Manny's Reviews > The Qur'an / القرآن الكريم

The Qur'an / القرآن الكريم by الله-جل جلاله
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Have other people noticed that the Qur'an is listed here as being by Allah, whereas the Bible is by "Anonymous"? If I were a Christian, I think that would leave me feeling just a little annoyed.
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Since I posted this review, the entry has been changed, and the Qur'an is now also listed as being by "Anonymous"!

Well, whoever did that is a braver man or woman than I am. I admire your chutzpah. So to speak.
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And now it's "Allah" again!

My impression is that the Muslims and the Infidels are pretty evenly matched here. Looks like it'll be a close game.
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Mere days later, and now we're back to "Anonymous"!

I'm particularly impressed by the good sportsmanship both sides are displaying. Who says a religious war can't be carried out in a civilized and courteous manner?
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In a surprise move, the author has now been changed yet again to 'ALLAH "the creator" (As believed in Islam)'. Match that if you can, Infidels!
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"Anonymous" once more, but to be honest it seems rather unimaginative. Come on, Infidels, you can come up with something better than this, can't you? What would Dawkins do?
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Back to "Allah" again. I clicked on His page and was immediately confronted with some interesting options. I could become a fan! (I was surprised to see that Allah didn't have any fans. Evidently I'd been misinformed). I was also asked if He had a blog, and on reading further discovered that
As a librarian, you can create a blog for this author even if they're not on Goodreads by adding the feed URL (Atom or RSS) of a blog they keep elsewhere. This will make summaries of their blog posts available here.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any blog kept by Allah, but if I discover one I'll make sure I use this feature.

Oh, and by the way He doesn't have any upcoming events either. Is this correct, or merely a reflection of the fact that He exists outside of space and time?
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Ho hum... "Anonymous" is back. He/she has written a whole lot more books than Allah, but also lacks fans. Well, that's one thing they have in common...
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Flash update: the author has now been changed to "God"!

This boldly ecumenical move impresses me. God, I learn from His Homepage, is the author not only of the Quran but also of The Gospels of Jesus (KJV) with Search Every Verse Navigation, Optimized for E-Readers, where He is credited as the author and King James as the translator. He has not written any other books. Well, I've never pretended to understand theology, but I recognize new thinking when I see it. I hope someone more competent than I am is already preparing an exegesis.

The page ends with the following rather intriguing prayer:
Is this you? Let us know. If not, help out and invite God to Goodreads.
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I'm disappointed to say that we've now got "Anonymous" again. Whoever did that should be ashamed of themselves. "God" was inspired, this is just dull.

What other possible candidates could there be? Muhammad (PBUH)? The Angel Gabriel? Abu Bakr? Muhammad (PBUH), Bakr, Uthman and Hafsa? We need some fresh ideas here.
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After several months of inactivity, we have another change, but it was worth waiting for: "Allâh (God Almighty)".

Brilliant! Isn't that circumflex just to die for?
_________________________________________

The Infidels, with their characteristic rapier wit, have changed the author back to "Anonymous". Sorry, but I am not impressed. And don't give me that Goodreads Policy crap. Plenty of holy books are not listed as being by Anonymous, for example The Book of Mormon and The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I look forward to seeing the Muslims' next move - I think they have the initiative.
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The Muslims score again with "ALLAH" (all caps), who has also written Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 2 and Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 3. Mysteriously, there is no Volume 1. ALLAH has three quotes, of which the first is "لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل" ("There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his prophet").

Now that's class. Okay, Infidels, let's see if you can change the author to something that's not yet another "Anonymous". I dare you. I double dare you.
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Boo! A few days later, and "Anonymous" is back. Honestly, it's enough to make you want to convert to Islam.
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Allah has returned again, but in a confusingly different form! This time, I found He was only the author of the Qur'an and had two fans, Nabila and Tarek. I decided that it was prudent to become a fan as well.

