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Tatiana's Reviews > Fire
Fire (Graceling Realm, #2)
by Kristin Cashore
by Kristin Cashore
Tatiana's review
bookshelves: 2009, fantasy, ya, ala-ya-2010, tres-annoying, 2012
Jan 31, 12
bookshelves: 2009, fantasy, ya, ala-ya-2010, tres-annoying, 2012
Read from January 27 to 31, 2012, read count: 2
Unlike Graceling, Fire doesn't get better upon rereading.
The core of my issues with it remains the same, specifically Cashore's nontraditional approach to marriage and women's empowerment. I'll elaborate on it later. But besides that, this time this book is just boring. I think I was pretty generous to give Fire 3.5 stars 2 years ago. I now feel it deserves at least 1 star less. Too much navel-gazing, too much contemplating and whining and crying on Fire's part without enough action and romance to balance things out, too much talk of periods and cramps. Plus, the nature of Fire's power is such that even the most climactic part of the novel comes off as an over-complicated non-event.
I still think there is an improvement in Cashore's writing in terms of world-building. But, after reading Megan Whalen Turner's novels that were, undoubtedly, an inspiration to Cashore, Fire pales in comparison. The intrigues, the politics of it are only weak shadows of those of Attolia.
And now onto the main concerns. I think it's certainly brave of an author to create novels where heroines are different from the so-called norm. Cashore writes young women craving full independence, undesiring of long-term partners and children. That's fine. But I can't help but be disappointed in how all women are portrayed in Fire. They all are not exactly immoral, but definitely lacking in scruples, dignity and caution. They cheat, the sleep with everyone around, they get pregnant when they have resources not to, they don't care if they are cheated on, they, to me, seem to think they don't deserve love, monogamy or at least respect. The men are no better, they are indiscriminately cheaters, philanderers and rapists. I'll be hard-pressed to find even one healthy, committed relationship between a man and a woman in this book, a relationship where participants are equal partners in all decisions, including those concerning procreation. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe a man should have a say in the decisions about child-bearing as well.
As a result, Fire is full to the brim with illegitimate children (literally, almost everyone in the book is a bastard or a result of a rape) and excessive amount of casual, adulterous and forced sex. It's a soap opera!
And it's boring and would have benefited from some tightening up.
I don't think I'll be reading Fire again.
The core of my issues with it remains the same, specifically Cashore's nontraditional approach to marriage and women's empowerment. I'll elaborate on it later. But besides that, this time this book is just boring. I think I was pretty generous to give Fire 3.5 stars 2 years ago. I now feel it deserves at least 1 star less. Too much navel-gazing, too much contemplating and whining and crying on Fire's part without enough action and romance to balance things out, too much talk of periods and cramps. Plus, the nature of Fire's power is such that even the most climactic part of the novel comes off as an over-complicated non-event.
I still think there is an improvement in Cashore's writing in terms of world-building. But, after reading Megan Whalen Turner's novels that were, undoubtedly, an inspiration to Cashore, Fire pales in comparison. The intrigues, the politics of it are only weak shadows of those of Attolia.
And now onto the main concerns. I think it's certainly brave of an author to create novels where heroines are different from the so-called norm. Cashore writes young women craving full independence, undesiring of long-term partners and children. That's fine. But I can't help but be disappointed in how all women are portrayed in Fire. They all are not exactly immoral, but definitely lacking in scruples, dignity and caution. They cheat, the sleep with everyone around, they get pregnant when they have resources not to, they don't care if they are cheated on, they, to me, seem to think they don't deserve love, monogamy or at least respect. The men are no better, they are indiscriminately cheaters, philanderers and rapists. I'll be hard-pressed to find even one healthy, committed relationship between a man and a woman in this book, a relationship where participants are equal partners in all decisions, including those concerning procreation. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe a man should have a say in the decisions about child-bearing as well.
As a result, Fire is full to the brim with illegitimate children (literally, almost everyone in the book is a bastard or a result of a rape) and excessive amount of casual, adulterous and forced sex. It's a soap opera!
And it's boring and would have benefited from some tightening up.
I don't think I'll be reading Fire again.
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Reading Progress
| 10/25/2009 | page 70 |
|
13.26% | |
| 10/29/2009 | page 235 |
|
44.51% | "I like it, but what's with all the numerous illegitimate children and periods?" |
| 10/31/2009 | page 320 |
|
60.61% | 4 comments |
| 01/27/2012 | page 96 |
|
21.0% | 8 comments |
Comments (showing 1-50 of 128) (128 new)
message 1:
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Crystal
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rated it 2 stars
Oct 24, 2009 05:30pm
I can't wait to hear what you think about this one.
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I'll see how it end, but most likely I'll get it in PB later on. What I am ready to say now about this book is that it would make a beautiful movie. You'll see what I mean
Hmmm, usually when I think that, I get a few sketches out of the book. Good deal. Actually, I think the same thing about Hush Hush, I think that story would translate much better in movie format.
