Mer's review

Careful where you swing that accusation. You don't know me at all.

If I'm so elitist and above-it-all, why are there droves of similarly frustrated reviewers on here from all sorts of backgrounds, writing the same exact thing? So many folks from completely different walks of life seem to think that this poorly-written, factually questionable book insults their intelligence.

I'm all for opening people's eyes to religious hypocrisy. But if you truly believe that "the MASSES" of perfectly sentient and intelligent folks in this country really need to be spoon-fed and led by the hand to such a degree, you're probably part of the problem.

Repeating myself for emphasis: "Don't believe the hype... You are profoundly more intelligent than this holiday page-turner gives you credit for." Does that really sound like something an elitist would say?

I'm not a rocket scientist or a member of the D.A.R.

Nor am I a snob, but thanks for the insult. It's a great way to wake up.

EDIT Note to anyone who thinks Scott and I are talking to ourselves here... a rather high-strung young man had stumbled across my review and basically threw a glorious, three-page tantrum cursing anyone who dares to disagree with him that "The DaVinci Code" is the best thing since sliced holy wafers. Unfortunately, he pussed out and deleted all of his posts. Sigh... if only someone had thought to save them for posterity. They were pretty awesome.

You really need to re-examine Mer's review. It seems like she struck a nerve in your own insecurity rather than truly came across as a "erudite" elitist.

If anything you betray the same classist elitism you accuse by praising the work of Dan Brown to open the minds of "the MASSES."

Bad information, bad writing, and poor education are all still poison even if they do contain grains of interest purloined from better minds. I don't see how soccer moms reading Holy Blood Holy Grail and whispering in hushed tones over their latte about the Priory of Scion, Magdalene, Jesus babies, and the infiltration of the Western Hermetic Tradition by evil albinos will in any way open their eyes to the real threat numbing their minds... Of course I mean the Bilderbirg, Evangelical Megachurches, Pat Robertson... oh wait I’m sorry... I mean the Catholic Church, yes them they control it all.. yeah right.

When it comes down to it I think you are the one who are showing a real sense of snobbery and elitism. You who praise the mediocre for leading others to enlightenment you presume to already hold.

Your vehemence betrays a lingering Christian guilt that colors your defense. I wonder how this might all play out if we were discussing how Jonathan Livingston Seagull opened your heart and mind to the endless possibilities of life, or maybe how Ayn Rand really speaks to you, or god forbid, The Celestine Prophecy …

It’s deeply telling that a trade paperback NYT bestseller was the first to open your eyes to the possibility of the Grail as a bloodline or that the catholic church has been politicizing its decisions since its beginning while trying to unify or destroy a mass of splintered Gnostic cults. Did you ever once wonder why Easter was named for a pagan goddess? Did no one ever channel surf past Discovery where you may have caught that many ancient Basilica are built on Pagan ruins? The Yule log? If you so blindly accepted these traditions it should not shock me at the slightest you are yet another blindly accepting “seeker” and one of the troglodytes touting this book which I personally find to be an annoyance at best and at worst as debasers to the greater sum of the collective intellect.

I mean, where have you been the past 10 years, reading Dean Koontz? I wouldn't wear it as a badge of honor that Dan Brown introduced you to concepts that are poorly presented, factually flawed, and altogether silly. These same ideas have been widely available a few short steps into the bookstore past the bestseller rack for decades! If it seemed you had used this as a springboard into more scholarly investigations of the topic I could be more understanding. I can tell by your current list of titles that you have barley moved beyond this Templar playpen since you closed the covers of that lofty tome.

Mer is not an elitist... In case you haven’t gathered by now, I am. I think you are childish in your faux intellectualism and nauseating soul searching the many faiths of the world to, as you say, "THINK FOR YOURSELF."

It is not a coincidence that the weak who need to be lead seek endlessly from one dogma to another cobbling together a theologically flawed quilt of culturally and contextually conflictive philosophies and consider themselves freed from some yoke of ignorance. Yes you are free! You are the Theological equivalent to a weekend scrapbook enthusiast. Go back and rifle feverishly through your copy of Catcher in the Rye and muse on what a phoney I am.