I checked to see which authors were like Allah, and was startled to see that the list included Alexandre Dumas and Italo Calvino. I'm sure it's greatly to their credit.
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That didn't last long. Notgettingenough, whose opinions I greatly respect, felt that it was inappropriate for me to be a fan of Allah. On reconsideration, I agree with her. I have cancelled my brief fanship and hope that both parties will understand it was an honest mistake.
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The Infidels only have one idea, and here it is again. Sigh...
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The Muslims are back, and score another fine goal with "الله". That's "Allah" in Arabic script for all you people who can't be bothered to check it on Google Translate.

Contrary to what certain skeptics may say, religious belief appears to give you imagination. Go Islam! !الله أكبر
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Without waiting for the Infidels to reply, the Muslims score again with "الله جلَّ جلاله". The person responsible has even created a cool avatar for His homepage. Nice work!

Admit it, Infidels: you have been comprehensively outplayed here. The classiest thing to do would be to have some suitable representative come forward and formally concede. That might at least win you back some respect.
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The Infidels refuse to admit defeat, and come back for the ninth time (I counted) with the single move they know how to make. Though, confusingly, the title of the book is now given only in Arabic script.

If it's an attempt at a compromise solution, I very much doubt that the Muslims will buy it. Watch this space.
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I presume that the Infidels' peace overture was scornfully rejected. They have retaliated by changing the title to Roman script only, even removing the apostrophe.

Cheeky! This flagrantly provocative gesture will surely not go unpunished.
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After 40 days of inactivity (significant or what?) the Muslims strike back with another "Allah". I suspect that the move is deeper than it looks, since His new homepage contains a long quote in Arabic referring to several passages in the Qur'an. Maybe someone better acquainted with these matters can explain it to the rest of us?
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A little more than a day later, it's "Anonymous" again.

I think the Infidels have a home side advantage here, which makes me admire the brave and resourceful Muslim hackers all the more. Come on Islam! You can beat those security measures!
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"Allah" has returned, and this time after only 21 days away! It looks like the Muslims have recovered from their unexpected loss of form.

Now, the question is how long they can keep possession. Both sides are demonstrating extraordinary tenacity in this long-drawn-out conflict! Quite inspiring to all us wishy-washy agnostics sitting on the sidelines...
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The pattern from last time repeats: "Allah" lasts less than a day, and is quickly set back to "Anonymous".

It's no good making excuses any more. The romantic in me wants the exciting, creative Muslims to win, but the facts are more than obvious: however they've managed it, the grimly humorless Infidels have taken their game to a new level. Over the last couple of months, they've been in charge 95% of the time.

Muslims, you need to figure out what the Infidels are doing and stop them. It's as simple as that.
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I was about to despair, but Allah is back! Though I am surprised to see that He still only has two fans, the ever-faithful Nabila and Tarek. Truly, their reward will be great.

I do wonder what thoughts Amazon have on this vital question. Which way could the different options push sales in the Muslim world? I imagine they have top analysts crunching the numbers as I write.
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Incredible but true: the Infidels have finally come up with a new idea! The author of the Qur'an is now given as "A".

Who is A, I hear you ask? I haven't the slightest notion. The one slim lead we're given is that A has also co-authored Jamba Juice Power with Kirk Perron - possibly a minor prophet, but, to be honest, I'm clutching at straws here.

I don't dare predict what might happen next. Stay tuned.
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"A" lasted mere hours, and now it's Allah again. For people who haven't yet looked at His Homepage, there is some interesting theological information:

gender: male
genre: Religion
influences: Almighty Yahweh, Jesus Christ

Oh, and He has now acquired a third fan, Esraa.

MJ claims to have tracked down the hackers. Kyle, Fil and Zain (if you are indeed the people responsible), please take a bow!
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An hour after the post above, Abbey and Amritorupa swear that the author was briefly changed to "A Nonny Mouse" - but it only lasted a few minutes before reverting to Allah.

I have never seen so much activity. Has a fatwa been issued? Are Amazon hoping to boost sales of the new Q'indle?
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And another hour later, it's Anonymous.