So, how are you feeling about it now that you are a little further along in the story, good, bad or still undecided?
I am not quite sure yet. I like the writing, but some things just confused me. I don't know what to think of it yet.
I'm not qutie clear on that one myself but I took it to mean a "monster" in human form just held certain abilites than normal humans couldn't achieve. For example Fire being able to take hold of a mind, sensing her surroundings, and her beauty. "Monster" animals were just that animals. I don't know how Fire and her father became human monsters though.
I agree I think she fell way short on the monster thing. IMO this book shouldn't be considered part of Graceling since it is a totally different world.
It's actually a companion novel, not really connected to Graceling, except for it's set in the same "universe" and Leck is mentioned a little, so that doesn't really bother me. It's exactly what Cashore promised. But for sure, the graceling concept worked better than monster.
Thank you. I am still torn over it. Maybe I'll have a more solid opinion when I re-read it. Do you think Cashore has something against women having children and getting married? I am starting to see a trend in her writing.
I like your review too :)I wonder if the reason Cashore writes things such as illigit children, casual and or adulterous s*x and not wanting to have children is because noone else in YA does. I agree, a majority of people probably won't respond to it, but I for one, think its refreshing to find a book with a strong heroine that doesn't have to buy into the cliche of what is expected.
I wondered the same thing T. I think that if Bitterblue makes these same choices then I would say she definitely has an issue there. I like that she let's here characters choose what is best for them I just don't like how she keeps that decision a central part of the story.
Well Cashore has a child, so I don't think she has issues with women having children. I think she has issue with women having children because they feel like they are supposed to.
I don't think so Heather. I don't have anything against not having children or marrying, but she does it heavy-handedly. It's hard to not to feel that she has her personal agenda behind it. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be independent, I just don't think independence has anything to do with deciding not to be married. As for illegitimate children and adultery, see what you think after you are done reading it. It's just EVERYBODY does it. You know I am not a prude or a moralist, but sometimes too much is too much.
Heather wrote: "Well Cashore has a child, so I don't think she has issues with women having children. I think she has issue with women having children because they feel like they are supposed to."Fire does want to have children. I am just not sure why Cashore is so fixated on the subject, as if it is the main thing in every woman's life - to decide if she wants to have a child or not. And in Cashore's case - it's "not," no matter how far fetched that reason is.
Crystal wrote: "I wondered the same thing T. I think that if Bitterblue makes these same choices then I would say she definitely has an issue there. I like that she let's here characters choose what is best for ..."I was thinking the same. If Bitterblue is going to be centered around the same "issue," she has something personal going on.
I agree T she repeats it continously throughout the book.I was so aggravated by the end of the book because it was just like a soap opera. I was so confused at one point as to which kid belonged to who.
Crystal wrote: "I agree T she repeats it continously throughout the book.I was so aggravated by the end of the book because it was just like a soap opera. I was so confused at one point as to which kid belonged ..."
I know. One or two I can take, but I lost count by the end of the book.
Well, actually I think it is one of the most important decisions in anyone's life I think. There aren't that many choices a person could make that would affect their lives as much as having a child would. Perhaps this theme occurs in Cashore's books because her narrators are female, of age, and must decide for themselves what they want and if what they want is what they need.
I felt like Cashore had too many side stories going on. She introduced so many characters and there were a few I would have liked to learn more about. It makes me wonder if she will keep writing companion novels since she has so many people to chose from.
Heather wrote: "Well, actually I think it is one of the most important decisions in anyone's life I think. There aren't that many choices a person could make that would affect their lives as much as having a chil..."I understand her trying to show that it is a choice but she falls short of accomplishing this because she let's a 15 year old get pregnant. Her pregnancy could have been avoided if she would have found the herbs so I'm not sure what she is thinking.
Well, I haven't read Fire yet, but sounds to me like Cashore is writing life. In life, we have BC and yet 15 year old girls get pregnant. In life most women choose to have children and those of us who don't are frowned upon much like Katsa is frowned upon for not wanting children. And just like in life, some people want children but for whatever reason, don't have them either because they can't or know that because of something within themselves or their environment, know that they shouldn't.
Heather wrote: "Well, I haven't read Fire yet, but sounds to me like Cashore is writing life. In life, we have BC and yet 15 year old girls get pregnant. In life most women choose to have children and those of us..."I get it, but a 17-year old doesn't have to make that decision IMO. Plus why both her heroines are burdened with this decision I have no clue. I am just saying there is a pattern.
Crystal wrote: "I felt like Cashore had too many side stories going on. She introduced so many characters and there were a few I would have liked to learn more about. It makes me wonder if she will keep writing ..."I agree Crystal, I think she writes secondary characters very well. I wouldn't mind reading more about several of them
Crystal wrote: "Heather wrote: "Well, actually I think it is one of the most important decisions in anyone's life I think. There aren't that many choices a person could make that would affect their lives as much ..."Crystal, do you remember, she has like 3 pregnant women in the end at the some time? I thought it was a bit bizarre...