Oh, and for the record. Nothing becomes a cross market phenomena in the entertainment industry because “it does good.” This happens because it makes money off lazy fools like yourself. Trust me, I know ;)

It is my sincere hope that I hurt you, and I believe I did just that.
Now think about how you may have hurt a sweet girl who was expressing her opinion only to be called a snob in so many words by yourself this fine morning.
Think about how your inability to hold your overactive fingers from ticking out your defensive little missive brought this all about.

I’m not accusing you I’m simply reading you as the simple little booklet you are. Best of luck on finishing some more advanced reading. Set some goals, they are good for the soul.

Now consider your own pleas for respecting the minds of others. Were you not being disrespectful when you offered your unsolicited reply to Mer's review this morning and called her an "elitist."
Ponder that one.

As for Aleister... Did you actually page through 20 titles of some of the most inflammatory literature of the last two centuries until one name jumped out at you? No doubt it was from a vaguely recollected Geraldo episode. Thanks for the chuckle.

Other than an apology to Meredith, which I doubt will ever come... This discussion is at a close.

Praise the Lord!

Amazing!

You'd think that making sweeping generalizations about people who liked Da Vinci Code, and pigeonholing them into categories, and looking imperiously down upon them would be hurtful things to do, as Ryan suggests, and that it would leave you bitter and lonely, but it turns out it's just AWESOME.

A fictional account sometimes opens people's eyes to existence. I know I've experienced it. And sometimes those experiences happen with quite-unremarkable works--_The Fisher King_ film and _ROM: Spaceknight_ comics myself.

My friend counsels me regularly with good advice he drew from a blogger a long time ago. When talking taste, talk about what speaks to you or doesn't speak to you, what appeals to you or doesn't, what you hate or don't. Don't talk about your reaction to the THING as an objective experience. "This book is crap." "This movie sucks."

I thought Mer's review was virtiolic, fascinating, well-written, and inspiring. A review from a person who loves the ideas a book is based on but hates the book is powerful criticism. A reviewer who adored fantasy and children's books years ago described Harry Potter as pap and turned me onto Gormenghast. That is a man whose opinion I will cherish forever. Mer's delving into political and religious conspiracy in her reviews would lead me down that path with confidence. To find the books we want to read next, we depend on cherished friends' opinions here, but also experts whose words let us know there is a fiery dialogue between reader and read coming for us if we try out a few of their favorite books.

Stunning. Cheers. Happiness to all!

Peace out.

"everybody has an opinion and has a right to it"

Then why on earth are you sending comments to a complete stranger as if her dissatisfaction with the book somehow negates your reading experience? I don't always agree with reviewers, or even my friends, on what books I like or dislike, but that doesn't stop me from reading and from having a meaningful reaction to the texts I engage.

n.b. - I never got past the first chapter of The DaVinci code because the writing was so clumsy and off-putting, but from the criticism I've read of it, I'd be much more comfortable with it as a runaway bestseller if 1) if relied an more accurate research, 2) there weren't plot holes that you could drive a truck through, and 3) the prose wasn't so godawful. Really, you can write accessible literature without it being just *bad*.

p.s. hi Mer!

Mer - I don't know you from Adam (or Eve, or whatever) - but I agree completely with what you wrote and I laughed out loud at some of the comments from other counter-reviewers above.

I'm now off to have a look at the rest of your bookshelves and get my hands on anything you've given 5 stars to (within reason of course!. Ah yes, and Summer - that goes for you too :D
Have a good day, ladies
Em

Thank you, Emma. Yes, come and warm yourself by the towering FLAME WAR. *grin*

Be warned if you're not into comics that a lot of the books I gave five stars are actually graphic novels, and therfore my criteria for judging them was different than for, say, Murakami or Kant. :P

Otherwise, nerd up, sister!

