Ceridwen's Reviews > Persuasion

Persuasion by Jane Austen

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1055856
's review
Mar 29, 09

bookshelves: janeites, rule-britannia, capital-r-romantic
Read in March, 2009, read count: 2

I believe it is customary at the beginning of any discussion of Austen's work to line up her books and discuss which ones are the favorites, the most mature, the most critically acclaimed. Such as: Pride and Prejudice is clearly her most liked, but the heroine of Emma really is a better model of someone being confronted by their limitations and learning from them again and again. Fanny Price is the most morally assured, the elder Miss Dashwood the most practical, the best this, the most that, et&c. It's weird. Why we do this? Is it because Austen is a girl, writing about girl-things? Because there are only six books?

Anyway, here goes mine: Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel. I'm not exactly sure why. Of course, I, like everyone, loves me my Lizzie Bennet. But I've never been quite easy with her epiphany at Darcy's estate. Why there, surrounded by her spurned lover's pile of furnishings and stuff, did she understand that she never knew herself? The answers bother me. It's too, I dunno, bourgeois or something. (I know, I know, it really doesn't do to bring up this sort of language when talking about Austen, but there it is.)

I like the difference between Anne and the narrator. The narrator says terrible things, is prickly and funny, and does all the social mockery that Austen is best at. Her conjuring and dismissal of Dick Musgrove is truly brutal, and hysterical in its brutality. Anne is nothing of this. She is docile, domestic, competent and extremely forgiving. You'd probably want to punch her in the face. But the narrator doesn't lionize her, doesn't set her up as “perfection itself” (as Wentworth says, in the end). Indeed, Anne isn't even mentioned until several pages into the book, but she slowly appears, like someone being unwrapped. A corpse, or a lover. Both at once.

I like Anne and her regret. I like the silences she shares with Captain Wentworth. Reading this time, I noticed how little was actually said by our protagonists, how their silent misunderstanding tips slowly into silent understanding. Even Wentworth's declaration, the mending of the breach, is done in a letter, not with a voice, a rush of declarations. Those silent, speaking words themselves are penned while Wentworth eavesdrops, listening to Anne's quiet demurrings about her gender's capacity for pain and loss. Ah. And again, ah.

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Reading Progress

03/19/2009 page 78
25.32% "Ah, Jane. Poor Dick Musgrove (remember him? Of course you don't. He had the good sense to die at 20.)"
03/21/2009 page 119
38.64% "Henrietta falls! The surgeon!"

Comments (showing 1-35 of 35) (35 new)

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Elizabeth I like your comments about the silences. That is what they do. And the distinction between Anne and the Narrator! Brilliant. These are really interesting points.



Chris You might like to read A. S. Byatt's comments about the book. She points out the silences as well as the fact that Anne and Wentworth know when the other is in the room, even if they don't see each other.


Elizabeth Oh! Where does Byatt talk about Austen? I love Byatt. I'd love to read that. Thanks.


Ceridwen Oooo. Byatt talking about Austen. This sounds very good. Do you know what book that's in?


Chris It's in Imagining Characters. Its actually a book conversation between Byatt and Ignes Sodre. (I misquoted her a litte, sorry) They're discussing Mansfield Park and Byatt says when she discussing Austen's female characters and attraction, ". . . you know that Anne worships the ground Captain Wentworth walks on and feels his presence in a room wherever she happens to be sitting."
Sodre adds, "Even though she doesn't see him."
Byatt responds, "Even if she can't see him. She knows he's there. So it isn't a question of Jane Austen having written about sexual passion in youth and having stopped in the novels of her maturity." (page 22).

There are six conversations in the book about Austen, Morrison, Elliot, Charlotte Bronte, Cather, and Murdoch. The book is hard to find in the State though (this seems to be true of all Byatt's non fiction). I found my copy in a used bookstore in Montreal. The owner of the store said he had to special order them from the U.K. Her book about Wordsworth and Coleridge is good as well (it's called Unruly Times).


Elizabeth Thank you, C. I actually own and have read that book and didn't remember the discussion at all. Sounds like it's time to read it again!


Ellen I have to admit I skimmed this review, because I'm in the middle of reading Persuasion, and didn't want to learn too much!


message 8: by Whitaker (new)

Whitaker Lovely. I liked this line in particular: Reading this time, I noticed how little was actually said by our protagonists, how their silent misunderstanding tips slowly into silent understanding.



message 9: by Eric (new) - added it

Eric It seems every day I come across something (a PBS promo, an eyecatching edition, this great review) that nudges me to read Persuasion soon after I finish Mansfield Park. Fanny is an absorbing study and I feel good knowing there's Anne to look forward to.





message 10: by Ceridwen (last edited Feb 22, 2010 10:23am) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ceridwen Thanks Whitaker! I'm looking forward to your review, Ellen! I'm pretty sure I've horribly misjudged Fanny Price, because I accidentally hated her. Elizabeth gave me an excellent lecture once about how abused and powerless Fanny is, and how she struggles so quietly and morally within an abusive system. (Not a bad lecture, Elizabeth, a good one.)

