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Writer's Circle > Tate Publishing??? I need some input to make a decision.

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message 151: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Opinions, you gotta love em....


message 152: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments David wrote: "I am a (currently) satisfied Tate author. I went into the deal with eyes open, knowing all the bad press. The common thread I have found in most of the gripes online are from authors who went in wi..."

Thanks David. Your post cleared up a few things I have been wondering about. I do feel I need to invest in my book and see where it leads. $4k is alot of money but I feel with all the hard work I have already done and plan on continuing I will make a a good go of it with Tate. We are planing on going forward and praying to the Lord that my book does what I want it to and that is reach my public. It would be a blessing if we sold 1000 and got back our retainer. I am not out to get rich, just get my message out there. Thanks!!


message 153: by David (new)

David G. Johnson (DavidGJohnson) | 3 comments Jeff wrote: "Thanks David. Your post cleared up a few things I have been wondering about. I do feel I need to invest in my book and see where it leads. $4k is alot of money but I feel with all the hard work I have already done and plan on continuing I will make a a good go of it with Tate. We are planing on going forward and praying to the Lord that my book does what I want it to and that is reach my public. It would be a blessing if we sold 1000 and got back our retainer. I am not out to get rich, just get my message out there. Thanks!! "

Jeff, I am glad to help. One thing I would caution you to TALK to them about before making the final decision is what the eventual pricing on your book will be. That is the one area I am a little miffed at myself for not doing. Depending on what your book is about, the end pricing may be fine. For me, as a new author, my books are Speculative Fiction novels and are priced at the very high end of the normal range for new releases. I feel that is going to cost me in general sales, but I am hoping I can make up for that to some degree with niche marketing. Had I known where they were planning to price the books, I might have thought much more carefully about whether or not this was the right choice. For now, I am still happy with my decision, but I am also not past the point of writing off the retainer and re-releasing the books self-published at a lower price if I feel where they priced the books are a serious detriment to sales.

Whatever you do, do it with careful prayer and consideration and don't count on the retainer coming back anytime soon. Distributed sales take time to build, and you may find you make back your investment much quicker through niche marketing your author copies of the book than waiting for the distributed sales to hit that 1,000 mark, especially if you are not already going in with some form of platform.

Your author copies you buy at 40% of list price, so let's run some numbers really quickly. Say your book ends up priced at $20. You pay $8/copy for author copies and sell them at book signings, speaking engagements, niche marketing opportunities. You make $12/copy. At that rate you make back $4,000 with 334 sales as opposed to 1,000 sales through distributed channels. Also on the distributed sales, you get 15% of what they sell it to the distributors for. On the same priced book, that runs around $1.20 after the distributor discount, so that's making ten times the royalty on selling an author copy as selling a distributed copy. For the same 334 books sold, that's only $400 bucks back, and still 666 copies from the retainer refund.

If you do this, I'd advise writing the retainer off from day one, that way your heart won't be focused on that instead of focused on marketing your books with all your efforts. That way as the popularity of the book grows, you should have already made back your investment several fold by the time you have the distributed sales to get back the retainer, and it will be like a bonus reward for all your efforts.

It is a lot of money, and if you feel it will be a sore spot, a burden on your finances, or something that will become a focal point for you, then I would urge you to reconsider. If you are in a position where you can make the investment, you are happy with where Tate says the end price point will be, and you are prepared to bust your hump marketing the book without looking back, then this might still be a good road for you.

Otherwise, I have a more general marketing information post that just went live on my Speculative Fiction blog: Otherworld Windows. You can check that post out at the link below for some more points on marketing, which are applicable no matter which way you go.

Blessings,

David

http://otherworldwindows.blogspot.com/


message 154: by Anton (new)

Anton (AntonTroia) | 9 comments I declined an offer from Xlibris. They want way too much money to market my book on the NY times and on Kirkus, and I don't want to trust them for royalty reports.


message 155: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I had Xlibris try to tell me that "pay to play" is the only way to self-publish anymore.