Seconding the thanks, Emma! I'll also give the warning that most of my five-star reviews have gone to comics lately, but that's mostly because I'm only reviewing books I've read this year and I've just gone through the entire Love and Rockets series, which is fantastic.

ok - so how is it that the whole comic thing has passed me by?!! sigh. must be getting old ;)
Any thoughts on where a comics virgin (as opposed to comic...) should begin on a trail of comic discovery?

Box Office Poison (great twentysomething funny and angst). Blankets (religion and first love). Bone (cartoons morph into fantasy mythology, always fun).

Ah, a question that will make this comments thread run forever. Where to start, where to start...

A similar query would be: Any thoughts on where a movie virgin should begin a trail of movie discovery?

Depends on your tastes in other mediums. Fiction or non-fiction, high or low brow, sci-fi or slacker lit?

My short list for a comics newbie is:
Violent Cases by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean
-a good tour of the unique formal aspects of the medium

Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud
-a comic about comics that is entertaining and lights a fire for reading more

Clumsy by Jeffrey Brown
-for the soft-hearted indie boy in your heart, number one selling comic at my neighborhood non-comics bookstore

Jimmy Corrigan: Smartest Kid In The World by Chris Ware
-really amazing storytelling and design, beloved by the McSweeneys set, maybe the best graphic novel ever written

My friend Sean's list is here:
http://blogcritics.org/archive...

And Comicbookslut provides her list here:
http://www.bookslut.com/comicb...

I'd recommend _Persepolis_ for memoir and _La Perdida_ for literary adventure. Alan Moore's _From Hell_ is a mystical slasher story based on the Jack the Ripper case, and _Love and Rockets_ is a fantastic series that follows two main stories: daily life in a small Mexican village and punk rock girls living the low life outside of L.A. (I'd recommend starting with Book 2 of Love and Rockets, as Book 1 isn't as good an introduction to the series).

I'll second _Bone_ and _Jimmy Corrigan_. _Blankets_ was also quite good, but is depressing as hell.

The Sandman series by Neil Gaiman is very well loved by folks who don't like or know comics. Reading "Season of Mists" back in my teens is what graduated me from Spiderman, Batman and X-Men titles.

Anything by Alan Moore is pretty mindblowing to me. Watchmen, Swamp Thing, From Hell, all top notch.

Aaaand lessee.... Well, yeah, definitely Love and Rockets.

Moonshadow by John J. Muth and Jim DeMatteis is beautiful and whimsical. Another non-comic-reader comic book.

Cages by Dave McKean.

Bone by Jeff Smith.

Black Hole by Charles Burns, anything by Al Columbia, and certain Dan Clowes books all offer creepy atavistic thrills.

In the badasses with charming accents category, there's Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, and Garth Ennis. They've all put out some classic stuff (check out their DC/Vertigo output first) that is simultaneously very accessible, whipsmart and an utter mindfuck.

Paul Pope's work, though sometimes a bit erratic, is always toothsome. I particularly love his THB books, and a slim volume entitled Escapo.

Epileptic by David B.

Any and all Moebius if you're looking for pure visual sci fi overload/visual spectacle.

Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Squee and Bad Art Collection if your angsty inner 13 year old goth needs appeasing.

I'll bring up more when I have a bit more time...

EDIT Heh. RAD. Looks like a bunch of folks beat me to it! Seeing a lot of repeated names and titles. Everything everyone's recommending is great, really. Can't go wrong. THE JOY OF COMIX!!!

Oh! Oh! Also?

Anyone on this list who has not yet read SNAKE N' BACON'S CARTOON CABARET should get a copy immediately. Bring it on the bus, read it when you need to laugh out loud.

Seriously one of the weirdest, funniest things I've ever read. Michael Kupperman is so, so underrated.

Transmet is a classic alright. And once you get to know the genre a bit better, Planetary and Next Wave are amazing send-ups as well.

