John Wiswell's Reviews > A Clash of Kings

A Clash of Kings by George R.R. Martin

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's review
Apr 20, 12

Read in January, 2009

If long Fantasy stories have fundamental rules, they probably go like this: 1) create a rich world, 2) put interesting characters in it, and 3) mix up some sequence of interesting things happening around them, happening to them, and being done by them. Martin’s first novel in this series, A Game of Thrones, fulfilled all three swimmingly. He forged one of the deepest Fantasy realms since Tolkien, with a mythology, culture and history. He spun characters of a few key families and then scattering them throughout that world and by the mid-point getting nearly all of them into some form of political, romantic or military intrigue. Active scenes illustrated the world and put it into motion, largely through political intrigue and the build to war.

This second book takes a mallet to what the first set up, dulling and dumbing down the world and putting the majority of the characters into boring or redundant situations where they do not escape the inertia of wasted prose until the final third of the book. Where the slow build to great promise was acceptable in the first, the sharp drop into bleak and sluggish chapters here is deeply disheartening.

Martin’s prose drops off noticeably. Fewer scenes generate atmosphere, and often it seems downright immature with sub-JK Rowling lines like, “The shame of that hurt worse than the pain, and the pain hurt a lot.” There is no language in this volume that rivals the blacksmith’s metallurgy or the dragon eggs in the first, leaving the thousand-page trek much less worthwhile.

Plotting and pacing have suffered similar fates. The first book took a few hundred pages to get off the ground but then flew into character development and action divvied up between a dozen (or so) lives, giving us a sense of a full and cohesive world. The narrative is divvied up again here, but with different results. A couple of characters are in intense situations: one girl poses as a boy, heading to an army garrison with a questionable guide and the possibility of being attacked by the enemy at any time on her attempt to get home; and a young soldier has gone to the other side of “the wall” and is risking facing creatures and perils never written about in the span of his homeland’s culture. They should have this volume to themselves, but instead we spend the first half waiting to hear more about them while we watch other characters sneaking into whorehouses and chatting about freshman-level theology. It’s especially annoying to leave someone hiding from enemy troops so you can read about some guy we haven’t thought about for hundreds of pages is getting a blowjob (Martin’s approach to sex is perhaps more adolescent than in the first book, and definitely has less appealing placement). While the last third expands the number of useful and interesting roles, the book has far too many chapters that serve as dull blockades to worthwhile narrative. These low-action chapters are not artistic or particularly expressive of original opinions (The Song of Ice and Fire seems like a prime franchise to expand into semi-literary fiction), but rather fumbles over clichés of sadness, lust and nonsense that are all strikingly less immediate than the situations we leave to read about them. We do not need another conversation about how some form of magic or divinity can’t possibly be real. Five or six of them will suffice.

It ties into a troubling sluggishness about this book. The first book ended on the verge of war with one major battle having ended. The second book ends on the very beginning of war, with a whole bunch of people arriving. It ends essentially on the same promise of future progress that the first did, and has so much unnecessary material that I couldn't help looking at my copy of A Storm of Swords, the 1,200-page third book, and wonder if it wasn’t bloated by the same problems. UPDATE: Storms of Swords conquered all expectations and was the best start-to-finish entry in the series so far. To read about what changed you can click here.

It stings worse because the first book ended with so many promises – NEW READERS MAY WANT TO SKIP THIS PARAGRAPH. We ended on the revelation that dragons are real, and three fell into the hands of one of the most tragic characters. In this volume they spend 1,000 pages doing little more than eat as we’re informed that they’re weak and helpless, and serve only as an excuse for their owner to go to a couple of fancy places. The revelation of the undead in the first book is even more underdeveloped here. Even the other side of “the wall” turns out to not by a realm of nightmares or perils, but more barbarians and sad people – a nice literary point, but severely underwhelming in delivery. There were so many things to look forward to, but they don’t manifest.

In short: Clash of Kings doesn't have much clashing and the kings do little of value. It would have been more aptly titled The Sadness of the People Who Aren’t Kings, but that wouldn’t have sold as well.

