Saya's review

DISAGREE

Okay, but why do you disagree?

There relationship was not forced! Bella could have chosen to go away if she wanted to. Edward could have gone away, it shows in the second book. Bella is a strong heroin. She is brave, kind, selfless, and honest. It was kinda the point of the story for her to be clumsy to show that it's not only the cheerleaders that get to be the stars in life.

Oh, and there romance does grow. Rembember in the meadow? And obviously you haven't been in love because you can't explain why it happens it just does.

There characters do grow in New Moon. Edwdard learned that Bella loved him more than he believed any human could love. And also, Bella realized that Edward could never leave her again. In New Moon there was also the introduction of Jacob (Ew).

In Eclipse, Bella and Edward's love grows even stronger and we learn even more abouot the characters. Bella became extremely brave and Edward became very tolerant.

When I say forced, I mean that the strange (and unexplained) glitches in Bella were used as ways to make Bella more intriguing and draw Ed in; their love didn't begin because Ed was attracted to Bella for herself, it was because of these weird and unexplained traits. It is not explained why Bella is immune to vampire's mental gifts nor is it explained why Bella smells so good to not only Edward but to every single vampire- I would think someone in peak physical condition would smell tasty or there would be some sort of biological reason as to why certain humans smell so irresistible to certain vampires- but a reason is never given.

Bella isn't brave, she thoughtlessly throws herself into harms way like when she wandered around Port Angeles alone at night. She lived in Phoenix all her life and is supposed to be smart yet any city girl would know not to wander around a new area alone at night. Selfless: remember Eclipse, she wasn't selfless, she refused to let go of Jake, even at the very end she still wanted to see him. Bella was right that she was selfish. I fail to see how Bella is honest, she would lie a lot if she had any skill at lying; she isn't a liar nor a truth teller, she answered Ed's questions because he asked, that's all.

Bella didn't become brave at all. At what point did she overcome her fears and do something helpful; no, preparing to stab herself to protect others doesn't count nor does cliff diving for the sake of hearing Ed's voice count. Every time she is told to sit tight while the vampires try to protect her she insists on meddling: her mother in Phoenix- Bella falls for James' lie and hands herself over which seemed incredibly stupid and she tried to stab herself to distract the vampires at the end of Eclipse. Despite the infinite number of times vampires/werewolves have explained their power and how they would be fine, Bella still sees fit to sacrifice herself.

All Bella does is think about Edward and how hot his body is, occasionally she comments on how she doesn't deserve him because he is so selfless but that is very occasionally. We are always told about Ed physically and occasionally told about how selfless he is, how is that love? You're right, I've never been in love, but this is certainly not how true love is, true love is healthy, the lovers can exist without each other but choose to be together because they love each other. I do sense that feeling in Twilight, not so much in New Moon since Bella goes nutters, and I felt sick in Eclipse. Despite Bella knowing Ed loves her and won't leave her she is still incredibly clingy and even threatens to go crazy if Ed fights.

Their love was interesting at first but became as bad as a cheesy soap opera later on.

It's Edward, not Ed.

agreed.

I just don't feel like writing Edward every time I need to refer to him, how am I being disrespectful by shortening his name? I don't need to write Edward every time I need to refer to him; the only reason you people are picking at that detail is because you have nothing better to say and are being picky. Thanks for picking out that minuscule detail to comment on rather than contributing to the conversation. Prove me wrong and actually talk about the topic rather than being nit picky and rude.

Let me begin by saying that I simply did not have the time or the desire earlier to write an entire response to your review. The naming of characters is something very intense and crucial for an author. For those of us who love Edward, Stephenie Meyer included, it feels almost sacrilegious to shorten it to Ed. I fail to see how the difference in typing four more letters each time you mention Edward is that big of a deal.

As for their love being forced, I think you're equating what originally attracted them to each other with what makes them love each other. You never hear someone say that someone's personality or character drew them in from across the room. Those are things that you find out about someone, not something you can tell about someone when you pass them on the street or see them across a dance floor.