Warren's description of Next Wave:

"It’s an absolute distillation of the superhero genre. No plot lines, characters, emotions, nothing whatsoever. It’s people posing in the street for no good reason. It is people getting kicked, and then exploding. It is a pure comic book, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. And afterwards, they will explode."

Well, well, ladies n gents, I *do* seem to have hit a rich seam of information here, don't I?! :)

I had a lovely long post all lined up but my browser logged me out and now I'm going to have to rewrite the whole thing. Sigh. The long and short of my post was this: Is this a suitable list?

1) Love & Rockets (book 2?)
2) Moonshadow by John J. Muth and Jim DeMatteis
3) Bone by Jeff Smith
4) Jimmy Corrigan
5) Ex Machina

I have very little exposure to comics (see below) but perhaps my taste in films would be a better pointer than my taste in written literature, so I would ask you to consider this list with the following in mind:

LIKE: (films/tv): X-Men; Mad Max; any mainly plot-devoid goodie v baddie action adventure with schwarzenegger/van damme/seagal et al that isn't too psychologically disturbing; Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon & similar in genre; Blade; James Bond (last one easily the best since Dr No); Ocean's Eleven; more or less anything with fast cars in. That's definitely the 'frivolous' end of my film taste. If I don't simply need entertaining, then recent films i've seen and enjoyed include 'Shooting Dogs,' 'The Constant Gardener,' 'The Prestige'...

DISLIKE: Dr Who/Torchwood; Dune; any horror movie and most psychological thrillers, inc Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho etc; I liked Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs but most of the rest of Tarantino you can keep... I'm not crazy about subject matter that fucks with my mind - I'm plenty capable enough of doing that by myself!!

My exposure to comics/graphic novels (is this similar to the difference between a short story and a novel in non-graphic literature? or are comics normally like chapters in a story?) is limited to the following:

- Calvin & Hobbes (love, love, love)
- some Anime (which I thought was artistically awesome but the subject matter was a little disturbing (this may have had something to do with the fact that this was hard core anime and i've never seen cartoon characters with breasts and bits like that before!!! my then bf *really* liked it, but that's a whole different story...)
- When the Wind Blows by Raymond Biggs (sp?) - I was eleven and it made me *completely* paranoid for a while!

My taste in non-graphic written literature ranges pretty widely from Shackleton's diaries to Joseph Conrad, Flaubert to Umberto Eco, the Brontes to Kerouac with a little early Douglas Coupland and F. Scott Fitzgerald thrown in for good measure.

With all of the above in mind, how does my list look?

Ah yes, and most important, where does one buy such a thing? Is there going to a hitherto undiscovered corner of my local bookshop that sells them?

Sorry about the length of this post (you should have seen the original!) - I look forward to your replies :D
Em

free sounds good, but i'm apparently the wrong side of the pond for that..

Also - please, what's a TPB?

watch out ebay, here i come... :D

and RPG? presumably not Rocket Propelled Grenade? :)

Thanks for all your help :D

ok, so, can i just check that i'm getting this right?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Love-and...

or, as recommended by Summer:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Love-and...


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOONSHAD...


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Jeff-Smi...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WARE-Chr...
(might pass on this one - £80!!!!)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ex-Machi...

thanks!

Yeah, I'd recommend getting Jimmy Corrigan from the library if you can find it. £80 is a little bit too expensive! I actually get a lot of my comics from the library, but then, I work for the Harvard University system, so I have a lot to choose from.

Also, since you're in the U.K., you should be able to get ahold of Neil Gaiman's _Sandman_ books, as he's a British author. I've known several people who have gotten into more "literary" comics reading through the Sandman series.

If you like the anime style, Osamu Tezuka's _Buddha_ series is amazing and wonderful. It's a highly fictionalized account of the life of the first Buddha, and is very cinematic in quality.

Hate to throw my fire on your already blistering-hot comic book list, but if you like Mad Max, you'll LOVE Y: The Last Man ... a post-apocalyptic book with good gender issues and HUMOR. Snazzy stuff.