Elizabeth's Reviews > The Great Gatsby

The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

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629344
's review
Feb 08, 10

bookshelves: in-by-of-the-americas, reviewed
Read in February, 2010, read count: 2

I saw this yesterday. I sat in a full theater in one of the most-self-importantly-intellectual capitals of the world and had it read to me for seven hours. It was an audience who would get off, in several ways, to say they had seen such a production. An audience that included Cornel West, and possibly less visibly famous intellectuals (there were a lot of very hairy men of an older generation in clothes of that aggressively inexpensive sort, all bought in the early eighties, all frayed miserably, all in shades of brown and green, at least). And I have to count myself among them (I can pick Cornel West out of a crowd after all) even if I don't like to admit anything of the sort - I'm not someone who talks about metafiction or deconstructs anything and I bolted when that guy tried to pick me up in Peets by telling me he was an author and his favorite playwright was Samuel Beckett.* But I'm in a theater to see The Great Gatsby, one of those books that gets called "the great American novel" without irony and we all had to read it in high school and, sitting there, in that theater that is growing warmer and warmer from all the hot air rising from the pre-production discussions, I had a moment of doubt. What if it isn't as good as I remember? (I remember it being the only novel I read in a high school class that I loved). What if it is overrated, pretentious drivel, with text that sounds like Hemingway educated at Princeton and platitudes about what we, as Americans, should think and feel, without the true realism of Steinbeck or the awareness of Ralph Ellison? What if it really should be regulated to high school classrooms where a good book is anything that can get through the obsessive self-involvement of the audience and the message is obvious enough that its light only has to shine through for a moment?

Then the play/reading started and I forgot all my worries. The moment Nick first held Daisy's hand and described her murmur as designed to get people to lean towards her, I was in love. I was in love the way we all are with Daisy at first. And then I was with Nick, on the outside, watching the parties, enjoying the cavalcade that surrounds him while he tries to maintain his middle-west propriety and rules of conduct, and we see him slipping, even if he doesn't. I flinched at the unthinking racism that dates the book. I watched as eyes rose over the ash heap and it shocked me again how much Tom reminds me of men I meet who really believe that Obama is ruining the country with his socialism and that we need to go back to a simpler time when they were less confused about their own place in the world (I'm not talking just about the ones on t.v. with tea bags stapled to their hats either). Tom is just as heart breaking as all the others. Tom, Wilson, Myrtle, Nick, Mr. Gatz, they all break my heart.

Having it read to you, you notice how many times Fitzgerald describes Jordon as "jaunty" and uses the word "wan." You can't help it. The flaws are there. But so is the power. When Nick says that this is a book about "the west" and describes the "green breast" of the land when it was first seen by the European settlers and asks us all to think about what it means to be an American, you can't help but think about it. It isn't a gimmick. It isn't meant as a joke or because the author felt he needed to ask to get published or to be considered an important writer. He was writing from his heart about what he loves and what he wants to understand and about the heartbreak of loss.

I walked home with my friend afterward and we talked about how his writing is akin to Heminway's in style, but that he was much more like Virginia Woolf with his sense of loss, the melancholy feeling that they both have, as they write looking back on events that they know will come to a tragic end. That "world-weariness" that represses any hope you might have when starting the book that things will work out well for anyone because, after all, we are human and therefore we will all die, one way or another. My friend, who is currently reading Mere Christianity talked about the difference between them and C.S. Lewis as the belief in Heaven. That Woolf and Fitzgerald don't believe in that better place to which we may all go, and to which we should all aspire. I was thinking about how much that sounded like something Mr. Gatz would have said (not the part about Woolf, or Lewis, about aspiring to Heaven, but don't tell her I said that).