Whatever is going on? Is it the end of the world? I have consulted the Book of Revelation, but all I can find is 22:10:
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
I suppose that may be a warning against blocking changes to authorship attributions on Goodreads, but I'm not at all sure.
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Yesterday, I started reading Richard Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights, and this morning I see that Allah has returned! I must quote Burton's wonderful opening lines:
PRAISE BE TO ALLAH - THE BENEFICENT KING - THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE - LORD OF THE THREE WORLDS - WHO SET UP THE FIRMAMENT WITHOUT PILLARS IN ITS STEAD - AND WHO STRETCHED OUT THE EARTH EVEN AS A BED - AND GRACE, AND PRAYER-BLESSING BE UPON OUR LORD MOHAMMED - LORD OF APOSTOLIC MEN - AND UPON HIS FAMILY AND COMPANION TRAIN -PRAYER AND BLESSINGS ENDURING AND GRACE WHICH UNTO THE DAY OF DOOM SHALL REMAIN - AMEN! - O THOU OF THE THREE WORLDS SOVEREIGN!
I was a bit puzzled by the bed, but after a couple of chapters realized that it must be a "carpet-bed", presumably some kind of Middle Eastern futon. Just in case you were also wondering.
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The Muslims are having a good week, and Allah (the most merciful, the most magnificent) is now in correct Arabic script again! If you cut and paste into Google Translate and click on the loudspeaker icon, you can even hear how it's pronounced.
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There is no Majesty and there is no Might save in Allah the Glorious, the Great! (I understand from Richard Burton that this is the polite Islamic equivalent of our own "Jesus H. Christ!") We're back to Anonymous.

Come on Infidels, you're boring us all to death. But I just know you can do better. Raise your game and make your fellow-atheists proud of their lack of belief!
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Allah has returned to Goodreads, and has yet again reorganized His homepage! The opening at any rate looks familiar:

description

But a little further down, I found this:

description
I'm sorry, it's more responsibility than I can handle. Someone else will have to take care of it.
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And the new author is A... a... a... nonymous. Don't know why, but I just can't stop yawning today. Must have stayed up too late or something.
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Looking at the Librarian Edits Page is almost scary. While I was asleep, the author was first changed to "كلام الله جمعه عثمان بن عفان" by Wafa, and then to "Allah الله" by Anwaar. All in all, there are 87 pages of edits.

I hope someone is archiving this priceless cultural document, which surely contains enough material for at least two doctoral dissertations...
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An hour later, it's briefly flipped back to "Anonymous" before changing yet again to "'الله aka Allah", and we're now up to 89 pages of edits.

I see it's going to be Another Of Those Days. I should have guessed as much when I saw on Yahoo News that a two-headed calf had been born, a rain of frogs had occurred, and Lady Gaga had been photographed wearing a sensible outfit with flat shoes...
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It's all I can do to keep up. Since it'll probably change even before I've finished posting, here's a screenshot I saved from the current version of Allah's Homepage:

description
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Back to Anonymous. Though now I don't know who to root for, since it appears that some Infidels have started ironically supporting Allah. I wish theology was less confusing.
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Allah has returned once more! I immediately click to His new Homepage, and find a book ad with the title Earth Is In Dire Trouble.

Just a coincidence, I suppose.
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Alhamdulillah! (الحمد لله‎; one of the many useful expressions I have learned from Richard Burton). The Infidels once again change the author to Anonymous, but Islam's ever-vigilant cyberwarriors immediately change it back, even using "Allah Almighty" to show that they, at least, possess imagination and a sense of fun.

I apologize to my atheist friends for my obvious partiality, mais c'est plus fort que moi.
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(after taking a break from my reporting duties)

ALLAH (ALL-CAPS) IS BACK! GABRIEL AND MUHAMMAD (PBUH) ARE ALSO CREDITED! TAKE THAT, INFIDELS!
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Anonymous returns, but with an interesting new twist: he (He?) is now credited as "Speaker". In other words, the Qur'an was dictated, not by Allah, but by someone else.

I do not pretend to understand these theological subtleties at any but the most superficial level. All the same, I feel I should remind the person who made the change that this seems uncomfortably close to the idea which got Mr. Rushdie into so much trouble a few years ago.
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I just stumbled across the Uncyclopedia entry for Anonymous. At risk of repeating myself, it is entirely inappropriate that this person should be credited with the authorship of the Qur'an.

