Mark's review
Seneca
by Anna Lydia Motto
However, the philosophy of Stoicism lives on. Marcus Aurelius's writings are possibly more familiar than Seneca's. My father always referred to himself as a Stoic. The adjective stoic is still applied with perhaps admiration in our language. Many concepts from the Stoics are taught today by modern-day popular "gurus"...I would venture to say to help people face and master emotions by reason .. We actually have absorbed much of these early philosphers into mainstream thought.
Great influences on America by educated men may be traced to the Greek and Roman philosophers they admired. It is ideas that survive thru those who carry them,are influenced by them.
Meanwhile, a "prophet of Palestine" who himself wrote not a word that has survived has influence in myth and in that which is ascribed to him and through the conflicting interpretations and writings of others who wrote long after him. Thomas Jefferson, one of those who read in Greek and Latin as well as French and English, and who was a Deist, took the New Testament and edited it down to only what was not , in his view, fabulous and unbelievable mythmaking etc to get down to only the teachings of Jesus. The slim volume that resulted, known as the Jefferson Bible, is a quick read.
Yes, I didn't do even Motto's short book justice on the continuing influence of Stoicism, which she did make note of, including its effect on transcendentalists and even its impact on early 20th century novelsits, apparently. Just as Christianity absorbed many of its ideas from earlier philosophical streams (particulary in Paul's letters), I am sure that modern day philsophies owe debts to Stoic thinking in ways we aren't even aware of.
I knew about the Jefferson Bible, and while I have no strong objection to anything you say about Jesus and his teachings, I would merely point out that knowing the "truth" in these matters in tricky on all fronts. The letters of Paul were written within a half century of Jesus' death -- not a terribly long gap -- and the gospels undoubtedly existed in oral form before being written down later. And while you are right in saying that Jesus didn't write down any of this material himself, it's also true that the veracity of both Roman historical writing and of Seneca's own accounts of his experiences are hard to prove, because there are so few corroborative reports.
One thing I found fascinating (Dan Brown novel, anyone?) is that many of Seneca's works have never been recovered. There would be a coup for some literary adventurer.
I would strongly recommend Burton Mack's book on early Christianity:Who Wrote the New Testament which addresses Paul's letters in context. I know that any writing about either must take into account the purposes of writing "history". Its an old saw that history is written by the winners..which applies in general which is why alternative histories are much valued in researching ancient times..
Thanks for the recommendation. BTW, I wasn't trying to be triumphal in my original comments about Jesus outlasting Seneca; just reflecting on how short a memory we have as human beings. Obviously, if Constantine had picked Stoicism as the state religion instead of Christianity, we might be saying the opposite. I'm always discovering fascinating and fairly important people who have been forgotten within one or two generations, let alone 2,000 years
What is also astounding is how short a perspective we have of "future history", of the world we are bequeathing to future generations. If we were able to extrapolate from our behaviors and policies and impacts, we would recognize and have to accept we are destroying much we would like our grandchildren even ...and their grandchildren to have, experience and love.
Consider the loss of species, of forests, of space, of freedom from violence, of quiet, of birdsong, of
clean air, water, ...of enough food to eat...and a habitable planet. Looking ahead not even 2,000 years but think of our planet in 200 years even.
So true, sadly. Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark's review
Seneca by Anna Lydia Motto
Mark's review
rating:
bookshelves:
history,
philosophy
I was intrigued by Seneca because (a) I knew nothing about him and (b) I noticed his life span overlapped that of Jesus. This short volume was meant as a quick summary of his life and ideas, and it does a decent job of both, although the chapter on Art and Form is better suited to someone who can really revel in Latin rhymes, paradoxes and puns.
In this classicist's opinion, the arts peaked in the imperial age during the reign of Augustus and declined thereafter, so that Seneca was possibly the only superlative philosopher and dramatist in his era. More amazing, though, was is ability to survive the mentally disturbed reigns of Claudius, Caligula and Nero. As Nero's tutor, he helped rule Rome for a period of years, and was thought to have done so wisely. In the end, though, not being able to withstand the paranoia of so many successive emperors, he was exiled and ordered to commit suicide, which he did, apparently all the while declaiming to and conversing with his friends.
