Lady Eilonwy 's Reviews > Wither

Wither by Lauren DeStefano

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3439463
's review
Jul 22, 11

bookshelves: dystopia, post-apocalyptic
Read from July 16 to 21, 2011

World-building lecture time!

World-building, my friends, is the bread and butter of science fiction.

Pay attention, kids!

I refuse to believe that only Americans exist in this world.

I also refuse to believe only wealthy Americans exist in this world.

This is the world of Wither. The first is intended, the second is an implication.

For you see, there's a little thing that a writer should take notice when considering writing a dystopia or science fiction work.

It's called class consciousness.

Classicism, poverty, and non-privileged people exist. The third world exists. Developing countries exist. Countries other than America exist. They should and must be considered in your vision of the future.

Let me explain why this is important and what it has to do with Wither.

Even if scientists somehow "perfected" the human being via genetic engineering 50 to 100 years from now (and I won't even touch the science aspect of the story), there is one small fact that needs to be considered:

Gene therapy is expensive.

Only the wealthiest individuals in industrialized countries would be able splice and replace their unborn children's genes. Genetic therapy, this early in time, would be a privilege.

The huge populations of people living in rural societies would have little to no access to gene therapy, especially if such therapy is a privilege.

Most middle-and working-class Americans could never afford the therapy.

Economic reasons aside, this is also considering that altering our genes would become acceptable and normal in 70 year's time.

Using gene therapy to "perfect" humanity is (arguably) a form of modern eugenics. It would require special ethical, philosophical, social, and religious considerations from scientists, doctors, bioethicists, and religious leaders. After all, what is an "imperfection?" What kinds of traits do we weed out once we have determined what is imperfection? What do we consider a disease? Genetic engineering in humans would be a huge controversy not only in American society, but most every society.

Considering how controversial such an operation would be, I imagine a sizable population of people in this world (if not most of them) would not be genetically modified at all (either for economic, philosophical, religious, or social reasons).

All things considered, in an industrialized nation like America, I can imagine the genetically modified population would be small.

In a developing nation, I can imagine the genetically modified population would be minuscule, if not non-existent.

So how is it that every single person in Wither is genetically modified?

These facts make the entire point of Wither (the extinction of humanity because everyone has been modified to die young) moot.

Let's talk a bit about developing nations.

I understand the premise is that only America survived, but it's simply not feasible. Consider China, India, and most of the African continent. Consider the mountains along the Pacific coast, places with mountains and highlands -- places that, even given global flooding, would still exist. Even if you could create bombs that could break up the entire world, why would only North America exist?

Did America simply bomb everybody else around them, until the entire continent was surrounded in the rubble of other countries?

Also, why would New York or Florida exist (the two settings mentioned in the novel) if both are so close to sea level?

Sorry, folks on the sea level.

We are told thousands of small, inhabitable islands exist in this world. Still, I cannot believe that the billions of people in the most mountainous countries wouldn't find some way to escape, or find some islands to live on in small communities. Thousands of years ago, ancient peoples boated across entire oceans to tiny little islands - and they survived! And they still exist today!

Let's go back to economics. Or rather, let's talk about trade.

In Wither, the characters are seen eating strawberries and candies and desserts. They're considered opulent, but if one considers the world we're given, I'll explain why having access to these sorts of goods would be almost impossible.

Where do the crops come from? Most of American agriculture takes place in places like California and the Midwest. The Midwest is closer to sea level than much of the US, especially around the Mississippi - it would undoubtedly flood, meaning finding fertile places to grow wheat, corn, etc. would be difficult. China, which also doesn't exist in Wither, is also a huge exporter of corn, soy and wheat. Common day foods that exist in this world (genetically modified or not) would be near impossible to grow.

How is America existing as it is, without the support of other countries, for their resources, labor and trade? How do the sister wives suck on all those candies on their silk(import of India) sheets without the world's biggest sugar suppliers (import of EU and India)? Even if America did grow every single one of its own crops to the poor cities, where do they get the gasoline to fuel their cars? How do they build new cars?

Where do they get raw materials? Do they salvage the materials from the old cities under the surface? Where do they get gas to run their cars? The guns and ammo? The power to heat and light their houses? Where do these things come from?

If New York still exists as an industrialized city, how have they lost all communication with the outside world? Radios, computers, phones, satellites should still exist, shouldn't they? They didn't simply stop existing, did they? Shouldn't the wealthy at least have them?

In terms of labor, considering that the population is made up of young people, how would you maintain a stable, growing workforce of skilled laborers? How do you find the resources (and time) to train laborers if anybody of mentor age would be sick or dead?

The industrialized state of America we see here is simply unfeasible.