In whose wealthy dreams?


message 156: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Who are you warning now, Don?


message 157: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Remind me...do you use an agent? I think that's my next step.


message 158: by Dayanara (last edited Dec 08, 2013 08:38AM) (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) *laughs*

I have to have something worth submitting, first. (Just because I have four books out, doesn't mean they're any good!)


message 159: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) You paid the retainer AND bought 700 books?! *jaw drop* Where'd you get your moneytree?


message 160: by Yvette (new)

Yvette Hale | 1 comments Trust me I don't have a money tree. It was money hard earned and spent pursuing my dream of publishing my book on adoption. I just hope it turns out to be everything I thought it to be. It's such an important issue for me in my personal life.


message 161: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments I am a self published writer who paid under $1000 to get my book published both on Amazon and Barnes & Noble along with my website. I have several book stores selling my book as well. I have sold around 1900 since my books release in July and I am happy with my sales but I did summit to Tate and got a contract.

I have been looking into there $4k deal and I have to say I think I am going to decline. Seems they may have a few places I have not sold on but that I would have to still do ALOT of self marketing and ground work and that was what I was hoping a real publisher would do for me. I understand that it takes my help as a author to market my book but after hearing all the stories it seems I would still need to work as hard or harder after paying the 4k and don’t think I would get much bang for my buck.

My book, "The Republic" has had great reviews both locally and world wide and I feel that the Self Publishing with Harrison House Publishing of San Antonio is my home for now and will be the home of my second book, "The Red White and True" due to come out this spring.

Good luck to those of you who signed the Tate. They sound like a good company but with a high price tag.


message 162: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Why is everyone off topic?

Joe the Cat has nothing to do with TATE Publishing, which is what the original topic was about.

KEEP ON TRACK PEOPLE...

You wanna talk about cats, and your own books, start a thread...


message 163: by Janet (new)

Janet Doolaege | 49 comments Oh, sorry!


message 164: by Don (new)

Don Ford (dgford) | 34 comments Dear Nick,
I did get far afield of your topic of Tate publishing. I removed it. My
apology. Cheers, Don (The eagle guy) Flying off the handle it would appear instead of into the sky where I belong.


message 165: by Don (new)

Don Ford (dgford) | 34 comments Hi Janet,
Why are you sorry? You did nothing wrong here! I take full on responsibility for getting us off on another tangent. Cheers, Don


message 166: by Janet (new)

Janet Doolaege | 49 comments Thanks, Don! I'd better get off this thread, as unfortunately I know nothing about Tate Publishing.


message 167: by Dayanara (last edited Dec 15, 2013 05:11PM) (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) This first post here is particularly interesting...
http://www.writers.net/forum/showthre...


message 168: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I don't know much about marketing, but I'd say "step outside your niche". See if you can arrange book signings, visits to events, etc. If I were in your shoes, I'd target the hearts of adoptive and/or foster parents, not those who work in the system.


message 169: by Judy (new)

Judy Goodwin | 187 comments When you say "sold 1900 copies" I'm assuming you mean sold rather than gave away free. If that's the case, you've already done better than most self-published authors, and I doubt Tate would be able to do much for you. If you want wider distribution at that point, it's time to talk to the Big 5. That would also be a great pitch to get it into local bookstores.


message 170: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Judy wrote: "If you want wider distribution at that point, it's time to talk to the Big 5..."

While sales of 1,900 units might be better than the average indie it will not attract the attention of the Big 5. Firstly you would need an agent, and various agent blogs say they need to see minimum sales of 20,000 units to interest them. Most of the indies who go on to print deals with the Big 5 are selling 100,000+ units on their own.


message 171: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments I realise that :)

I was just pointing out that sales of 1,900 units is a long way off attracting the attention of an agent and a Big 5.


message 172: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments Yes, I have sold 1900 copies so far and not just gave away, who can afford that? I promote my book at my book signings which I arrange myself by buying air time on radio and news paper adds.

My book is about Texas independence so Texans really want to hear that stuff so word of mouth helps me. I mainly have sold Ebook versions off of Amazon and Barnes but have sold a lot of paperback books as well and all over the world. Getting in with a BIG 5 would be nice but I am not holding my breath. I have done radio interviews as well as guest appearances on talk radio and morning shows. I am doing a TV interview on PBS in January. These help my sales as I target them. I have also contacted book stores and have set up sales with them. They call me when they need books and I place a order and ship directly from my printer to there store where they sell them. I don’t sale to the large book stores as they don’t work with self published authors because I am not a return book vender. I stick to the small mom and pop book stores and Hastings book store chain works with authors as well and they are pretty big.