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Comments (showing 1-48 of 48) (48 new)

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message 1: by jD (new) - rated it 5 stars

jD I have been looking for spoilers because I don't want to read that second book. I had a feeling it would be folly. All I want to know is if Joffrey kills his mother at some point? That would be worth a trip to the library.


message 2: by Joyce (new) - added it

Joyce Bean Currently I'm reading the second one and yet halfway through I still can't see the progress. The description of detailed environment, sentiment and so on do create an epic tone but grow dull when they crowd among few actions. Your comment is more engaging than some of the chapters. I laughed and loved it :)


message 3: by PiGuy (new) - rated it 3 stars

PiGuy I came to Goodreads in the hopes to fond a good discussion forum about this book. Perhaps there is an area for this and I am not seeing it? In the meantime, I am glad I came across this review because I am in the same boat with this book. 600 pages through it and am desperately wanting something to happen. The ratio of pointless names to story development is approaching infinity. Let's hope the last third of the book comes through or I fear this might be my last book in this series.


message 4: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Pi, you can check the forums and groups. I don't use them, so I can't say they definitely do that, but conversations certainly take place there.


message 5: by jD (new) - rated it 5 stars

jD One of the problems for me has been finding a discussion about the overall story. The discussions get too bogged down in defending the actions of individual characters. One of the other problems I noticed is that GRRM pretty much does a Scarface and kills characters regardless of whether they deserve it or not. There is no sense of fairness in his writing. Heros are few and far between. You may want to consider starting a discussion group. I bet it will be popular especially with the HBO series starting in March. BTW, you do know that there is no publication date for the next book. That has also pissed off readers. It's hard to talk about a story when it is in the middle. You don't know what it all means or where it is going.


message 6: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell I'd recommended breaking discussion up into sections (Book 1, Book 1+2, Books 1-3, etc) for people at any place in the series. There's no controlling what people do in those discussion groups, though. If they want to defend the annoying characters, they will.

Martin's sluggish production pace is one of the excuses I've used for reading these so slowly. I've heard fans grumble that he'll die with it unfinished.


message 7: by jD (new) - rated it 5 stars

jD Book one was the most cohesive. Things started to take on a life of its own in book 2 but I can see having a discussion about the progression of the story to this point. It get's really tough when you throw in the third book. I remember thinking that George Lucas would not live to finish Star Wars but he did it 20 years after episode 6. Miracles never cease. What bothers me is the fact that GRRM does not seem to know where the hell the story is going. I have never heard him say that he has figured out how to end the series. I can only hope HBO will do with a screen play what it seems GRRM can't get done.


message 8: by Labeeb (new) - rated it 3 stars

Labeeb Xaman I'm reading the second one at the moment and I agree with your review. I haven't fully read it though. Book 1 was so awesome and I don't know why I'm not liking this one as much. It gets so boring.


message 9: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Debbink I urge anyone reading this to hang in there... book 3 is awesome... and book 4... well, we hope that it sets up book 5.


message 10: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John Missig I loved the second book, much more than the first book!


message 11: by Tish (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tish lol how about you write a fantasy novel yourself coz you seem to hate everything about it and would rather read one of your works instead.


message 12: by Mark (new) - added it

Mark Adams PiGuy wrote: "I came to Goodreads in the hopes to fond a good discussion forum about this book. Perhaps there is an area for this and I am not seeing it? In the meantime, I am glad I came across this review be..."

Im glad you said that, I might change my mind about reading it now. Thanks


message 13: by Josiah (new) - rated it 5 stars

Josiah G RR M has said that he will end the series in a graveyard with snow gusting across the landscape


message 14: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Bryan wrote: "I urge anyone reading this to hang in there... book 3 is awesome... and book 4... well, we hope that it sets up book 5."

I want to second Bryan - that third book is excellent. By the end of it, quite glad I slogged through this one to get to it.


message 15: by Labeeb (new) - rated it 3 stars

Labeeb Xaman Book three was better than book two but still not as awesome as book one IMO.


message 16: by Melinda (new) - rated it 5 stars

Melinda The books all connect. You have to have the patience to let the events build up to the more interesting parts of the story. If you are missing a character, not to worry, that character is still out there just not in the scene at the moment. I have read all 5 and am anxious for the next two.


message 17: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell The series is already more than five times the length of Don Quixote, so I don't feel "patience" quite captures what it demands when it doesn't deliver. Patience is for a few chapters, not a few hundred. However, Book 3 does deliver on every level for an installment in the series. I'm certainly glad I put in the time. I have Books 4 and 5, and am trying to figure out when I can schedule uninterrupted time to read them consecutively this year. When Martin is at his best, I don't want to read anything else or suffer interruptions - which I'm guessing you'd agree with, Melinda.


message 18: by Melinda (new) - rated it 5 stars

Melinda I would have preferred to read them with no interruptions. The anticipation of what was going to happen next kept me reading even when the story was dragging. I knew that something exciting was coming. It did. I was not disappointed.


message 19: by denideni (new) - rated it 1 star

denideni Great review! That's exactly how I felt about this book.