Furthermore, genetic engineering requires advanced technologies and labs that require materials that would not be commonplace or inexpensive. The raw materials themselves have to be mined out of places in the Middle East or Africa, but we are told these places don't exist either.

Also, one final thing: it is important to consider how and why social and religious beliefs change over time.

Wither doesn't take place that far into the future. A hundred years at the most. Still, I can't imagine something like polygamy, even given the drastic world situation, ever becoming normalized or mainstream in American culture. We are a monogamous, Christian-influenced culture, and many Americans consider polygamy as barbaric or cult-like.

It would make sense if polygamy was mandated by the government/church/some other power, although we do not see much of this organized governmental terror outside of the Housemasters and Gatherers (I am still not entirely clear as to what these roles mean and their exact function in this society). Or, it would make sense if the story take place in a culture/country (or even a cult!) where polygamy was once common, so it's more of a step back to traditional ways.

Beyond all the world-building issues, however, I enjoyed DeStefano's writing -- she has some beautiful, thoughtful imagery that would make me stop and ponder. I even marked pages where I loved a certain passage. I enjoyed the dynamic between the sisterwives, and I even liked Linden in a strange and fascinated sort of way, but I like gray characters and reading about their distasteful situations.

3.5 stars, despite my rantings, and mostly for the beautiful writing and keeping me up through the night.

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Reading Progress

07/16/2011 page 26
7.0% "I've read this book before, but it was called The Handmaid's Tale. Like, almost exactly. Even the style is similar in a dreamy and pretty way." 1 comment
07/18/2011 page 26
7.0% "I know many of you guys didn't care for this one, but...I actually am enjoying it. Science issues and world-building logic aside, I think it's the poetic language that got to me. And I know the situation with the child sister-wives is, well, gross to some people, it's just fascinating to me." 4 comments
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Comments (showing 1-38 of 38) (38 new)

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Anila California actually does exist in this world, and I never got the impression that America was broken up into islands. It seemed to me that it was perfectly intact, but I may have missed something.


Jess I have a theory about the whole 'Americans being the only surviving people' thing. For the sake of the series, I hope it's used, because then it'd make sense and wouldn't look dicky and stupid.
Basically, the Americans think that the rest of the world is all dead thanks to some sort of propaganda. Meanwhile, everyone else on earth is sipping tea with each other, laughing about how stupid those Americans have gotten to rely so heavily on genetic engineering and fucked up their entire culture.

A girl can hope, right?


Lady Eilonwy Jess wrote: "I have a theory about the whole 'Americans being the only surviving people' thing. For the sake of the series, I hope it's used, because then it'd make sense and wouldn't look dicky and stupid.
Bas..."


Yes, she can. I would love if that turns out to be the case. I would forgive everything else that didn't make sense in the world if that's true.

Anila, it's never fully explained, is it? And why in the world would only the US be intact? I mean, did the US just bomb everyone else and their continents?


Cory I knew you'd go ballistic on the world building. Seriously, would you write an awesome post on worldbuiding sometime?


Anila Nope, it's never fully explained, and there's no logic at all.

Jess, I love that suggestion! If that turns out to be the case (highly unlikely) I wanna know, because then the sequels would be worth reading


Lady Eilonwy Cory wrote: "I knew you'd go ballistic on the world building. Seriously, would you write an awesome post on worldbuiding sometime?"

Heck yes. I would love to.


message 7: by Palice Pottle (new)

Palice Pottle Yes, Moorchild, please write some more about world-building. I could use another lecture.


message 8: by AH (new)

AH You've touched upon an interesting topic. I've read a few post-apocalyptic books lately and strangely enough, the world is California, not much else. Now, I'll suspend belief for a little while, but what about the rest of the world. Surely there must be survivors elsewhere?


message 9: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Hmmm, I also believe that the people in America have been lead to believe they are the only ones who survived. I am expecting that they will make contact with people from elsewhere.

I also did not think it was islands. And there were poor people. All sorts of homeless people in NY at least. It is interesting how different people read the same thing and see a completely different thing. Maybe that is a sign of bad world building. I am not sure.


Lady Eilonwy Christ, I believe this is the longest review I have ever written.


Lady Eilonwy Palice wrote: "Yes, Moorchild, please write some more about world-building. I could use another lecture."

I am fairly sure the final of this review (which I just posted) would count as like, three rants.


Lady Eilonwy AH wrote: "You've touched upon an interesting topic. I've read a few post-apocalyptic books lately and strangely enough, the world is California, not much else. Now, I'll suspend belief for a little while, bu..."

I understand isolationism as an aspect of post-apocalyptic fiction, but I dunno how much I by it, honestly. California is a densely populated place.