Facebook has also helped sell books as I have advertized on there as well. I have put a lot of time and money into it already and have broke even which is great to me as i am just trying to get my message out. I could sell my Ebook and Kindle for free some to boost my fan base but I feel my sales are ok and I hate loosing money at a hobby.

Good luck out there with Tate, Yvette.


message 173: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) I must be a clueless little newbie...I have NO idea what (or who) the "Big Five" are.


message 174: by Judy (new)

Judy Goodwin | 187 comments Congrats on your efforts! I need to do more in person signings and book faires, but it's a challenge, having a job and family. I know I've been needing to get a Facebook but haven't been sure how to do it. Did you do advertising--paid advertising? If so, what kind?

And to answer the question, the "Big 5" are the biggest publishing companies in America, including Simon and Shuster, "Random Penguin" (that's formerly Random House and Penguin), Harper Collins, Doubleday, and St. Martin's.


message 175: by Jeff (last edited Dec 17, 2013 08:17AM) (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments The Facebook page is easy to set up but first you need a facebook page yourself and friends willing to like your page. Then you can invite them and your posts will appear on there news pages. With every like and share more people see it. With their paid promotions on facebook I feel it is a cheap way to get noticed and I boost links to where my book can be found. I have had a lot of sales tracked to these paid advertizing and I feel I broke even on them or at the most made a little. My page only has 358 likes on it and it feels great seeing people from all over the world liking my page and following my pages. I post pictures that inspire me which are military pictures which is what my book is about. I have gave away a few books to veterans and to navy ships, people deployed in Iraq and Afgan as a way of saying thanks and to spread my message but only a few. Veterans really like my story and can relate. I get feedback via facebook massager, good or bad.


message 176: by Trinity (new)

Trinity Tate-edgerton | 1 comments My name is Trinity Tate-Edgerton, Exec Director of Acquisitions at TATE PUBLISHING, LLC. I would be honored if anyone who has questions about Tate Publishing would contact us directly at
(888)361-9473...you can even ask for me directly or I am number 1 on our phone system if you want to leave me a message. I would be happy to speak with you to help you get a better idea of how, if possible, we can meet your needs. I may even be able to sway you in the direction of what you may be searching for, if it is not a good fit with us here at Tate. We may not be the answer for every author but we do work very hard to meet your needs and make this an affordable option for you to get the publicity and marketing that your book truly deserves. I also would be happy to get you in touch with any of our Tate Publishing Authors if you would like to speak to anyone directly about their experience with us! Thank you for this forum, good reads! I love that authors and literature lovers have a place to come to get support and feedback! Hope everyone is ready for a great 2014 and I hope to hear from anyone who wishes to speak with us further!


message 177: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Amazing...

Mrs Tate-Edgerton comes into a forum about Tate publishing, but does not answer one question about Tate. No, she wants to answer questions behind closed doors and out of the publics view...

I agree though in that Tate may not be the answer for every author. Tate would only say they were the authors answers for those writers who can afford their outrageous prices.


message 178: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Trinity wrote: "My name is Trinity Tate-Edgerton, Exec Director of Acquisitions at TATE PUBLISHING, LLC. I would be honored if anyone who has questions about Tate Publishing would contact us directly at
(888)361-..."


Honey, if you're really part of Tate and you're really on our side, get off your ass and petition your boss for cheaper prices for your services. Better yet, get him to STOP CHARGING US! Then--and only then--will you be able to acquire and sell my books.


message 179: by Anita (new)

Anita Lewis (Anitasreads) | 28 comments Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience with them so far. I just ordered 700 books from them and have ..."

I am a Tate author and have had my book out since Dec of last year. It came out right at Christmas so I was not able to get sales last year but did well this year. I have been to countless craft/vendor fairs, book signings, author fairs, book clubs, anywhere they will have me. I have made back my investments and am profitable. But its is very hard work but the reward of meeting and connecting with people is well worth the time. I have a full time job but spend my weekends doing my promotions. Good luck, keep at it. You may only sell 5 or 10 books at an event but you are getting your name out there.


message 180: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Yvette wrote: "Did you set up all your signings or did Tate do it for you? "

Given Tate charge authors $4,000 for marketing I would expect they organise everything.


message 181: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments How would Tate arrange signings at flea markets and craft fairs they know nothing about?