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Comments (showing 1-50 of 674) (674 new)


message 1: by Vinaya (new)

Vinaya Why, though? I mean, isn't the Bible a sort of anthology of various people's experiences and knowledge, rather than a body of work said to have been handed down by one person? Although that would still make Allah the wrong listing for author; sort of like claiming Abraham Lincoln wrote his biography rather than Sandburg. Hmmm...


message 2: by Manny (new) - added it

Manny Isn't the orthodox position that the Bible all came directly from God, just like the Qur'an? I mean, even the King James translation is supposed to...


message 3: by Vinaya (last edited Mar 28, 2011 07:11AM) (new)

Vinaya Really? I'm no theologian, but I would think the very fact that the Bible is comprised of various bits and parts added and detracted through the ages would give the lie to that claim. In so far as I know, the Qu'ran's interpretation may differ, but the integrity of the text has remained unchanged since it was originally written down, so it sounds more plausible to attribute it to one source, if not necessarily Allah.


message 4: by Cory (new)

Cory Vinaya wrote: "Really? I'm no theologian, but I would think the very fact that the Bible is comprised of various bits and parts added and detracted through the ages would give the lie to that claim. In so far as ..."

True. The Qu'ran has remained unchanged since it was first organized. Muslims don't even count the Qu'ran as being holy unless it is written in Arabic. Besides that, there is only one translation of it.

The bible has gone through so many translations--in fact, they lost the original copy of the bible during the dark ages, or some time before the inquisition. And so many guys have taken books out and added books in that it really has no integrity as the word of God anymore--although I don't really care much though because I'm not a Christian. I think of the Bible as fiction.

So yeah, Qu'ran, by: Allah. The Bible, by: Man.

As for the Torah, I know nothing about that.


message 5: by Cory (new)

Cory Brian wrote: "Cory wrote: "they lost the original copy of the bible during the dark ages, or some time before the inquisition..."

Wait- there was a single acknowledged "original" copy of the Bible? I never he..."


At one point in time, around when the Council of Nicea got together. Remember, it was written in Latin/Hebrew/Aramic/Greek. How many people could read, let alone read those languages? The Greek versions didn't even survive.


message 6: by Cory (new)

Cory Brian wrote: "What a thing to misplace!"

Right? How can you loose the Bible?


message 7: by Vinaya (last edited Mar 28, 2011 08:49AM) (new)

Vinaya I'm sorry, but this conversation makes NO SENSE! Nobody lost the Bible!!! And there was no "original" Bible to be lost, either. There was a general consensus at the First Council of Nicea about what the unified Church-authorized version of the New Testament was going to be, and they randomly cut out other versions of existing doctrine that did not suit their world view, and declared them blasphemous. But Biblical texts and doctrine pre-date the Council of Nicea, which only convened in 375 A.D., I think, but I'll need Wikipedia for the exact date!


message 8: by Kaia (new)

Kaia Also The Torah is part of the Tanakh and the Tanakh = The Old Testament.

Which is why the Bible has that whole "Homosexuality is wrong" vs "Actually Jesus doesn't care about your sexuality at all he just wants you to be a good person" conflict going.

Sorry. I know this is none of my business, but as a Jew it's always kind of baffled me why Christians cling to a part of the Bible that contradicts their actual Savior's beliefs.


Maja (The Nocturnal Library) I guess it would be far more accurate to list Muhammad a.s. as the author of Qur'an since he was the one who dictated it to his followers. This is where the Qur'an actually differs from the Bible - the entire book came from a single person.


Whether or not he received the suras from an angel (we call them meleks in Bosnia) is another matter entirely.

Also (and this is a slight digression), as far as I know, the Bible can be freely touched and read by anyone, while there are very strict rules about touching, reading and even shelving the Qur'an.


message 10: by Chichipio (new)

Chichipio Muhammad: The original ghostwriter.


message 11: by Vinaya (new)

Vinaya Chichipio wrote: "Muhammad: The original ghostwriter."