Some day I'll have to re-read, esp. when I realized that the villainess - what's her name? the woman stringing Edmund along? - is a Dark-side-of-the-Force Elizabeth Bennett. She's clever, she's funny, she's got all the best lines, but she's wrong, wrong, wrong. Interesting, because I think that MP was the last novel Austen wrote - although maybe it was published last? My Austen arcana's a little rusty.


Elizabeth Ceridwen wrote: "Thanks Whitaker! I'm looking forward to your review, Ellen! I'm pretty sure I've horribly misjudged Fanny Price, because I accidentally hated her. Elizabeth gave me an excellent lecture once about ..."

I did? Well, it's true. Fanny is awesome and one of the best depictions of a survivor of emotional abuse that I've seen before the late twentieth century. :-)

And you're right about Mary Crawford. It's about morality. Elizabeth Bennett, for all her irony and sass, has a strong moral center. Mary does not, and that's her downfall.

And Mansfield Park wasn't the last novel. It was written before Emma and Persuasion. Persuasion was the last finished novel.


Ceridwen Aha! I always get the order wrong. I'm always fascinated by Austen's notions of the moral center, because she's always talking about education - who has one, and of what kind, and whether it corrupts or enlightens. One's education doesn't always align with one's moral sense, and an education can pervert a moral sense, although she doesn't fall into that Rousseauian nature-child crap that makes me insane.

And it was a really good sermonette, Elizabeth, I hope I didn't sound bitchy. It's around here somewhere on a thread, but I don't know which one anymore. :)


Elizabeth I didn't take it that way, Ceridwen. I think the sermonette is at the end of the comments on my review of Pride of Prejudice. It wasn't in Mansfield Park (where it should be). I need to rewrite that review. I'm not happy with it (or my persuasion review, actually). There's so much more to say! Sigh.


Ceridwen There's so much more to say! Sigh.

No kidding! I think I had a huge digression about the Persuasion narrator in my Frankenstein review, which I should probably cut-and-paste over here, but then it's out of context, and then I'd have to re-write to fit it in, and then ah, oh bother, I'm mid-way through writing a review for some other thing, and reading something else, so forget it. :)


Elizabeth No, you have to leave it in Frankenstein! It was excellent. Hey, most of my The Eyre Affair review is about The Wasteland. That's part of the fun. :-)


message 16: by Sandy (last edited Feb 22, 2010 07:12pm) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sandy Tjan Ceridwen wrote: "Thanks Whitaker! I'm looking forward to your review, Ellen! I'm pretty sure I've horribly misjudged Fanny Price, because I accidentally hated her. Elizabeth gave me an excellent lecture once about ..."

Ceridwen, I also didn't like Fanny Price (and Edmund). They seemed to be uptight pricks to me, although after a while I came to think of Fanny as an admirable survivor. I can see why she is the moral center of the story --- and I still don't like her. lol

I thought that MP is the most blatantly preachy of all Austen books, and perhaps my least favorite. I love Persuasion, though.


Ceridwen I'm pretty sure I'll never love Fanny, but I might appreciate her better with a little compassion. Anne's quiet is so compelling - and it's not dissimilar from Fanny's quiet - although Anne has the advantage of being born rich and titled. May we all be so lucky! Or, um, wait...


Elizabeth I love Fanny. She's shyer than Anne and less resolute (Henry does almost win her over) and she grows tired of the family's whining and she so much wants to be a part of things, but knows she should not. I have always wondered if she had been embraced as part of the family and cared for by Mrs Norris, would she have become as corrupt as the other girls? Or would that be impossible because by the very nature of their moral corruption, they would never embrace someone who is dependent on the family?

Sorry, got distracted. Anne is my favorite too. I love that she loves poetry and wanders the woods sighing to herself when she runs out of poets to recite to herself. So sweet and funny and tragic. It's all the sensibility of Marianne with intelligence, strength, and direction added in.


Ceridwen I love how passionate about Fanny you are, Elizabeth! I also love how Anne gives Benwick a prescription of more prose in his diet. Sensible sorts like Anne can subsist on poetry, but splenetic fellows like Benwick need to dial it down.

This may be a whole bunch of gasoline - burn BURN - but the adaption of Persuasion with Ciaran Hinds and Amanda Root is one of my favorite Austen adaptions. The more recent one, many not so much, but I don't think it was a betrayal or anything.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114117/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844330/


Elizabeth Really, you think Anne running through the streets like a prostitute dragging her crippled friend behind (the woman wasn't supposed to be able to walk!) wasn't a betrayal?

The ending was really too bad because I had liked the adaptation until then. Anything with Anthony Head in it, really.

But the Root/Hinds one is my favorite Austen adaptation ever, with the exception of Clueless. that's just in a whole other category of brilliance.

Burn, baby, burn. :-)


Ceridwen Ah, shit, I'd blocked that last bit out - that was horrible and stagy and wrecked the shit out of my goodwill to that point - and I did have some goodwill too. I thought the actress played Anne a little more fluttery that I'd prefer, but was otherwise alright.