I don't want to leave this page on that last discussion. This was not an intellectual exercise. Walking home in ten degree weather, bundling the scarf closer and turning up my collar and wondering exactly how stupid my refusal to wear hats is if I end up in the emergency room for frostbite on my ears, was as significant as the conversation. Having the conversation with this friend (she's actually the ex-girlfriend of one of my brothers) was significant. Her belief and my lack of. The streets we walked on, looking at the houses dating back and back (for us, US), a long time, and listening to the animated voices echoing off the dark houses in the clear night. The experience of the reading and thinking about what Fitzgerald was saying and bringing in the knowledge of other writers and their ideas and doing it all in Cambridge, of all places, was important, as important, as when I first read the book as a teenager and feel in love the first time.



---------------------
* This is a funny story. To get rid of him I told him mine was Tom Stoppard, which also happens to be true, and that I thought Shakespeare in Love was the best film ever made, which was a BIG lie. It was effective. No one should have to put up with Beckett fans while trying to have a cup of coffee.

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Comments (showing 1-50 of 90) (90 new)


message 1: by Moira (new) - added it

Moira Russell Isn't it GREAT. I think it just might be my favourite book ever (altho I hate picking like that).


Elizabeth I love picking but it's so hard. I think I have a top 5, maybe a favorite, but I'm always questioning it.


Chris There is a special place in English Hell for people who liked Shakespeare in Love. It's a good thing you lied.


Elizabeth I liked Shakespeare in Love - it's Stoppard, really, how could I not? Also, Rush, Dench, Firth, and Saunton were all excellent. It was just Gwen, Ben, and Jo that dragged it down. Oh, and comparing it to Elizabeth of course. Sigh. How it could be it for Best Picture and that Gwenny has a best actress oscar and Judi Dench doesn't. Grr....

Sorry. I get annoyed quite quickly on this subject.

But, did you see Stage Beauty? Similar material, MUCH better film.


Jesse Those last paragraphs are lovely--I find it is one of life's great joys of being able to attach current experiences (both lived and in art) to an ever-expanding field of knowledge, able to recognize new facets, savor new contexts.

And I'm intrigued regarding the discussion around Lewis. When you say "her belief and my lack of," do you mean in the sense how it fundamentally alters both of your interpretations of the text?


Sarah I love this review. I love every line of it.


Dave Russell I have no problem picking this as my favorite novel ever.


message 8: by Moira (new) - added it

Moira Russell Chris wrote: "There is a special place in English Hell for people who liked Shakespeare in Love. It's a good thing you lied."

....OMG YES. God I hate that movie.




message 9: by Moira (new) - added it

Moira Russell I love this review. I love every line of it.

Yes, yes! What a beautiful review. I'm so glad you got to see that.


Chris Elizabeth wrote: "I liked Shakespeare in Love - it's Stoppard, really, how could I not? Also, Rush, Dench, Firth, and Saunton were all excellent. It was just Gwen, Ben, and Jo that dragged it down. Oh, and comparing..."

Totally agree about Stage Beauty.

What I really hate about SIL is I always have to explain why I hate Gwen (it's that and that GOD AWFUL movie version of Possession: A Romance. The only person I have ever forgiven for that is the girl from Pride and Prejudice. I figured she needed the money. (And Byatt, but I figured she lacked control).




message 11: by Moira (new) - added it

Moira Russell Chris wrote: "that GOD AWFUL movie version of Possession: A Romance"

MY GOD that looked so horrible. And I love that book so much, too! A friend told me the Victorian bits were good, but really couldn't make up for the awful modern-day stuff.




message 12: by Stephen (last edited Feb 07, 2010 02:25pm) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Stephen Um, I like Gatsby, it tells us something very important about 1. screwing someone else's wife, 2. the rich who don't own up to their deeds, and 3. ennui can be a deadly disease.