Actually, that would be Abu Bakr, who actually WROTE the Qu'ran; Muhammad orally taught the word of god. His words were put into writing by Abu Bakr. So he's the granddaddy of ghostwriters!


message 12: by Cory (new)

Cory Vinaya wrote: "I'm sorry, but this conversation makes NO SENSE! Nobody lost the Bible!!! And there was no "original" Bible to be lost, either. There was a general consensus at the First Council of Nicea about wha..."

Here is what Wikipedia says on it:

The oldest surviving Hebrew Bible manuscripts date to about the 2nd century BC (fragmentary), the oldest record of the complete text survives in Greek translation, dating to the 4th century (Codex Sinaiticus) and the oldest extant manuscripts of the vocalized Masoretic text upon which modern editions are based date to the 9th century AD.

They only have fragments of the original translation. I think the Bible was originally written in Hebrew. Then they translated it to Greek and Aramic because later on because many people didn't read or speak Hebrew. The oldest whole text copy is written in Greek. Then they translated it to Latin for Catholicism. So technically, they did 'loose' the original copy. I'm still wondering how that's possible.


message 13: by Cory (new)

Cory Vinaya wrote: "Chichipio wrote: "Muhammad: The original ghostwriter."

Actually, that would be Abu Bakr, who actually WROTE the Qu'ran; Muhammad orally taught the word of god. His words were put into writing by A..."


Muhammad has a disturbing love life. That's all I have to say about him, no offense to any Muslims out there.


message 14: by Vinaya (new)

Vinaya Cory wrote: "They only have fragments of the original translation. I think the Bible was originally written in Hebrew. Then they translated it to Greek and Aramic... "

Actually, if I remember right, the Tanakh was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. The New Testament was supposed to have been written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Syriac, only that is largely speculative since the only indication of biblical text preceding the Greek Bible are the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, the Greek translation is not necessarily the translation of the 'original' Bible. in fact, you'll find no theological scholar who would make a stand like that. It's the only surviving record of a unified Old and New Testament, but not necessarily the only one that ever existed. I'm going to stop discoursing on this now because a) I am disturbed by the amount of completely useless information I have stored in my brain on this subject, and b) most of it is not authoritative because I can't remember where I read this stuff, so I could be shooting fish in a barrel for all I know!


message 15: by Cory (new)

Cory What you're saying sounds about right. My only point is that they don't have the original bible, while I think they still have the original Qu'ran.

I wouldn't say that's useless knowledge. Now, my knowledge of Glee is absolutely useless. With historical knowledge of the bible, you might win Jeopardy. With Glee and general pop-culture trivia, not so much.


message 16: by Brian R. (new)

Brian R. Mcdonald Manny's original point is still well taken. Both the Bible and the Quran purport to be the direct Word of God, as dictated to humans. So, for that matter, does the Book of Mormon [as well as the part of the Boble known as the Torah]. Believers in ay one of these would credit the appropriate diety as the author. Yet Goodreads lists Allah as the author of the Quran, anonymous as he author of the Bible, and Joseph Smith of the Book of Mormon.


message 17: by Chichipio (new)

Chichipio It's never been about who writes a book. The listed author reflects only who gets credit for it. Maybe Allah has a better agent than God.

Otherwise, how can anyone explain the fact that Snooki, Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie are "authors" when they can't even string a sentence together?


message 18: by Hazel (new)

Hazel Nice going, Manny. :-)


message 19: by Paul (new) - added it

Paul  Perry Brian R. wrote: "...as well as the part of the Boble known as the Torah]..."

that may be a typo, but from now on i'm going to refer to this book as the Boble!


message 20: by Brian R. (new)

Brian R. Mcdonald It was a typo. If it were intended as a sarky remark, it would probably have been "Booble".


message 21: by Vinaya (new)

Vinaya Oh NO! Why? We were having such a good time with the religious discrimination against the Boble. (LOVE that word!) Also, you have just rendered Manny's thoughtful, theologically-sound review completely obsolete! o_O


message 22: by Kat Kennedy (new)

Kat Kennedy To say that the original Bible was lost is a very painful misinterpretation of the history of the Bible.

Good point, Manny. It is odd.


message 23: by Eve (new)

Eve Davids Saying the original bible was lost is a clear situation of misunderstanding things.

Manny, applause.