I don't know if you're much into video games, but Fallout: New Vegas is post-apocalyptic, and it took place in Nevada, but California (and Californians) were involved, mostly because they were trying to take over southwestern territories.


Lady Eilonwy Jan wrote: "Hmmm, I also believe that the people in America have been lead to believe they are the only ones who survived. I am expecting that they will make contact with people from elsewhere.

I also did ..."


Maybe, I can't say for sure. But you're right, America is still intact, not a bunch of islands.

There were poor people in New York, but I wasn't meaning them. How would you feed those people? What would you feed them?


Anila Had to unlike it and like it again just 'cause the final product was AWESOME. Great review!


message 15: by Lady Eilonwy (last edited Jul 22, 2011 10:37am) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lady Eilonwy Anila wrote: "Had to unlike it and like it again just 'cause the final product was AWESOME. Great review!"

Thank you! I feel honored to receive a re-like!


message 16: by Muntoo (new)

Muntoo Meddler See my review for more ideas. :) http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...


message 17: by Bry (new)

Bry This is a fantastic review. A lot of these new authors are expecting readers to take their word at face value without doing the necessary research into the universe they are writing which is extremely disappointing.


Cassie Bry wrote: "This is a fantastic review. A lot of these new authors are expecting readers to take their word at face value without doing the necessary research into the universe they are writing which is extre..."

Agreed!

Great review - it really seems like you spent more time thinking about the world that she created than she ever did.

I had the feeling that the U.S. situation was propaganda as well.


Lady Eilonwy Cassie wrote: "Bry wrote: "This is a fantastic review. A lot of these new authors are expecting readers to take their word at face value without doing the necessary research into the universe they are writing wh..."

I hope so, too. It probably is. That would be a good twist. Still, seems a shame that such important details wouldn't come about until book two or three.

Bry wrote: "This is a fantastic review. A lot of these new authors are expecting readers to take their word at face value without doing the necessary research into the universe they are writing which is extre..."

Thank you very much! Honestly, DeStefano has some very pretty writing and good ideas. A little editing on the science/world-building part would have probably increased this to a 4 or 5 start rating. Honestly, as long as an explanation is plausible in a story, I'll believe most anything.


Michelle, the Bookshelf Stalker Moorchild, absolutely fantastic review. You impressed the hell out of me.


Lady Eilonwy Michelle, the Bookshelf Stalking wrote: "Moorchild, absolutely fantastic review. You impressed the hell out of me."

Wow! Thank you, Michelle! :D


message 22: by Lisa (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lisa This book has led to some amazing reviews and yours is definitely one of them. :)


Lady Eilonwy Lisa wrote: "This book has led to some amazing reviews and yours is definitely one of them. :)"

It sure has! Some very insightful ones. Thank you!


message 24: by kari (new)

kari Great review. Very thorough and thought out.


message 25: by Gabe (new) - rated it 5 stars

Gabe Moorchild, this is an amazing review! It addresses every single issue I have with almost every dystopian novel I've read in the past couple of years.


Lady Eilonwy Gabe wrote: "Moorchild, this is an amazing review! It addresses every single issue I have with almost every dystopian novel I've read in the past couple of years."

Thank you, Gabe! Me too. Classic dystopia was my favorite science fiction genre in high school, so it saddens me to see what the genre has become.


Nichole The timeframe issue does not bother me because your view of the time frame is slightly flawed. The book states that the technique was deveolped 70 years ago, it does not state that it went into mass use at that time it just uses an eventual sentence of "flawed natural children ceased to be conceived". Also the first fully re-engineered generation is still alive but again we are unsure of exactly how old they are as they are described as "practically immortal". You can speculate that this could at minimum be 100 years in the future but it could also be much longer. Her parents are stated to be well into their 50's when she was born so that would be at least 140 years post manipulations if you are basing societal break down on the exact day of manipulation discovery. It also never states that the entire world other than the US is missing, the mention of Big Ben is made in the present and the nations of India and Japan are the two specifically mentioned as the ones that could not survive. It is true however that we are never told exactly what it is that they could not survive or how they ended up at the bottom of the ocean. Maybe it's not important to the actually story of the evolution of the people.
I'm not trying to prove that there are no loop holes or small misses on full explanations but I do think there is enough evidence on your specific points that there may be more of an explanation than the straight forward way in which you presented. Also it would be very believable that even if other parts of the world/county exist they would have poor to no communication with them anyway. Given the state of society and shortness of lifespan that societal customs would go through an accelerated Darwinian case of natural selection.


Beautiful Not to be mean but...nowhere in this book did it ever sate that only America existed. Also, the poor does exist in this book not just the rich. Rhine was apart of the poor/middle class until she was kidnapped by the Gathers.