Most craft fairs and flea markets charge a table or booth fee to participate and Tate sure as hell is not going to pay for those fees.


message 182: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Then what marketing DOES Tate provide for $4,000? What book signings, tours or promotional spots DO they organise?

Nobody is willing to say what $4,000 worth of promotion involves - which in itself speaks volumes.


message 183: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments From what I understand,

1, mass market emails to the list of friends you give them and other people they have on their mailing list.

2, listing in the Tate Catalogue that is sent out to distributors and listed on their web site.

3, selected blog tours, which any SP writer can arrange,

4, selected podcast with no guarantee that those pod case are followed by reader in your genre and which very few readers listen to...

The truth is, most paid marketing by Tate and other Vanity book publishers do very little marketing and most SP writers can do the same things cheaper...


message 184: by Marian (new)

Marian Schwartz | 213 comments Anita wrote: "Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience with them so far. I just ordered 700 books from..."

Anita wrote: "Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience with them so far. I just ordered 700 books from..."

Dayanara wrote: "Trinity wrote: "My name is Trinity Tate-Edgerton, Exec Director of Acquisitions at TATE PUBLISHING, LLC. I would be honored if anyone who has questions about Tate Publishing would contact us direct..."

Anita wrote: "Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience with them so far. I just ordered 700 books from..."

Anita,

You could have ordered your books from Create Space to take to craft fairs, flea markets, etc. What did Tate actually do for you in terms of booking places for you to promote your book?


message 185: by Marc (new)

Marc Brackett | 74 comments I think the power of spam, tweets, and mass marketing is underestimated.

In my case everyday I set out to read all of my spam, but I'm getting a new tweet every half minute that I have to read and then retweet myself. Nothing like having over 10,000 friends sharing their lives and thoughts with me 140 characters at a time.

So between tweets I forward all my spam to everyone on my email lists as well. If it involves kittens on curtains with the phrase "Hang in there," or maybe puppies I will share it with everyone on Facebook.

For like you know those articles that have lots of words and not as many pictures but it looks like something really serious or important is being talked about, I share those on LinkedIn.

If it's just pictures, especially pictures of shoes, food, or handbags the obvious choice is Pinterest.

I now have thousands and thousands of friends all over the world and we are all eagerly waiting for the next treasure to share with each other. Sometimes we will share the same thing with each other several times a day, some stuff is that good.

What I like most is getting something from someone I don't know that is of no interest to me. This is how I expand my mind and make new friends. Sucking up to strangers and pretending to be interested in what they are sharing is really fun, almost as much fun as when other people are doing it to me.


message 186: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Marc,

Spam me with all that crap and you would not be on my friends list for very long...


message 187: by Janet (new)

Janet Doolaege | 49 comments Nick wrote: "Marc,

Spam me with all that crap and you would not be on my friends list for very long..."


I've a feeling that Marc's comment was tongue-in-cheek ...


message 188: by Gabriel (new)

Gabriel Boutros | 49 comments Marian wrote: "Anita wrote: "Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience with them so far. I just ordered ..."

I think the only way to decide if your money is well spent at Tate is to see how many sales came from your own work (like going to book fairs and signings), and how many came through things like being included in their catalogue. Some things I'm not able to do myself, or don't have the time for, so then it's a question of how much it's worth to me to have someone else do it. But if I'm the one booking appearances or driving out to book fairs, then there is no reason to pay anyone else. I'd be curious to know if anybody can quantify how many sales are really made through having one's book in a catalogue or listing, or if the book just gets lost in the crowd.


message 189: by Jeff (last edited Jan 04, 2014 09:41PM) (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments Yvette wrote: "Gabriel wrote: "Marian wrote: "Anita wrote: "Yvette wrote: "I have been reading all the stuff on Tate Publishing and am currently working with them on my first book. I have had a good experience wi..."

$4,000 is alot of money to just give you ideas on where to spam your own book. The more I look into Tate the more I dont think I will be signing with them. I already set up my own book signings and ads, webpage and facebook and have sold quite a bit on my own while working full time on my farm.