As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or the Holy Spirit-it differs.

Personally, I think its important to read the Quran if you want to understand Jihad and other Muslim extremists action. Unlike the bible that seems to have one universal law that trumps all other laws, the Quran doesnt.
The Bible: Love. Love. Love. Sure homosexuality might be frowned upon in some parts but you are also told that love trumps all. So while I understand the importance of religion in people's lives, I always frown upon those who claim to be against gays because the bible is against it. What's up with that? How about the part that says you should love?
Still, I try not to judge or try to change their mind.
The Quran: Sharia. Sharia. Sharia. Ha! I kid.

Disclaimer: The above are my humble opinions and interpretations of the bible.


message 24: by Cory (new)

Cory TheDuchess wrote: "Saying the original bible was lost is a clear situation of misunderstanding things.

Manny, applause.

As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or the Holy Spirit-it ..."


I hope you kid. I think both books are just as bad. One says women are only worth half a man and the other says a woman is to serve her husband. Why are the big three religions so sexist?


Noran Miss Pumkin I have no issue with the listed author--each to his/her own path to God.


message 26: by Chichipio (new)

Chichipio Cory wrote: "I hope you kid. I think both books are just as bad. One says women are only worth half a man and the other says a woman is to serve her husband. Why are the big three religions so sexist? "

And worse, why isn't there any official and specific mention to the sacred duty of making sandwiches? "To serve her husband" is just not detailed enough. :P


message 27: by Cory (new)

Cory Chichipio wrote: "And worse, why isn't there any official and specific mention to the sacred duty of making sandwiches? "To serve her husband" is just not detailed enough. :P"

Right? That can mean so many things. Don't even get me started on gay marriage...so if two women are married technically they're both wives so who would they serve? And in the case of two men...well, the bible allows for so many loopholes. And what about transgendered people?


message 28: by Eve (last edited Apr 07, 2011 09:09PM) (new)

Eve Davids Cory wrote: "TheDuchess wrote: "Saying the original bible was lost is a clear situation of misunderstanding things.

Manny, applause.

As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or ..."


Well in the context you put it, then I'm inclined to say I am not kidding. Personally, I think the Quran is structured in a way that the information in it is not open to personal interpretation. Also, when you consider how shia Muslims revere Imams, then it is definitely not open to personal interpretation.
The bible however, clearly states, its up to you to digest information and interpret in a way that is good for your soul. Of course, I am paraphrasing, and this only adds to my point of view of its objectiveness.

I am a Christian amongst other things by the way and religion isnt one of the topics I can discuss objectively. I believe religion plays too strong a role in the formation of the self concept for deeply religious people to see through some things. I see nothing bad with either the bible or the Quran or any other religious body of work even though I may not agree with some doctrines they preach.
I think it may help to realize that some rules that were written centuries ago are not meant to be taken literally today. That was the major problem with the book where a guy said he was going to live according to the bible for a whole year.


message 29: by Eve (new)

Eve Davids Cory wrote: "Chichipio wrote: "And worse, why isn't there any official and specific mention to the sacred duty of making sandwiches? "To serve her husband" is just not detailed enough. :P"

Right? That can mean..."


Wow, what a dangerous slippery slope to go on.


message 30: by Cory (new)

Cory I'm not religious so I don't really look at one book being better than the other or more open to interpretation. I've lived with both Muslims and Christians and I don't really see the difference between the religions--the only difference is how they're interpreted in modern times. Old testament says one thing, New testament says something entirely different.

At a certain time, women were property in both religions. That happens when you take text at literal interpretation. But you can't ignore that slavery and sexism existed in both. I won't say anything more because I know I'm bound to offend someone eventually. That's my luck on forums when I can't really express what I fully want to say.


message 31: by Kat Kennedy (new)

Kat Kennedy Yes, well. It's best we not get into a religious debate on poor Manny's thread! These are issues waaaaaaaayyyy too contentious, complicated and requiring critical attention and study.


message 32: by Eve (new)

Eve Davids Cory wrote: "I'm not religious so I don't really look at one book being better than the other or more open to interpretation. I've lived with both Muslims and Christians and I don't really see the difference be..."