Ellen A really excellent review on my--by far--favorite book by Fitzgerald.


message 14: by Bram (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram Great review...equal parts funny and poignant. I just found out that tonight is the last night of this. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo


Elizabeth Jesse wrote: "And I'm intrigued regarding the discussion around Lewis. When you say "her belief and my lack of," do you mean in the sense how it fundamentally alters both of your interpretations of the text? "

She is very religious and I am not, so "belief and lack thereof" and it is interesting to me to hear her perspective, particularly when it is so different from mine. She was describing the difference between Lewis' optimism and Fitzgerald's (and Woolf's) knowing regret. I see Lewis as kind of rah-rah propaganda (for god and country) but she sees him as being able to express a genuine hope and faith that these other writers, being so "knowing" fail to do. She loves both of them, but she suggested it hampers them, too. I don't think so, but then I think about it from another perspective. I grew up in the US after all, I have a sense or belief in the US that is more than just the sum of its parts, can't help it, so when Fitzgerald speaks about it, it means certain things to me and I understand about his belief in it. Can I say that it is really that much different from Lewis' beliefs?

So, great conversation, great book, great production (sorry Bram) and thank you all for your nice words about my review.


Stephen Was I nice? Hmmm. I guess I was. :-)


Elizabeth Stephen wrote: "Was I nice? Hmmm. I guess I was. :-)"

I wasn't singling anyone out for not commenting, but I can, if it makes you feel more special. :-)


Stephen LOL I was just saying I got a lot out of Gatsby, it impressed me. I was about 16 when I read it, and the first time I realized symbolism in literature was the light on Daisy's dock.


Elizabeth The stage production had a green light. I laughed, as it was a little silly, but, they couldn't not have it.


Jesse Thanks for the further explanation, Elizabeth. The issue intrigues me, as I come from a academic background at a religious institution (ie, I totally did a presentation on Mere Christianity in one of my classes), and now that I don't really consider myself religious, I now grapple a lot with the ways that has influenced the way I analyze literature (and everything else).

And it sounds like your friend has a much more nuanced reading on the topic than most I have encountered. I can't count how many comments and subsequent discussion I had to endure in undergraduate classes regarding a character's "unchristian" behavior or actions. :P


Elizabeth Jesse wrote: "I now grapple a lot with the ways that has influenced the way I analyze literature (and everything else)."

That's an interesting question. I think everyone has some sort of bias in how they look at literature. I know my own tends to be political/historical. How does it fit into a bigger context of what else was going on at the time kind of thing.


message 22: by notgettingenough (last edited Feb 08, 2010 09:08pm) (new) - rated it 5 stars

notgettingenough Having it read to you, you notice how many times Fitzgerald describes Jordon as "jaunty" and uses the word "wan." You can't help it. The flaws are there.

Okay, so how many times are these words used? To be precise:

C3 1 jauntiness 2 jaunty 1 wan
C4 1 jauntily
C7 1 wan
C9 1 jauntily

Is this really a flaw? I don't see it. Not that I have any precise idea of how many times a particular adjective has to be used before we criticise a writer for it.


notgettingenough I've been considering more the question of why one would think that the words jaunty and wan had been overused. Is it because they are words that are out of fashion and therefore unfamiliar to the ear?

To take some commonplace words of today's usage we find in this novel that the word Enormous is used 12 times, sad or a variant of sad 11 times, and jumped 7 times. Ecstatic is used 4 times. All these strike me as words we don't notice because they are part of our vocabulary. Therefore we wouldn't even think to ask if they are being overused.

I hope I'm not damning the author further here. My intent is not to suggest these words are overused, but that neither are jaunty or wan!



Stephen This raises interesting questions about how we each approach literature. Before the English departments adopted the strictly theoretical approach to analyzing everything to death, or at least until all joy was missing from it, one could encounter literature on its own grounds. The only meaning I take from literature is the meaning it raises fore.

Notgettingenough raises the issue of words that are no longer in fashion, and that is a very legitimate question.

Jesse talks about how his analysis is nuanced by his Christian training, raises even further questions.

That's all.


Elizabeth notgettingenough wrote: "Having it read to you, you notice how many times Fitzgerald describes Jordon as "jaunty" and uses the word "wan." You can't help it. The flaws are there.

Okay, so how many times are these words us..."