Lady Eilonwy Q. wrote: "Not to be mean but...nowhere in this book did it ever sate that only America existed. Also, the poor does exist in this book not just the rich. Rhine was apart of the poor/middle class until she wa..."

You're not being mean, Q. It's just discussion about books. :)

I am referring to the part where Rhine talks about the rest of the world beyond Florida/New York:

"The damage was so catastrophic that all that remains of the rest of the world is ocean and tiny inhabitable islands so tiny..." on page 55, and the parts where Rhine studies about the countries that no longer exist, like Japan. My interpretation from these sections and more was that, as far as the main characters knew, only the USA survived the catastrophes described.

In my review, I didn't state that the poor didn't exist in Wither. They do; they're described in New York, and Rhine was poor as well.

My statement was about how impossible it would be for the world to reach this state given the expense of gene therapy and limited access of said technologies to populations which are not the highly wealthy. I was arguing that the generations before the main characters in Wither who were poor could not have been "made perfect," not that the poor don't exist in Wither.


NaomiRuth I agree with your second point, but as for the whole thing with America being the only existing continent: we do not know for certain if this is a correct statement. We only know this information from Rhine, who has heard it from her parents, who may or may not be dependable as a source of viable information. I still hold out hope that in the sequel we will find that America is not the only continent, because I agree that such a thing would be unbelievable.


message 31: by Lucy (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lucy Morgan Naomi wrote: "I agree with your second point, but as for the whole thing with America being the only existing continent: we do not know for certain if this is a correct statement. We only know this information f..."

I concur. There's even a point where Rose comments on the Rhine as if she has actually seen it, though Rhine herself was ignorant of her namesake at the time.


papalbina fantastic review!! thank you for summarizing all the things about world building that made my eyes roll while reading.

and i agree with you in that other point: destefano can write beautifully.


Lady Eilonwy papalbina wrote: "fantastic review!! thank you for summarizing all the things about world building that made my eyes roll while reading.

and i agree with you in that other point: destefano can write beautifully."


Thank you!

And she really can. I'd still like to read something by her in the future.


Lady Turtles Why would it be propaganda though and why isn't there anyone pointing out just how little sense the propaganda makes? I don't remember any signs of a strong tyrannical government in this book. Considering all the theft, murder, kidnapping and rape that occurs that country actually seems pretty lawless. So where would this piece of propaganda come from?

Even if it was propaganda, there should be a whole army of scientists pointing out how little sense it makes. A volcanic eruption is enough to cause a very cold devastating year thanks to all the dust and gasses it tosses up into the sky. Just imagine how much our climate would mess up if we turned entire continents to rubble. Surely there must have been more than one scientist pointing out how none of this added up at all considering Florida's still there and the climate seems perfectly comfortable.


Lady Eilonwy Lady Turtles wrote: "Why would it be propaganda though and why isn't there anyone pointing out just how little sense the propaganda makes? I don't remember any signs of a strong tyrannical government in this book. Cons..."

Very good points! There are so many things left unexplained...


message 36: by Mei (new) - rated it 3 stars

Mei Moorchild wrote: "Jess wrote: "I have a theory about the whole 'Americans being the only surviving people' thing. For the sake of the series, I hope it's used, because then it'd make sense and wouldn't look dicky an..."

Yah I was thinking that too. Like seriously? When the author said that the only reason America survived was because they had the most technology and therefore the strongest, I wanted to literally rip the book to shreds and then burn them. I can name at least three countries that would most definitely have a bigger economy than America by the time the whole fiasco would have taken place then at least five that have more advanced technology. Like did the author fail grade five or something? And I could understand why the other countries, since it would only be logical that they're completely fine, wouldn't want to help America. Like since my dad is into politics, he nicknamed it "the bully". They basically use their power and influence to force everyone else to do their bidding and give up their natural resources, so if I wer a president, I would let everyone die a slow painful death there too.


message 37: by Mai (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mai Just a quick note. I finished the book - and there was a lot of suspending my disbelief. But that said DeStefano has a beautiful voice.

And the whole only America survived - that's what they are told in the book, but she sets it up where maybe that's what the country has been told and the rest of the world is still out there. I guess there are enough old people around to still have a functional government and a viable military - easy with technology.

Yup, suspending my disbelief was too hard. Lots of the books were not plausible.


Deborah Jess wrote: "I have a theory about the whole 'Americans being the only surviving people' thing. For the sake of the series, I hope it's used, because then it'd make sense and wouldn't look dicky and stupid.
Bas..."


ahhhh brilliant!! I completely agree. I'm half way through and have been thinking that since the first few sentences! I really should have found this site before I paid for this book :(


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