I'm a proponent for people speaking their mind. However, personally, I feel religion is too personal of a topic and some people get ticked easily. So many of my friends that we started college with as religious people, left college Atheists. They were all quite deeply religious, Buddhist, Christians, Muslims and so on, but they sort of changed when they couldnt find the practical answers science thought them to look for.
The point is when we get together and they start trying to convince me the world originated from a bloody particle, it irritates the hell out of me. One friend in particular who is getting his PHD in Physics at USC seems set out to do this every time. Hiss.
At the end of the day, I think what matters is that a person is a GOOD person. Of course this can turn into a circus if we start on what exactly is the interpretation of Good, so I wont go there.


message 33: by Manny (new) - added it

Manny Kat wrote: "Yes, well. It's best we not get into a religious debate on poor Manny's thread! These are issues waaaaaaaayyyy too contentious, complicated and requiring critical attention and study."

No, no, I'm flattered! As long as no one starts throwing Molotov cocktails, please go on as long as you want...


message 34: by Kat Kennedy (new)

Kat Kennedy Admit it, Manny. You're just hoping it disolves into jelly wrestling.

I am happy to debate all the "lost" Bible and the whole "censored" Bible issues. But when it comes to meaning, intent and interpretation of scripture - I'm outta here.

Mostly though, I'll be interested in hearing your perspective on the Qur'an as I've never read it, only parts of it.


message 35: by Eve (last edited Apr 07, 2011 11:31PM) (new)

Eve Davids Manny wrote: "Kat wrote: "Yes, well. It's best we not get into a religious debate on poor Manny's thread! These are issues waaaaaaaayyyy too contentious, complicated and requiring critical attention and study..."

Hehe. No, Cory and I are used to having these sort of conversations where our opinions are different. The world is more fun with differences yeah?! If everyone had the same opinion it would be super boringggg.


message 36: by Cory (new)

Cory TheDuchess wrote: "Hehe. No, Cory and I are used to having these sort of conversations where our opinions are different. The world is more fun with differences yeah?! If everyone had the same opinion it would be super boringggg. "

Just so you know TD, I'm no an atheist, so I don't necessarily believe in the whole world particle thing just like I find evolution ridiculous. But I'm not a Christian either.

I do believe in reincarnation--but that's about as far as I go, besides it fits in with science. And I do believe in aliens. So I really don't know where that puts me.

You know, I so used to dealing with trolls and horrible rude people online, I'm always putting up my guard. I keep forgetting that I'm dealing with normal people.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

I have changed the author from Anonymous to Allah. I am sorry for this, but I think that it should be listed as being by Allah since "Allah" is the God who is worshipped by all Muslims around the world, and The Holly Quran is there book, and they believe that it was revealed by Allah, so they have the right to make that claim.
This shouldn't be a problem for Christians or Jews because the nature of the God in the Islamic theology is completely different to the Christian and the Jewish theology; therefore, when I say the Arabic world "Allah" it does not refer to the Jews' God or the Christians' God, it just refers to the God in the Islamic theology. Thus, as long as they do not believe in "Allah" (the God in the Islamic theology)it should't be a problem for them if the Holy Quran is listed as being by "Allah" or Anonymous.

Note: According to the Islamic theology, it should be 'revealed by Allah' because Allah is not an author.


message 38: by Eve (new)

Eve Davids Ahmad wrote: "I have changed the author from Anonymous to Allah. I am sorry for this, but I think that it should be listed as being by Allah since "Allah" is the God who is worshipped by all Muslims around the w..."

There is no Jews' God or Christians' God. They both serve the same God.
I dont see how the nature of God is different in Islam. That statement confuses me very much, sorry.
Are you interchanging God and Jesus Christ?


message 39: by Duffy (new)

Duffy Pratt For what it's worth (and that's not very much) Goodreads lists the Book of Mormon as being by Joseph Smith, and not either by Mormon (as the Mormon's believe), or by Anonymous (to keep in line with the false attributions about the Bible and the Koran).