Bella's "glitches" are what makes her Bella. I believe that they may have attracted Edward to her because her clumsiness and her lack of self-confidence were so opposite from his seeming perfection. These things make her more human, both to Edward and to the readers. They also make her feel as though she does not fit in, which would make Edward see her as as kindred of sorts. Why Edward cannot read her mind is not explained, because they don't understand it. There isn't always an easy answer or explanation. Because this story is told from Bella's point of view, we only know what she knows.

Before I go any further, I want to make sure I say that this entire thread contains spoilers for the rest of the books and because I'm sure I'll reference them, if you haven't read all the books and don't want to know what happens, stop reading now. I know you've already seen a lot, but I don't want to ruin the expeience for you even more.

Bella does not smell so irresistable to every vampire. Edward tells her that if she smelled as irresistable to other vampires as she does to him, there would have been a fight right in the clearing. Him finding her smell so appealing is like some people loving a perfume and other people hating the smell, all be it greatly intensified in this case. The way she smells to him may be likened to the wolves imprinting. It's just something that happens without a clear explanation, they just are. Which brings me back to her explaining why she loves him.

I do not believe that I could put into words exactly why I love my husband. Yes, he is wonderful and has incredibly endearing qualities, but so do many other men. Not any that I dated before him, but that's beside the point. The point is what makes him special to me above all others is not something that I can explain. If you break someone down into characteristics and qualities, you can find another dozen just like them. But people don't work that way. There is something completely beyond human explanation or understanding that happens when two people fall in love with each other. It's an absolute miracle if you really think about it, and miracles generally defy explanation.

As for Bella contemplating stabbing herself in Eclipse, that was a totally selfless move. Also when she is tricked by James, she is willing to give up her own life to save her mother. These are not cowardly actions. Yes, she may throw herself in harms way when others try to convince her that they have it covered, but she also knows that they sometimes filter the truth in an effort to ease her mind.

She is selfish by wanting both Jacob and Edward, that's true. As much as people say that true love is selfless, that only applies to a certain point. She loves them both, but she recognizes that is is selfish and unfair. That doesn't mean that she can change how her heart feels simply because she knows something in her head.

I don't think that all Bella ever thinks about is how "hot" Edward's body is. She is simply overtaken by his beauty consistantly. It's part of being in love. Even as long as I've been with my husband I sometimes see a picture of him and think "Wow", and yes, like Bella, I think that I definitely don't deserve him. And as for true, healthy love being two people who could survive without each other but choose to be together...I don't know. If my husband were to leave, yes, I know that in reality my heart would continue to beat and I would continue to breath. But, were it not for my children, I would also, as you said, "go nutters" just as Bella did. I would cease to function as myself. The truest of love to me is when two people cease to be just that, two people. They become a couple, "and the twain shall be one", they rely upon each other, they "need" each other. In this age of women's lib, I'm sure that is an unpopular point of view, but it is mine.

She clings to him because she loves him. Even though he has said he will never leave her again, Bella is old enough to know that promises are sometimes broken. She is afraid of losing him. It truly seems to me that your biggest issues with the book are the things that make Bella truly human. She is also seventeen and you have to remember that when you consider her thoughts and actions. This is not a series of books for those who want to escape reality by reading about perfect people. These characters are real, imperfect, and "human", even the vampires. That is one of the reasons that I love these books.

Saya,

Just want to say that I understand and agree with some of your complaints. I, too, think the depth of the love between Edward and Bella is too shallow, at least in Twilight, which is the only book of the series I've read so far. But as you alluded, I think this has a lot to do with their relationship being their first, and we all know how shallow and idealized and inexplicable our first loves are. That love is better called infatuation. To me, "being in love" means being infatuated, and "having love for" means actually loving someone based on having gotten to know them, and there definitely is a difference.