Heather wrote: "Well, actually I think it is one of the most important decisions in anyone's life I think. There aren't that many choices a person could make that would affect their lives as much as having a chil..."Yeah, but not at 17 and when they just fell in love with someone.
I don't know. I see where you are coming from with their ages, but, this world is a bit different from our own. At 17, they are adults, at least from what I gather, and regardless, I always think it's wise to be responsible if you are going to be intimately involved as Katsa was and it sounds like Fire is. If 5 year olds can decide they want to get married and have babies, I see no reason why a 17 year old, s*xually active female can't decide that she doesn't.I know that when I was 17, I didn't really want to get married or have babies but everywhere I turned either in movies, on T.V. or in books, marriage and babies were the only option. I sort of thought something was wrong with me that I didn't want either of these things. So I think it's great that Cashore writes about these issues. Granted, at 17 you may change your mind, but its very likely that at 17, you are thinking about these things.
Again, I understand what you mean. I also agree that 17 is not the age when your decisions are set in stone. Her heroines are just so determined to make it final as if they are 35 year-olds. If so, Cashore maybe needs to write adult fiction. I am fine with let's say Elena to say no to marriage and children, but to hear it from a teenager is just strange.
I don't know. I knew at 17 and still at 24, my decision remains the same. Do I think most 17 year olds make a choice and then stick with that choice their whole lives, no, but I think its great that there is a YA book out there that is acknowledging that some people do make these types of decisions at that age or are at least thinking about it, and I think its great that they not only read a book where someone their age is thinking about such things but is also contemplating like minded choices.I guess I see 17 as young, but I don't understand why adults don't like to think that a 17 year old is capable of this kind of logic. Its a type of censorship to say that such topics aren't fitting of YA. I personally wish that more 17 year olds thought about these things. It might lessen the divorce rate or unwanted or unplanned pregnancy rates if they did. If they are doing the deed, they need to be aware and be able to contemplate the reprocussions and need to somewhat know what they want out of life.
Well, you are on Cashore's side, that's for sure. Mostly because your views on marriage are similar to hers I think. It's just makes me even more convinced that she is following her personal agenda here. I am sending you the book today, I am curious to see what you think of it all once you actually read it. Right now you are defending it merely based on your matching world views. I was talking here more of the literaly merit of the book...
Tatiana wrote: "Crystal wrote: "Heather wrote: "Well, actually I think it is one of the most important decisions in anyone's life I think. There aren't that many choices a person could make that would affect thei..."Yes and that is where my problem with Cashore comes from. I agree that it is great to have a book where women get to decide what is right for them but keep it consistent. It felt like she didn't want to complicate her heroines life but still felt the need to drastically change her secondary characters lives. Added to that they way she incorporated the pregnancies was total shift change for me. In Graceling it made sense for Katsa to be against babies and I can even see why Fire is opposed to it but I don't think it should have been a main point in the story. Did Cashore ever address whether Brigan wantd children?
I would love to see a book about Cansrel. I want the twisted stuff lol.
Tatiana wrote: "Well, you are on Cashore's side, that's for sure. Mostly because your views on marriage are similar to hers I think. It's just makes me even more convinced that she is following her personal agenda..."I am interested in how you will feel about this one too.
Heather I'm asking stuff with spoilers beware =)T how did you feel about what happened to Archer? I thought it was rather cruel.
I would love some twisted stuff too. Leck was one twisted boy. But I am pretty sure we won't have it. If she writes from a male POV, who will be whining about not getting married and having kids:)
I'll wait and see if my opinoin of Cashore's writing changes once I have read it.But, for the record, saying that I am pro-Cashore simply because I have similar life choices would be like me telling those who are anti-Cashore that their distaste is simply because she writes about opposing life choices.
Crystal wrote: "Heather I'm asking stuff with spoilers beware =)T how did you feel about what happened to Archer? I thought it was rather cruel.
"
I didn't have time to form an opinion actually, it happened so fast. And then it turns out he is killed by his bilogical father!
That story line about Leck seemed like an afterthought, don't you think? Like, if he weren't there, nothing would have changed in that world. If he were helping one of the sides to win, that would have made sense, but he was just somewhere in the background plotting to k!ll or capture her.
God, I might have to change my rating to 3 later...
Heather wrote: "I'll wait and see if my opinoin of Cashore's writing changes once I have read it.But, for the record, saying that I am pro-Cashore simply because I have similar life choices would be like me te..."
I don't oppose Cashore's choices, I am just confused by the way she handles it in her books (I mean here the story lines), this one particularly.
I didn't think Leck was supposed to be a major player in this one, Cashore said the would be mentioned in it, but she never said how large a role he would play.
Tatiana wrote: "I would love some twisted stuff too. Leck was one twisted boy. But I am pretty sure we won't have it. If she writes from a male POV, who will be whining about not getting married and having kids:) "You are probably right the men seem to have no problem with kids lol.