Jaunty, and its variations, were all used to describe a particular individual, therefore its use stood out. I began to wonder why he wasn't using other words, and what else they might be.

"Wan" is used more than once, I promise.


Ellen Stephen wrote: "This raises interesting questions about how we each approach literature. Before the English departments adopted the strictly theoretical approach to analyzing everything to death, or at least unti..."

Hey, be careful how you talk about English departments. Not every English teacher/prof desires to beat a book to death :).

This is odd. I commented on this review a couple days ago, and I am convinced I voted for it, but apparently not.


Elizabeth Ellen wrote: "Stephen wrote: "This raises interesting questions about how we each approach literature. Before the English departments adopted the strictly theoretical approach to analyzing everything to death, ..."

Well it was nice of you to vote for it now, Ellen. :-) And, I agree, sometimes English departments do wonderful things for books - my high school class on this one was excellent, I think. At least I liked the book.



Stephen Ellen, iz u Pro-fesser?


Ellen Stephen wrote: "Ellen, iz u Pro-fesser?"

Yes, but I'm no autocrat. The New Critics/Formalists liked to believe there was only one, true interpretation of a text, which was gained by careful study of all the work's formal elements.

I disagree. ...I discuss much and pro-fess little.


Stephen Then I accept you in my anti-theorist camp.


message 31: by Bram (last edited Feb 09, 2010 07:21am) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram The issue intrigues me, as I come from a academic background at a religious institution (ie, I totally did a presentation on Mere Christianity in one of my classes), and now that I don't really consider myself religious, I now grapple a lot with the ways that has influenced the way I analyze literature (and everything else).

Yeah, I grew up very religious (and went to an evangelical school through 8th grade), and while I've been moving away from religion, I'm very interested/curious about the way it's influenced me. Much of my personal outlook and the things that I respond to most strongly in literature and life are still very much linked to Christian themes (although these are certainly not exclusive to this or any religion) of redemption, social justice, and sacrifice on behalf of others. I can't say that I regret the background because I'd inevitably be different without it...but exactly how, I wonder?



Stephen Bram wrote: "I can't say that I regret the background because I'd inevitably be different without it...but exactly how, I wonder?"

I would suggest perhaps it prevents you from looking for the meaning of life in literature.




message 33: by Bram (last edited Feb 09, 2010 07:30am) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram Well, as Tolstoy says (roughly), the only thing we can know for sure about life is that it's meaningless. :)


Stephen :-) Precisely, and yet, how many people have we read on this site who are striving to find that meaning in literature? Or am I misunderstanding?


message 35: by Bram (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram Heh, I meant it quite ironically since it's a quote from literature about the meaning of life.


Stephen I have to qualify my agreement. In the Christian outlook life is not meaningless. Yet, without it, life appears meaningless. Perfectly good Godless Heathens lead lives with meaning. My real point is, are people searching literature for meaning in life? Or for lessons from life?


message 37: by Bram (last edited Feb 09, 2010 07:39am) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram I think you can search for Meaning while still knowing/suspecting deep down that you won't find it. The concept of finding Meaning is such a boon that I find it inherently suspicious.


Stephen Well, seeing that we are both in agreement, and no godless heathens will jump in, I think we've settled this. Shall we call it the Wipeltephen agreement?


notgettingenough Elizabeth wrote: "
Jaunty, and its variations, were all used to describe a particular individual, therefore its use stood out. I began to wonder why he wasn't using other words, and what else they might be.

"Wan" is used more than once, I promise. "


Yes, wan is used twice, as mentioned.

As for what else one might use for jaunty, it's interesting, isn't it? I don't think anything else does. Likewise for 'sad'. And yet 'enormous'. I feel comfortable with gigantic or huge...


message 40: by Bram (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram despondent?


Ellen Bram wrote: "I think you can search for Meaning while still knowing/suspecting deep down that you won't find it. The concept of finding Meaning is such a boon that I find it inherently suspicious. "

Stephen wrote: "I have to qualify my agreement. In the Christian outlook life is not meaningless. Yet, without it, life appears meaningless. Perfectly good Godless Heathens lead lives with meaning. My real poi..."