message 20: by Helen (new) - added it

Helen Well, John I'm going to try and not let your review put me off the second in this series. I hope I won't find it as disappointing as you have indicated. I guess all books we read are subjective to us individually, so I shall revisit this review when I have actually read book two. Book one didn't disappoint me, I can only hope book two does the same. ^_^


message 21: by jD (new) - rated it 5 stars

jD Josiah wrote: "G RR M has said that he will end the series in a graveyard with snow gusting across the landscape"

Josiah -- did he happen to mention how many books and years it will take to get to that scene? LoL. I love the man's work but am worried I won't live to see the end of the thing. I suppose people felt the same way about the Hobbit / LoTR series when it was being written.


message 22: by Emily (new) - rated it 4 stars

Emily I did enjoy the book and wouldn't rate as low as 1 star, but I agree with a lot of this. The only chapters that really had me captivated were Arya's, Jon's and Sansa's, with the exception of one of Dany's. Tyrion is a great character, but I found myself flipping ahead to see how many pages until his chapters ended - the same with Theon and Davos. When the first book ended, there was nothing that could stop me from picking up the next. I haven't been left feeling the same at the end of this one. I look forward to A Storm of Swords, but I'm glad of a break to read something else for a bit.


message 23: by jD (new) - rated it 5 stars

jD Emily wrote: "I did enjoy the book and wouldn't rate as low as 1 star, but I agree with a lot of this. The only chapters that really had me captivated were Arya's, Jon's and Sansa's, with the exception of one of..."

Hey Emily -- I do the same thing except I don't skip Tyrion. He facinates me. I use www.towerofthehand.com to fill in what happens with the other characters. It's one of the best fan sites I have come across.


message 24: by Vladimir (new) - rated it 3 stars

Vladimir Evdokimov Tnx for review!
100% true

I hope i'll enjoy third book.


message 25: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Vladimir wrote: "Tnx for review!
100% true

I hope i'll enjoy third book."


Vladimir, if you finished the second, you owe the third to yourself. A Storm of Swords is such a well put-together novel, and at least two characters have splendid pay-offs. Hope you enjoy it!


message 26: by Emilia (new) - rated it 5 stars

Emilia Soramäki Agree with this review 99%! keep reading, aryas storyline becomes veryvery important, and all the events in this book build up to it!


message 27: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Emilia wrote: "Agree with this review 99%! keep reading, aryas storyline becomes veryvery important, and all the events in this book build up to it!"

Well Emilia, I've already reviewed Book 3, which is an amazing improvement and piece of work. On 4 now.


message 28: by K.D. (last edited 8 de Jul 22:08) (new) - rated it 3 stars

K.D. Oliveros The best review of this book!

... being the bravest :)


message 29: by Ian (new) - added it

Ian I avoided continuing the series because of how profoundly stupid I found the Starks. And it seemed a stupidity born, not out of character, but out of Martin's desire to move the plot along. His prose was the only thing that kept me reading.

It sounds like I would have given up on the series anyway, even if I had continued on to book 2.


message 30: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell KD, what struck you as particularly brave about my little review? My negativity towards the work of an obviously talented and popular storyteller?

And Ian, the Starks have drastically differing levels of intelligence. If Sansa annoyed you, she might well always annoy you. But we might have to have a spoiler-heavy discussion to hash out what characters did what wrong.


message 31: by K.D. (new) - rated it 3 stars

K.D. Oliveros Your review is in the minority. Check the graph and you are almost alone in your opinion. I take that as bravery because there were popular books I reviewed and rated before and I got hate comments from so many readers.

But I share some of your observations that's why I like your review.


message 32: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell And I appreciate the support, KD! Though I didn't feel particularly brave just writing what I saw in the book. I'm sorry you got hate comments. Certainly this has attracted a couple. I knew we were in the minority - it seems as though the whole series has the 4-5 star average, as though people aren't noticing variations in the quality of the volumes.


message 33: by K.D. (new) - rated it 3 stars

K.D. Oliveros But your are very convincing. I haven't read the rest of the books. I first thought that I would stop here but when I read your review (yes, I clicked the link) for Book 3, it made me interested to buy and read it. You are making me indecisive on this. Such is the power of your words.

Oh I've just checked your profile and found out that you are an author! I should get a copy of your book. :)


message 34: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Honestly, KD, if you finished A Clash of Kings, you deserve it to yourself to give A Storm of Swords a shot. It is the strongest book in the series up to that point and makes good a couple promises from the end of the second. A Clash of Kings is, at worst, the unpleasant bridge to a great third novel.

