Do people still say that in order to get South of Market you have to be born there?

Ruth, I don't think so. It's a very up & coming area, going very upscale, as is much of the city.

Do people still say that in order to get South of Market you have to be born there?

Is it still nearly impossible to get across Market during traffic?

Actually, the traffic has gotten much, much worse. And don't get me started about how bad the parking is. BUT, I do cross Market relatively frequently without too much aggravation.

Yes, I know Parkmerced. The Richmond was all early hippy when I was in SF. I worked South of Market. Is it still nearly impossible to get across Market during traffic?

Ruth,

And the Sunset is one of the "flat" neighborhoods!! It's so funny when out of town people are here and we're driving through the flat areas, they are talking about all the hills.

In the late 50s I was l living in Parkmerced, just to the south of the Sunset. Now I'm just across the park to the north in the Richmond.

I’ve only been in my neighborhood a year and a half. Everyone was friendly and welcoming when I moved in, but it didn’t take long for me to discover there was a huge neighborhood feud. It started because someone did one of those “remodels” that’s really a rebuilding, and raised his roofline 18 inches. Eighteen inches you say? BFD. It’s obvious you don’t live where there is an ocean view. Apparently some people went ballistic. And it escalated from there. One of the major parties to the argument has just moved away, so I’m hoping that will calm the waters. We’ve just laid low and stayed out of it.

My small city is divided into the old part that’s right on the coast, and the new part that’s mostly inland McMansions. I’m in the old part, where the downtown still looks like a funky little beach town. I avoid the new part except when I need to go to Lowes.

I can walk to the taco place and our mechanic. Other than that, I have to drive. We’ve recently downsized to only one car, so far it doesn’t seem to be a problem. Mostly we stay home and look at that view.

Lisa, in the late 1950s I lived in the Sunset District of SF. I was always afraid that if I let go of the baby stroller it wouldn't stop until it flew into the ocean.

Sarah, The Haight is still a great walking neighborhood. They're to the east of Golden Gate Park. I'm to the north and much farther to the west. I'm probably nearly 3 miles from the heart of the Haight. San Francisco is actually a good walking city. It's only 7 by 7 miles, although there are many hills, but when I was younger and fitter I could walk practically anywhere, although carrying home books & packages was not always so feasible.

Edit: Amoeba Records is still there and it's the best store!

RA - yay for another Chicagoan! (Chicagoian? I could never find a consensus)

Bruce's comment about avoiding the big boxes reminds me of another thing that made my neighborhood in Chicago so great, and I can't believe I forgot to mention it. The non-chain stores and restaurants outnumbered the chains. Lots of independent bookstores, most of them used. The only chain restaurant I ate at was Chipotle. I just loved how so much of it was unique and not cut-and-paste. A 24-hour diner that was a real diner and not a 24-hour place like Shake and Steak or Waffle House.

The term "mixed use" is great, I wasn't aware of that term. And I agree with what everyone has said about them.

I live in small-town New Zealand.......20,000 population. My neighbourhood is on the 'right' side of town, with sidewalks, grassy berms and leafy trees. It is safe to go walking at 5.30 in the morning! It is a little less safe for pet cats on Fri and Sat nights when the local youths speed down the kilometre long straight street (irresistable apparently). I have lost two like that. I am 15 minutes walk from town and only 2 mins from the closest railway station.....handy for my son when he visits by train, from Wellington. You can see my street on Google Earth maps....Renall Street Masterton, NZ.

I live in a small town in a New England. I guess that I think of this town and the immediately adjacent town as my "neighborhood". Each has about 7000 people in it. Very little crime, very good sense of community. I can get almost every thing I need in one town or the other and I try to avoid the big boxes. There is an ongoing push between conservation and development. The adjacent town, Exeter, is much older, and has sort of a classic New England downtown (very small, but very nice) - Stratham has one main highway going through where most of the business congregates. Car dealers and the like, which is kind of why I like Exeter. But we are trying to put in a new model for business development called The Gateway Project - which is designed to take people out of their cars. It will consist of several small streets and parking areas so that someone can park and walk from store to store. I hope it works out. The politics and economics behind it are very interesting to me.

Lisa -- Are you far from the Haight? I remember walking from Golden Gate Park...Last time I was there the area still had good cafes, and Amoeba Records - is that area still fun, despite the junkies, or is it declining further?