Crap, have I put this thing out? Anyone have a lighter?


Elizabeth I just saw the new Emma production a week or two ago and that one is pretty good. It may just be that I like Emma adaptations better because I don't like Emma, herself, so when the actress doesn't get her just right or the directors have her do something totally out of character, I don't start screaming at the tv.

The worst adaptation remains Billy Piper in Mansfield Park. Whatever the point of the novel was; it didn't make it into the film. And Billy, for all her Doctor Who awesomeness, cannot act, and she really can't act like a sickly, abused teenager.


Ceridwen Holy hannah, was that Billy Piper adaption bad. Just entirely missed the point - plus, lip-biting is just a poor substitute for actual acting. (This can be said about the girl who played Bella Swann.) And she's all buxom and blonde! Just terrible.


Elizabeth No one has ever done a really good adaptation of Mansfield Park. The one before Ms. I'm-so-perky Piper, was the one where the lesbian director wanted to make a film about Jane Austen's life and pasted it into the Mansfield Park story. Not that the repressed lesbian subplot wasn't funny, but it's not in Mansfield Park.


Ninja Sock Puppet We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up,
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry,
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
And if you ask me how I'm feeling
Don't tell me you're too blind to see (CHORUS)

(Ooh give you up)
(Ooh give you up)
(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give
(give you up)
(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give
(give you up)

We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it


Ceridwen Rickrolling motherfucker.


message 27: by Cass (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cass "I like Anne and her regret. I like the silences she shares with Captain Wentworth. Reading this time, I noticed how little was actually said by our protagonists, how their silent misunderstanding tips slowly into silent understanding. "

Well said. Persuasion is one of my favourites. I think for two reasons, she is probably the character I identify with the most. She is not pretty, she is older, she is sensible. I love Captain Wentworth and feel he is the ultimate hero, he rescues her from her family.


message 28: by Cass (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cass @Elizabeth. I have always struggled with the character of Emma (I blame Gwyneth Paltrow) until I finally read the book, which made her much better to understand. I don't think any of the adaption has come close to capturing the essence of the book.

I also hated Billy Piper in Mansfield Park (strange as I loved her as a companion to Dr Who), but then Mansfield Park is my least favourite of Austen's novels. The characters are all so tedious (and Fanny quite frankly pisses me off).


Elizabeth Cass, I'm the founding member of the Fanny Price Anti-Defemation League. I love her and think she gets a bad rap from people. She's really an amazing characterization. But I've run on and on, on this particular topic A LOT and I think people are a little tired of it.


message 30: by Cass (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cass I don't have much of an academic knowledge about Austen. I was a huge reader all my life, and a lover of Austen movies. It wasn't until a few years ago when my husband bought the books for me that I actually read them.

It always surprises me when I learn such huge debates rage on about her characters. Fanny is a great example of that. I read somewhere that Mansfield Park is considered one of her better novels, but it was the only one of her books that I didn't love.


Ceridwen I didn't really mind the Paltrow Emma, but the best Emma is still Clueless. That's fucking brilliant.

Well, I'm the founder of the Fanny Price Defamation League, so there. I'll totally grant that MP is Austen's most subtle psychological portrait, and Fanny pretty compelling, as a character, but just...I reserve the right to think she sucks. Where did we come up with the Austen Olympics? Was it Eric's review of MP? Hold on.....

Yup: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...


message 32: by Ben (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ben Babcock Ceridwen wrote: "It's weird. Why we do this? Is it because Austen is a girl, writing about girl-things? Because there are only six books?"

I don't think it's weird at all. I think it's rather common to compare the various components of an author's oeuvre. I'm tempted to lay most of the blame on the New Historicists, because they love to analyze each work in the context of the author's life at the time she wrote it. But they aren't unique in this regard. These sort of comparisons are useful for those searching for overarching themes and tropes, as well as contrasting or changing attitudes with elapsed time.

The fact that Austen has only six books certainly helps, in the sense that it is much easier to read the complete Austen than, say, the slightly more prolific Asimov. Moreover, she's interesting in that her works were published in a very short period of time (six years), some of them posthumously. And she's kind of like literary criticism catnip. (Reasons for this, I'm sure, are as many and various as the literary cats who have gotten into the nip.)


Ceridwen Asimov slightly more prolific hahahahaha!

There's also the fact that her family cast her as Dear Aunt Jane, and her sister burned a lot of her correspondence/ diaries. We'll just never know, which kills me, but there it is. Secret life of Jane, for sure.


Arushi Bhaskar I really loved your description of Anne's slow introduction in the book. I think that it was because Austen wanted to sort-of show Anne after she showed her family, so that the reader could see how different and untouched she was by the follies of her father and sister.


Ceridwen Arushi wrote: "I really loved your description of Anne's slow introduction in the book. I think that it was because Austen wanted to sort-of show Anne after she showed her family, so that the reader could see how..."

It's a neat way of being introduced to the main character, whyever it's done, and kind of mirrors how Wentworth slowly gets reacquainted with Anne. Thanks for your comment.


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