No matter what, there should be a distinction between an Anonymous author and an Unknown author. Anonymous tends to suggest that the author does not wish to have his identity revealed. Unknown means that we simply don't know who the author was.


message 40: by [deleted user] (new)

Prometheus wrote: "Saying the author is Allah is forcing the claim that your god is true on every non-Muslim member on this site. "

I do not think that Muslims force that claim by saying this. They just attribute there own book to who is regarded as there God.

Any way, although I think that Muslims should have the right to write Allah as an author, I will not change the author of the Quran since the authors of the Bible and the Torah have been listed as Anonymous.


message 41: by QA (new) - added it

 QA Vinaya wrote: "Really? I'm no theologian, but I would think the very fact that the Bible is comprised of various bits and parts added and detracted through the ages would give the lie to that claim. In so far as ...".Iagree with your interpretation.Thanks


message 42: by QA (last edited Apr 25, 2011 03:48AM) (new) - added it

 QA Cory wrote: "Vinaya wrote: "Really? I'm no theologian, but I would think the very fact that the Bible is comprised of various bits and parts added and detracted through the ages would give the lie to that claim...".I find myself in agreement with your explaination.Torah has also changed in the same manner as holy Bible.


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Prometheus wrote: "Ahmad wrote: "Prometheus wrote: "Saying the author is Allah is forcing the claim that your god is true on every non-Muslim member on this site. "

I do not think that Muslims force that claim by sa..."


Saying the author is Muhammad peace be upon him is worse than saying the author is a nonymous.
The argument that Muhammad peace be upon him wrote the Quran is refuted many times in the Quran itself.


message 44: by QA (new) - added it

 QA This is an old discussion regarding the status of Quran.In fact it was the subject of great debate in the medieval ages in the then capital of Baghdad and in Egypt.Various schools of thought of islam were at loggers head on this matter .As for as i can understand, Quran like Bible and Torah etc is the word of God ,revealed to the the prophet through angel or holy spirit.As regards Quran it was immediately written by the companions of the prophet on paper,leaves,wood panels,cloth etc and finally memorized by dozens of followers ,men and women.(This is probably not the case with Bible.).A few years after the death of prophet, the revealed Quran was compiled and consolidated by Osman,the third khalfa or king of the muslims and not by abu bakar as mentioned by someone.God is definitely the creator of holy books but He can not be called the author , a word mainly used for mankind.Its not the word of muhammad(pubh).He is the intermediary like all the messangers of God through whom God interacted with his creature.So in the worldly sense there is no author of Quran or other revealed books and at the same time it can not be termed as anonymous or pyseudonomous as the entity is very much known which created it.Hope this explaination from a layman satisfies our friends.


message 45: by QA (new) - added it

 QA Ok.But it also needs to be seen ,also by our friend manny as to whether these revealed books are really books at all or other wise.This is becaz,in the worldly sense ,neither a pen was used nor ink nor a human hand!!


message 46: by QA (new) - added it

 QA Its not a belief , my dear but a historical fact.Give your specific views on this instead of straight away rejecting it!


message 47: by QA (last edited Jun 15, 2011 04:55AM) (new) - added it

 QA Prometheus wrote: "It's not a historical fact that any religious text was revealed by some god to some special human, these are just the religious beliefs of the followers of each religious text. So unless you have a..."
Can you pl tell when historiography started and do you believe that all the events in the world has been duely recorded then and there.Would you require evidence for every statement or assertion.Let me also tell you that agreement and disagreement by some one does not affect the validity of truth, whether he being religious or un-religious.You also need to answer my question wheher these religious books can be called books at all or not!.I would also like to know whether ever you have studied Quran or other religious books.


message 48: by Megha (last edited Aug 17, 2011 09:13AM) (new)

Megha Someone had objected to 'Anonymous' being the author:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...


message 49: by Joshlynn (new) - added it

Joshlynn I'd change it to Anonymous again but it'd just be changed back and forth in an endless volley. In my opinion if we list the Qur'an as by Allah, we should go all the way and fill in the deities for all the other holy texts.


message 50: by Joshlynn (new) - added it

Joshlynn Even, in the Bible's case, list all of the authors who contributed, including the Anonymous tag in the case of books like Hebrews. Let's make a project of it.


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