Jackie, I prefer mixed neighborhoods too, as long as what's close is appealing to residents. Unfortunately, I can't afford to move, at least not within the San Francisco Bay Area, and I have some good reasons for staying, at least for the near future. At some point I'll have to look into a move to a neighborhood with a better fit for me.

The Death and Life of Great American Cities is excellent.

Sarah, Her books look interesting. Do you recommend any in particular?

I think EVERYBODY should read Jane Jacobs. Especially if they happen to be planning a city.
I've been thinking a lot about going to grad school at long last, and this program really appeals to me, even though I've never done anything remotely related to it. I just like the concept. A lot. Is that a good enough reason?

http://www.geog.utoronto.ca/programs/pla...

Yeah, your neighborhood should fit your lifestyle and needs, and it sounds like yours doesn't anymore, Lisa.
I prefer neighborhoods that are mixed use, with essential services there with the houses. Which goes against the philosophy of urban planning of the past. Which seems to be designed to force us to drive everywhere.
Hmm...

Oh, one of the things I really hoped would happen when we made this move was living in a mixed-use area, and not in the suburbs. I don't understand the mindset that created these big blocks of houses far away from everything else...I guess it was that whole "country living" idea miniaturized for the middle class. In practice, as far as I'm concerned, it SUCKS.

And, of course, now developers will stick up houses where ever the land is cheap, without thought for infrastructure or anything. As weird as it is, Disney's "Celebration" development is a return to the mixed use neighborhood (well, the Disney version), a way people used to live. I've seen a lot of developments start in urban areas with living space on upper floors and businesses on the bottom floors, which just makes SENSE to me.

People living next to each other does not make a neighborhood. I wonder if the rise of the suburbs has created people who don't know how to live in close quarters where what you do affects the people around you. Lots of private little bubbles.

My neighborhood was one I liked when I had a dog and we were both very fit: 3 blocks from Golden Gate Park and within walking distance of Land's End hiking trail and easy driving distance to several other parks and the beach. I don't like it now though. I'm on a very big hill. the only thing near me other than residences is a high school. It's possible to walk to a library and grocery stores (where I don't shop normally) but it's not easy. I drive almost everywhere now. I am a hilly block from busses but the main bus I'm near has the highest crime rate in the city (well, it is also the longest bus route, or one of the longest) and it's just not very reliable or affordable. So, I'd rather live in a neighborhood now where I'd be near a library and a health food store and some vegan/vegetarian restaurants, a laundromat, etc. etc. or at least a couple of these. I'm not even on a quiet block/in a quiet building, which would mitigate my relative isolation.

Brooke, I used to live just east of Wrigley, on Pine Grove, then I lived a couple years in Roscoe Village...I grew up on the far northwest side. Wrigeyville and Roscoe Village were fun when I was in my teens and twenties. I visit fairly often.

When I lived in Chicago, I lived in Lakeview, which is right below Wrigleyville (home of the Cubs) and a couple of neighborhoods north of downtown. I loooooved it there, and the things that make it a "good" neighborhood was that everything was in walking distance, with "everything" being a huge variety of things. Since it was a big-city neighborhood, I didn't really get to know many people, but I didn't ever feel like I was walking around with a bunch of strangers. Since it was not a family neighborhood (they all went out to the suburbs), it was totally normal to go out to dinner by myself and sit there with a book and not feel out of place. I have no patience now for the idea of suburbs or places where residential areas are completely separate from business and commercial areas. I often think I need to move back.

I do not live in a neighborhood. To my north is a vacation bungalow without heat or a basement that is only occupied during the summer by people getting out of the city for a week or so. To my south is a hasidic bungalow colony. Again, only occupied during the summer when there is a lot of noise, kids yelling, pa announcements, etc. To the west, there were two abandoned houses. The fire department did a supervised burn of one of them last summer because it was becoming a hazard. The other is/was being remodeled by a speculator but that seems to have run out of steam. To the east is a bunch of fields and then chicken factory which stinks in an impressive fashion when they empty the poo tanks.

There is a town near me with sidewalks and what used to be a main street but a lot of the storefronts are boarded up and/or change hands very frequently. There's some drug dealing and there was a small knife fight in front of the elementary school last year. Also I know someone who had to call the cops because his drunk neighbor started shooting at his dog because it was barking. I go there to go to the farmers market in the summer and to pick up books from the library but I would be afraid to live there.