It is human nature to be drawn to someone at first mainly for physical reasons. Infatuation grows from this physical appeal and is fueled by one's fantasies of the idealized relationship. Real love follows that. Or sometimes it doesn't, and that's when people move on. After just a few months in the first book, Edward and Isabella's love qualifies only for the infatuation period. That doesn't necessarily cheapen it, because that is a valuable period of love (you have to start somewhere). But it does mean that you have to take all those flowery declarations of love-ever-after with a serious chunk of salt. Bella certainly shouldn't make her mind up that she wants to become a vampire and spend eternity with Edward just because of this infatuation. Just as it would be unwise to commit to marriage during such a period. Of course, some people who do commit so early get lucky, but they likely would have gotten just as lucky if they had waited on the decision.

Overall I get your point, though I think I liked the book better than you. Maybe because I took the book for what it is: a romance novel. And romance novels are hardly realistic, but that's what makes them valuable. This type of fantasy is important to women, because life isn't like this. Just like how in a man's world, women aren't like porn stars, but that won't stop men from looking!

Good review.

P.S. Don't mind those nitpickers on "Ed". Crazy fanatics!

Bunsnip.com

The thing with book like this is that they are fairy tales. I have this discussion with people all the time. Yes, there are quite a few "coincidences" and what not but thats the point. its about the mysterious beyond, and the wonder of first love and soulmates. I don't think it's a fan girl vs. inner author thing, though perhaps it's because i hate the term fangirl. i find it terribly degrading. very few people could honesty say that buffy for example was a bad show. it was one of the first "teen" shows basically inventing a genre. yet it too holds the same sort of mystical ethereal love. its not about realism, realism misses the point. the points you make are true but not relevant because of genre. anyway this was basically a very long winded way of saying that while there are gaps in logic and sense its unimportant because at heart this is a fairy story.

Sorry if I offended you with fangirls- I understand why- but that's just how I view Twilight. While the part of me that likes an interesting romance with a character whose shoes and I can truly fill the other part points out the flaws in the story, the underdeveloped mythology and characters, and the jack-in-the-box villains, surprise- or not- vampire villains appear to add an action filled ending.

Amber, I would like to thank you for actually putting in so much effort into this argument, at first I was ticked at your response, but I am glad to know that a Twilight fan put so much effort into defending Bella and Edward.
Okay.
So what, I shortened a guy's name, the fact that so many people flew off the handle at that shows how- rabid these fans are. If nothing else, I shortened Edward's name to save characters.
Even though Bella doesn't smell as good to every vampire as she does to Edward, Alice, James, and I think even Laurent all admitted Bella smelled good- even the newborn vampires of Eclipse were driven to a feeding frenzy at the scent of her body, let alone her own blood.

Bella's attempt to stab herself was stupid, not selfless. Edward was fine- okay Seth appeared to be in danger but to actually stab herself! She constantly considers sacrificing herself to the newborns, she was planning to sneak away/bide her time so her bad luck would get her (sounds like she wanted to go find the newborns). Despite how many times people have told her they would fight anyway. It's as if Bella is either too scared to ever think rationally or doesn't trust Edward, the Cullens, and/or werewolfs enough that they can fight Victoria and the newborns. She never considers that he will be fine- she's too scared to think of anything else beside killing herself/spilling her blood.
Even though Bella is 17-18 she is constantly portrayed as mature: She reads Austen and other classics for fun, listens to Debussy, and can handle financial and legal information! I'd expect that at some point Bella would start to grow as a character and long for humanity without her only real ties being Jacob that ever insight regret in her. But she doesn't- she grows more clingy and dependent.
As for the love argument... well I've never been in love which makes arguing this difficult. But when I look at my parents, happily married, I can see that though they don't kiss and hug everyday, they argue over misunderstandings, and they both have individual problems, they love each other. I know that if I fall in love I don't want the rest of my life to revolve around the person- unable to breathe properly without them by my side. Perhaps it's only because of Bella's biased POV that understanding Edward is so difficult for me. But she just goes on and on about him and I just wish we saw Edward's gushy side more often because then I could see how he sees Bella.
Of course, my complaints come from the sequels and hardly from Twilight itself- hehehe- so I really shouldn't have mentioned the issues the characters have in the sequels here.
Thanks again for writing so much.