I think I'm a crabby optimist. While I don't pore through books in some mad search for ultimate meaning, it's hard to read a book such as the Brothers K, which I'm currently finishing, and not contemplate larger questions.

This whole discussion on meaning reminded me of a snippet from Robert Browning, which I like:
"This world's no blot for us,
Nor blank; it means intensely, and means good:
To find its meaning is my meat and drink."





message 42: by Bram (last edited Feb 09, 2010 07:55am) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram "Crabby Optimist"--I like that. I think I'm also generally optimistic in spite of myself. How is The Brothers Karamazov going? I'm thinking of picking that one up soon.


Stephen Crabby Optimist. Hmmm, how does that look? What color is a crabby optimist? I think that's worth of the quotes section. Oh, the Browning is pretty good, too.


Ellen Bram wrote: ""Crabby Optimist"--I like that. I think I'm also generally optimistic in spite of myself. How is The Brothers Karamazov going? I'm thinking of picking that one up soon. "

I love the Brothers K, and can't believe I waited so long to read it considering how much I like Dostoevsky.

Stephen wrote: "Crabby Optimist. Hmmm, how does that look? What color is a crabby optimist? I think that's worth of the quotes section. Oh, the Browning is pretty good, too."

Well, it works like this: you're guardedly optimistic, but not the cheery sort who'd fold when your optimism proves unfounded.




Stephen I would like to point out the poop was mentioned in message 45.


Jesse Bram wrote: I can't say that I regret the background because I'd inevitably be different without it...but exactly how, I wonder?

I'd hesitantly say the same. I actually feel just on the cusp of finally being ready to take this exploration on in earnest, which is why I asked Elizabeth the question I did.

In regards to attending a religious institution, in an academic literary context it did mean that I wasn't burdened with a lot of theory, and in some situations, such as Flannery O'Connor, it was actually a very fruitful environment to study in. On the other hand, I also had to endure a lot of condemnation of literature and literary characters on moral grounds (poor Emma Bovary, for example, underwent a bloodbath). Also a lot of needless discussion on identifying Christ figures.

Ellen wrote: "Well, it works like this: you're guardedly optimistic, but not the cheery sort who'd fold when your optimism proves unfounded."

Along those same lines, I call myself an optimistic pessimist. As in a natural pessimist who forces himself to be as optimistic as possible. :)


Elizabeth I can't believe we're having a discussion about the influence of religious upbringing, and beliefs, on one of my reviews. I find it ironic and amusing.

I do think that most people never think about what cultural, religious, or other baggage they bring with them when reading a book, and how it shapes their interpretation. It is more than just being familiar with the allusions in the text (I don't get biblical references at all, for example, so somethings are totally lost for me). It's more than knowing historical events. I'm not saying that everyone who grew up in the US will react to a book the same way, but sometimes the cultural/societal influences are so significant and ingrained, you react to them without noticing. Like when you hear someone say "I have a dream." It instantly means something to almost everyone in the US over the age of 10 (it may mean something different to each, but it means something). I think a religious upbringing is something like that; you may not notice the influence, but it's there and informs the reading.

I'm trying to be very careful with this because I'm dangerously close to carrying this argument to conclusions that I wouldn't want to draw. For example, I wouldn't say all women read the same way. I wouldn't say that every person who was raised Christian would read The Wasteland the same way. I would say that your understanding of the poem would be different from mine though.


message 48: by Bram (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram Good points. Speaking of The Wasteland, I need to get on that. Do I need to finish Dante first (or any other alluded-to text)?


Stephen Read it here, Bram.


message 50: by Bram (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bram Stephen wrote: "Read it here, Bram."

Cool, thanks. I've always thought of The Wasteland as something that requires some prep to get the most out of it (wrongly?), so I just want to make sure I give it the fairest shot I can.


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