I think most of us would be better off if we would use the $4k to market our own books on our own and have compleat control of our own book. There are self publishers who will print your book for under $1k and that leaves $3k for travel and marketing. Hang in there people and we will all get our dreams and ideas out to our readers, future and present.


message 190: by Skadi (new)

Skadi Winter (SkadiWinter) I am a novice in self publishing. I have published my first book with Authorhouse.co.uk. and I love writing on my second book now. I even had really good reviews and 5*****ratings on amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. BUT, I am doing the marketing myself - and nobody has told me how time consuming that is. Most frustrating is, I have paid so much money for the publishing that I am nearly broke now and nothing comes in moneywise; so I have decided to ask bookshops in my town and 3 of them happily agreed to promote and sell my book. Now, I need to buy books (my books!) to sell. The price was knocking me out. This is why I have decided to get a second edition and am working now with a local editor,her husband is a publisher, a local printer and local bookshops - and am making money, believe it or not. I am all over the social media (twitter, facebook, LinkedIn, Goodreads, and blogging) - their followers are buying mostly from amzon. There are too many sharks in the pond out there, be aware. I have learnt my lesson. I might have started rather small - but successfully - at least money wise...


message 191: by A.W. (last edited Jan 05, 2014 03:17PM) (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Skadi wrote: "I am a novice in self publishing. I have published my first book with Authorhouse..."

This is why it is so vital to do your research - Authorhouse are a notorious scam. They are NOT a legitimate publisher, they are a vanity house who earn their money by scamming writers, not by selling books. A simple google search will show there are multiple hits (and even entire blogs) devoted to detailing the Authorhouse scam.

There is only one rule to remember about publishing - money flows TO the author.


message 192: by Skadi (new)

Skadi Winter (SkadiWinter) ...shame on these vanity houses! It won't happen again and I will spread the word to any new writer I know. Thanks, if I only had known...


message 193: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Better to get caught by AuthorHouse than PublishAmerica, methinks. I've heard that PA is worse and even more of a pain.


message 194: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Essary | 9 comments Harrison House Publishing out of San Antonio Texas was easy and they are so nice. And only cost me $950 with some editing. I am writing my second book and they will get it as well.


message 195: by Dayanara (new)

Dayanara Ryelle (DRyelle) Starving writers shouldn't have to pay anything. Plus, as many people on this thread have wisely said, money should flow TO the author, not AWAY from them. (My update to that thought is "unless you're paying for marketing materials, autograph pens, etc.")


message 196: by Karen (new)

Karen Anne (minissa) | 10 comments Getting into this discussion late, but I'm in Utah (actually, I thought Tate was as well). My dentist published with them, but he has fairly easy access to clientele (he has a stack of them at the desk where you sign in). He did say their marketing wasn't great (but whose is). The other thing I caught was a news item about a teen in the area who was publishing her first book with them, and the item described them as being very selective and only taking about 4% of the mss submitted. Of course, that could mean all but 4% turn them down if they truly accept everyone who comes up the pike!


message 197: by Karen (new)

Karen Anne (minissa) | 10 comments Oh, yeah, both of the above authors were LDS/Mormon. Not sure what difference that made, but if they're "Christian" publishers, I can see the appeal.


message 198: by A.W. (new)

A.W. Exley (AWExley) | 479 comments Karen wrote: "...the item described them as being very selective and only taking about 4% of the mss submitted ..."

Maybe only 4% had $4,000 to throw at them? lol


message 199: by Karen (new)

Karen Anne (minissa) | 10 comments Oh, Skadi, you poor thing! If you want a good laugh (I do have to admit I have a friend who cluelessly did AuthorHouse and was happy with her deal, but I haven't seen the final copy of the book, If you want a good laugh, look up PA's "Atlanta Nights.' A number of authors, in retaliation for some PA bigwig saying SFF is rubbish, put together a book, each of 20-30 authors doing a chapter and none really knowing what anyone else was writing. They did a press release when it was accepted (the acceptance letter itself is humorous) admitting the scam, and the next day PA sent a letter withdrawing its offer, citing that the book had far too many editorial issues for it to be considered. It printed on Lulu, but I was able to get it from my local library.


message 200: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Kumanchik | 1 comments I went with Tate with my first book--wouldn't recommend. I recently published both e-book & hard copy with BookBaby for my second book, The Estrogen Chronicles, Circle of Friends. Very professional, low cost and great product!


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