As a ...more
In this classicist's opinion, the arts peaked in the imperial age during the reign of Augustus and declined thereafter, so that Seneca was possibly the only superlative philosopher and dramatist in his era. More amazing, though, was is ability to survive the mentally disturbed reigns of Claudius, Caligula and Nero. As Nero's tutor, he helped rule Rome for a period of years, and was thought to have done so wisely. In the end, though, not being able to withstand the paranoia of so many successive emperors, he was exiled and ordered to commit suicide, which he did, apparently all the while declaiming to and conversing with his friends.
As a ...more
However, the philosophy of Stoicism lives on. Marcus Aurelius's writings are possibly more familiar than Seneca's. My father always referred to himself as a Stoic. The adjective stoic is still applied with perhaps admiration in our language. Many concepts from the Stoics are taught today by modern-day popular "gurus"...I would venture to say to help people face and master emotions by reason .. We actually have absorbed much of these early philosphers into mainstream thought.Great influences on America by educated men may be traced to the Greek and Roman philosophers they admired. It is ideas that survive thru those who carry them,are influenced by them.
Meanwhile, a "prophet of Palestine" who himself wrote not a word that has survived has influence in myth and in that which is ascribed to him and through the conflicting interpretations and writings of others who wrote long after him. Thomas Jefferson, one of those who read in Greek and Latin as well as French and English, and who was a Deist, took the New Testament and edited it down to only what was not , in his view, fabulous and unbelievable mythmaking etc to get down to only the teachings of Jesus. The slim volume that resulted, known as the Jefferson Bible, is a quick read.
Yes, I didn't do even Motto's short book justice on the continuing influence of Stoicism, which she did make note of, including its effect on transcendentalists and even its impact on early 20th century novelsits, apparently. Just as Christianity absorbed many of its ideas from earlier philosophical streams (particulary in Paul's letters), I am sure that modern day philsophies owe debts to Stoic thinking in ways we aren't even aware of.
I knew about the Jefferson Bible, and while I have no strong objection to anything you say about Jesus and his teachings, I would merely point out that knowing the "truth" in these matters in tricky on all fronts. The letters of Paul were written within a half century of Jesus' death -- not a terribly long gap -- and the gospels undoubtedly existed in oral form before being written down later. And while you are right in saying that Jesus didn't write down any of this material himself, it's also true that the veracity of both Roman historical writing and of Seneca's own accounts of his experiences are hard to prove, because there are so few corroborative reports.
One thing I found fascinating (Dan Brown novel, anyone?) is that many of Seneca's works have never been recovered. There would be a coup for some literary adventurer.
I would strongly recommend Burton Mack's book on early Christianity:Who Wrote the New Testament which addresses Paul's letters in context. I know that any writing about either must take into account the purposes of writing "history". Its an old saw that history is written by the winners..which applies in general which is why alternative histories are much valued in researching ancient times..
Thanks for the recommendation. BTW, I wasn't trying to be triumphal in my original comments about Jesus outlasting Seneca; just reflecting on how short a memory we have as human beings. Obviously, if Constantine had picked Stoicism as the state religion instead of Christianity, we might be saying the opposite. I'm always discovering fascinating and fairly important people who have been forgotten within one or two generations, let alone 2,000 years
What is also astounding is how short a perspective we have of "future history", of the world we are bequeathing to future generations. If we were able to extrapolate from our behaviors and policies and impacts, we would recognize and have to accept we are destroying much we would like our grandchildren even ...and their grandchildren to have, experience and love.
Consider the loss of species, of forests, of space, of freedom from violence, of quiet, of birdsong, of
clean air, water, ...of enough food to eat...and a habitable planet. Looking ahead not even 2,000 years but think of our planet in 200 years even.
So true, sadly. Thanks for your thoughts.