: "i looked at tate but was discouraged by the fact that they require you to use their isbn. i chose createspace because i thought it was a cleaner deal.....i have not been disappointed. my cover look..."
Daniel, Congratulations! It is certainly a compelling and powerful cover. It also looks like a fascinating story. (I read the inside). Very exciting, and I wish you all the best with it, especially after going through such a nightmare with the other companies you mentioned. I commend you for not giving up after being ripped off. (I think I would have given up.) But instead you finished the course to what looks to be a wonderful success! You obviously have great tenacity and I am sure it will pay off! Apparently, for you it is true…all is well that ends well.


message 289: by Mack (last edited Feb 17, 2014 02:42PM) (new)

Mack Moore | 14 comments Jeannie wrote: "I have read most of the posts on Tate Publishing that range from calling them the devil incarnate to “Okay - I am satisfied.” The majority lean toward “devil incarnate,” which I am having trouble u..."

Hello there. I hope and pray to God that everything works out for you with Tate. There are pros and cons with any publisher, including the major ones. I have posted somewhere on this discussion about my bad experience with Tate. I have read other horror stories up here. All I will say is that there are people who have paid the $4,000 with Tate and didn't get the services they had paid for. I just hope you are one of the fortunate ones that do get what you paid for. Because honestly they don't screw everyone over, but they have done that. Have a blessed day!


message 290: by Krona (new)

Krona | 2 comments what ever was the end result concerning Tate Publishing ...I think it sounded as if there were a lot of happy authors.


message 291: by Krona (new)

Krona | 2 comments Is the conversation concerning the good and bad of Tate Publishing put to rest? It seems in the end that there were several happy authors.


message 292: by A.W. (last edited Mar 23, 2014 06:51PM) (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments The "happy authors" appeared to have $4,000 to throw at Tate for unspecified (or even non-existent?) marketing services.

There are a large number of unhappy Tate authors.

This discussion just goes round and round in circles, so yes, it can be put to bed.

At the end of the day, do your research. Ask around, look at the reviews and sales ranking of books on Amazon (an eye opener with Tate titles).

Always go into a publishing contract with your eyes open.


message 293: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Happy? Who's happy? I don't see any happy Tate authors here.

A few naive ones, maybe.


message 294: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Please bare in mind that Tate has sock puppets that troll threads trying to dispel any negative comments with positive comments.

According to a former Tate employee...


message 295: by Kevin (new)

Kevin Puls | 6 comments I have a friend of mine who, I must admit, I have not seen in years. Her ex-husband is a longtime friend of the family...

Anyway, a few months back, she mentioned that she will be releasing her 1st book. After several email & FB chats, I come to find out that she was charged $4000 to get her book published. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THIS! As someone who helped promote a best-selling book, I was taken aback. First of all, because I would have charged less, and secondly, the way that the company is handling the launch process. 'Apparently', she can't get any galley, or advance copies of her book w/o buying them?

Well, I come to find out today who the publisher is (Tate). I NEVER heard of them. So, I went to their website. In their header, they claim to be, "America's Top Publisher" (in quotes)!...

The book that I helped promote was published by Penguin - a company that most of you have heard of, but Tate?!?

I feel so sorry for my friend, but more for myself, because I could have REALLY helped her with her marketing, and made some money to boot.


message 296: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) People who get in with Penguin are the lucky ones. "Tate-r Tots" just get taken.


message 297: by Kevin (new)

Kevin Puls | 6 comments And that is why you self-publish.

Or, hire someone reputable to promote the book.

I see them as I look at any other product launch => there is a lot of work that needs to be done to have a successful book.


message 298: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Oh, I've always self-published. But when you're a starving artist...em...novelist...you never have any money for marketing. (And word-of-mouth only seems to be effective in moving free books.)


message 299: by Kevin (new)

Kevin Puls | 6 comments I can give you some ideas, Dayanara.


message 300: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I have 20 Facebook friends and a fan page and twitter feed that everyone ignores.

Next?


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Books mentioned in this topic

Fluffy, Funny, and Fabulous: A Tale of Five Sisters (other topics)
Early One Morning (other topics)
Sail Away on My Silver Dream (other topics)