saya
the Twilight series is a fantasy I think that edward and bella love each other so much. they don't even know how much they love each other. sure the love might be a little unrealistic but thats what is great about the book you wouldn't have that relationship in every day life. it allows you to daydream I'm pretty offended by what you say about Edward how can you talk like that when you've only read twilight the love bella and edward have is so strong and passinate it blows my mind. edward is not a drug bella's life would've stayed the same if edward didn't come so what if she loves edward so much why are you so against that theres nothing wrong with love! you call bella stupid but she just wants to help she just doesn't want to see the people she loves in danger you haven't experienced love how should you know and bella and edward do get in fights sometimes
but overall they just love each other so much
I agree with amber and those other girls i agree with but thanks saya for expressing your feelings read the other two books

Why does everyone assume that because I don't praise Edward like a god that I haven't read the sequels? I have, Edward just gets worse later on.
I can easily speak down about Edward because I have NO IDEA what he's like from his own POV- yes, I have read the first chapter of Midnight Sun.

I think that Edward is protective in the third one because he's afraid he'll lose Bella and it is so hard for him. Would you rather have Bella choose J.B.? I wouldn't! There's nothing wrong with Edward! How does he get worse in the other two? There love just gets stronger and when Midnight Sun comes out you'll really see Edward for who he is

Well, the thing is, is that I have always preferred mortality to immortality, so that makes me prefer Jake to Edward. I want to age, maybe have kids, have a career, see my friends and family, and certainly not leave all that for the sake of a guy who is so perfect it gets annoying. I like my guys with rough edges- not like a bad boy.

No, I wouldn't prefer it had Bella chosen Jake because he was a real *** in Eclipse.

Edward is too controlling, he doesn't trust Bella enough to consider she might really love him- a fair argument given how obssessed she is with his looks. But even after New Moon where he pledged his love, he still denies Bella what she wants most, refusing to turn her unless she marries him first, always trying to prolong her decision, and then controlling her decisions such as instigating an argument between Charlie and Bella just so Bella would want to go to Florida. Edward didn't seem to love her at all, but treated her like a possession, just like Jacob. At least Edward promised to let Bella have her way since he was tired of hurting her with his controlling behavior.

I don't think Edward is too controlling I think Edward just wanted to keep her safe, for example in Florida he wanted her to go because Victoria was coming to Forks. The marry thing I agree that is a little pushy but at the end of Eclipse in the meadow he says to her she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do like the big wedding or marry first before she becomes a vampire or have to wait after the marrige to have you know so at the end even Charlie agrees Edward is always the good guy I agree Jake is a *** in New Moon and Eclipse

But Bella didn't want to go, she didn't think going to Florida so soon after her punishment was over was a good idea but Edward manipulated her into arguing to go with Charlie despite the 12 werewolves and seven vampires protecting her from only one vampire. It just seems too controlling, especially when considering that Edward and Jake merely hid Bella in the mountain range rather than fly out of the state or even to another country when 20 newborn vampires and two adult vampires were in the vicinity.

The reason Edward did that is because he was worried if Victoria came sometime when Edward isn't there she'd kill Bella as for the camping they had the werewolves and the vampires ready to strike and Edward and Jake were with her it was more safe the other time Edward didn't know what to do. What Edward did was right he doesn't try and do whats best for him he does whats best for Bella. You should give him some credit remember in the meadow he is always there for her

I'm just saying he should at least tell Bella what's going on, if he doesn't and he tries to make her do something she doesn't want to do, even if it is for the best, is is controlling her.

He's scared she might get uoset

It's still unfair, she was very upset with him for sneaking behind her back.

She was upset because Victoria was coming Edward just wants Bella to be safe unlike Jacob

i think i agree. this book was very, very half-decent. readable, but sometimes annoyingly easy. sometimes overly expository and tangential. also, (spoiler) the method by which edward saves our heroine, breaks the author's own rules about her own sci-fi, and i don't like that.
still, it was fun.

how did it break her own rules?