I’m really happy with my current neighborhood. It has a lot of the standard city elements but is one of the more residential neighborhoods here (in other words, it’s not one of the “hip” neighborhoods but that means drunk people don’t wake me up or pee on my car in the middle of the night). I’m only two blocks from a library and a pretty active strip with nice cheap restaurants, post office, shops, grocers, public transportation, a park, botanical gardens, and museums. I can see the ocean from certain spots on the street, which is lovely. I also have the privilege of walking to work every morning, which is soooo nice.

The neighborhood I grew up in was totally different but great for other reasons. It was cut off from through traffic and very “Pleasantville” in a lot of ways…tree-lined, block parties, that sort of thing. It’s in a suburb that for the most part requires you to get in your car if you need to go anywhere. Everything we needed was only a 5-15 minute car ride away. As a teenager I thought it was dreadfully boring, but as an adult I can appreciate how lovely it was. It was quiet but close-knit; my current neighborhood is bustling but pretty antisocial. I’m not sure which I prefer.

I think I live in a pretty good neighborhood. I live in an older part of an older city of about 10,000 about twenty miles north of Milwaukee. I'm within half a mile of Lake Michigan. We're in a "turnover" neighborhood, for lack of a better word, where a lot of older people are passing away or leaving their homes and younger families are moving into the neighborhood. My house only cost $135,000 a little more than eleven years ago, and it's a decent size (1800 square feet, quarter acre) and all that. I love that our neighborhood has SIDEWALKS. I don't get neighborhoods around which you can't walk. It helps that a bike path passes about fifty yards from the house, too, and we can walk to the small harbor/downtown in about ten minutes. The neighborhood is pretty safe. All the kids at the elementary school leave their bikes unlocked all day outside the school. I think your neighborhood does matter, although I imagine most people could find a way to survive and even be happy in most neighborhoods.

What don't I like? Some of the people, but not everyone, here are a little (um, maybe more than a little) closed-minded. It's small town America, you know? But I like diversity of thought, and that's definitely here. There was a good mix of Obama and McCain signs back in election season.

http://www.ci.port-washington.wi.us/Phot...

I grew up in Florida, in and around Orlando. Before the 80s', the semi-suburban homes, the little town areas overtaken by growth, and the apartments were all similar - you knew the people around you at least by sight, some more. People sat in their front yards or on their porches in the evening and waved hello. Most places didn't have much in walking distance (walking isn't big in Orlando -- you drive or you stay home) but essential stuff was nearby.

After growth really hit and Orlando became a transient town -- people moved in for a year or two and then left -- all that changed. I rarely knew anyone, and it didn't pay to give too much attention to the neighbors. I lived in one house for 15 years and was barely on speaking terms with the family next door. I was inside only 4 other houses in the whole area (about 50-75 family homes) perhaps 6-7 times. Every house around us (all built in the same 2 year period) had been through 2-3 owners in that time (now I think , there is only 1 original owner in the whole neighborhood since we moved.) Again, no sidewalks and plenty of people thought the 25 MPH speed limit was just a suggestion. Rural-turned suburban, and without a car you went no where (no transit system in our area.)

Were I live now is very transient -- lots of college students there for a semester or two. I know my neighbor next door. Walking to anywhere is dangerous -- no sidewalks here. There's a little convenience store right next to the complex entrance. Housing around us (we are in townhomes) is varied from abandoned shacks to nice single family homes and everything in between. Just a few blocks from here is an area I would not walk through at all. Plenty of empty land and what used to be a large factory complex within a half mile of us.

I barely consider this place to be a neighborhood.

I've read that a good neighborhood is one where there is ice cream within walking distance. I would also like pizza nearby.

I do live in a good neighborhood, with parks, schools, and churches. I know all my neighbors, and am happy that they are well-educated and have similar politics to me - I saw them all at the caucus last year.

There's a supermarket within walking distance, although the video store closed, victim to Netflix. My dentist is two blocks away. And I can walk to downtown Olympia in 15 minutes.

Prompted by Sarah Pi's comment in the library thread that she lives in a city with good neighborhoods. What makes a good neighborhood? Do you live in one? Do you want to? Do you love/hate your neighborhood? What would make it better, or does your neighborhood really matter?