And yes, I am actually an author. Currently I only have short fiction in a few anthologies here on GR, though I have a novel pending when publishers decide the best release time is. If I'm lucky, it'll be later this year or next.


message 35: by Colleen (new) - added it

Colleen Watts I'm only on page 378, but I'm actually really disagreeing with this. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you aren't necessarily looking at it in the right light.

You say it's boring, yet I can't seem to put it down (exception being work and such). Using the word Clash in the title might not always mean "fighting." It could indicate the great differences between all four kings. Stanis is generally disliked and worships no gods, yet he's the true heir trying to claim his throne and kingdom, but then you have Renly, the brother who has no right but he has the allegiance of lords. He's fun, handsome, everything people want in a king. Joffrey is a psychopath, which links him to the Targeryans. Then you have Robb, who just wants justice for the public murder of his father and his sisters back. He never asked to be king--that was thrown on him by one of his lords. And he has to deal with all of this and keep his mother safe, all at the age of 14 or 15. And that's just the KINGS. Now, I will agree with you about the sex. I can't help but wonder if he just had an overactive imagination at those times or what. But I'm not going to agree with your "sub-JK Rowling phrases" comment. Martin writes in a style that explores the character's psyche. Bran is going to use phrases like the one you gave as an example. Cat probably would to simplify things to deal with her husband's death. What I was taught was simplicity in writing is better (I, too, am a writer). It definitely deserves a much higher star rating than you gave it.


message 36: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Colleen wrote: "I'm only on page 378, but I'm actually really disagreeing with this. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you aren't necessarily looking at it in the right light.

You say it's boring, yet ..."


You're welcome to disagree, or to have a different experience of the book than I did.

As far as star ratings - if you hover over them, you'll notice each rating corresponds to a statement. 1 star equals "did not like it." I gave it exactly what it deserved from my experience, just as I gave the first and third books 5 stars, equating "it was amazing."

As for the factual claim that this is actually a "clash" - two or four entities possessing different opinions or identities is not a clash. A clash would be an active and frictive encounter between individuals possessing those traits, and that doesn't much happen in this book. I wish I could agree with you that the style or plotting explored anyone's psyche with notable depth. Catelyn got a bit of that near the end, but hardly anything redemptive for the work as a whole. That comes in the third book, which is a superb piece of work.


message 37: by Colleen (new) - added it

Colleen Watts I guess you misunderstand what I mean by "clash"--I mean the definition "to be incompatible," which all the kings are.


message 38: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell You know, I might be down for "An Incompatibility of Kings."


StoryTellerShannon Interesting review but I'd give this book an A minus.


message 40: by Alexis (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alexis So John, I just finished book one. Can I get away with skipping book 2 and jumping to book 3? :)


message 41: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Wiswell Alexis wrote: "So John, I just finished book one. Can I get away with skipping book 2 and jumping to book 3? :)"

I'd like to say 'Yes,' but the last third of the novel moves a lot of characters around. It's a hard choice! Maybe give this book a shot, and if you dislike it, consult a Wiki synopsis? It's a gap.


message 42: by Shelby (new) - added it

Shelby Loren Thank you for your review. I'm only a few hundred pages into this book and I'm finding most of it to be distractingly sluggish. Aryas and Jons chapters are the ones I find interesting me the most, and it's irksome that they are relatively short in comparison to the stagnating chapters that separate them. Their tales engross me, only to suddenly switch to a much less interesting character. If it didn't go against everything in me to skip ahead, I most likely would.


message 43: by Nik (new)

Nik I loved books 1-3, book 3 being my fav to this day. Book 4 was hardest for me to get thru, followed by book 5 as they are chopped up now with half the story characters. No probs at all with book 2, especially battle of the Blackwater.


message 44: by Reanna (new) - rated it 2 stars

Reanna I am so glad I am not the only one. I found myself skimming through everyone's chapters aside from Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion's. The first three of those characters were sorely missing. I am looking forward to starting book 3 and dreading book 4 after reading the comments here.


message 45: by Kris (new) - rated it 3 stars

Kris This may be a premature comment on my part (I'm only on page 267), but the majority of what you've said in this excellent review mirrors the complaints I shared with my friend. It's disheartening to hear that book 2 won't build up to something more, although I have heard book 3 is excellent from most who are up to date with the series.


message 46: by Craig (new) - rated it 3 stars

Craig Herbertson You got it


message 47: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter Although I'm a fan of the entire series so far, your review is well-written and well substantiated. Good job.


message 48: by Bob (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bob I agree whole-heartedly. While I loved the prose in Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings droned on in places. Some parts were captivating, while others bored me to sleep--literally. At times it felt like Martin was just shooting for a particular word count, filling pages with useless information. I'm relieved to hear that Storm of Swords bounces back. I'm looking forward to it.


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