David's Reviews > Pride and Prejudice

Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
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Aug 27, 10



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Jason Think he'll ever answer?


Miriam Maybe it brought back traumatic memories of that time he overheard his crush saying that he was only tolerably pretty.


Maureen ha! miriam! :)


Maureen i always thought salinger really liked austen.


Maureen i have convinced many men to read and appreciate austen so that women would sleep with them, always citing salinger as the expert in the matter because of uncle wiggily in connecticut. david is obviously more principled than lew wengler, or those fellows that followed in his footsteps. :P


message 6: by Maureen (last edited Jan 30, 2013 08:09PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen Elizabeth wrote: "They do tend to need some motivation to get them started; with Austen, I think it's okay to play dirty. "

it usually works out in both respects: most have found they truly enjoyed austen in addition to her fringe benefits. :)

this book, if i'm serious for a moment, never fails to discomfit me. every time i read this book, i wait for the netherfield ball with trepidation; every time i will cringe away from the odious mr. collins; every time i am as hotly mortified as elizabeth. i also almost always squeak at the end. i was angry at austen for a while because i worried she'd done damage to our culture, that people have only taken to the wish-fulfillment aspect of her happy endings and not so much the wit and understanding that makes them great. i loved this book more when i was fifteen, and when i was twenty-five than i do now; it has been surpassed by persuasion in my heart. and of course, always surprising when people you like just don't like books you do but in most cases, i think it's okay to just shake our fists at them and move on. :) (i say this because i hate many popular books that lots of other people like. :)


message 7: by Maureen (last edited Feb 03, 2013 02:01PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen Elizabeth wrote: " But underneath all that is the sly humor, her subversive take on what's acceptable for women. I mean, really, Elizabeth wins Darcy by being what Miss Bingley is not, and Miss Bingley is the model of what that society expected women to be. I love that."

agreed. this is the power behind the schmoop, as it were. the other thing that always stayed with me is that the advice of charlotte lucas is so much like the advice i recollect from magazines growing up: "In nine cases out of ten a woman had better show more affection than she feels." this is the kind of thing that i can only believe jane austen found painfully funny but true, given the resources women had at their disposal. unfortunately, it's part of that romantic ideal that i don't think people saw the archness behind it, that many today would still hold with: unless they prefer the opposite stratagem of playing hard to get, what collins claims to be elizabeth's game. to me, these are all stupid games, and i think we certainly see that charlotte's advice means a future of feints, and loneliness. of course, charlotte lucas would point out that i am not married (advantageously or otherwise) so what do i know? :P

i agree that my anger was probably misdirected since austen had no idea she would be the oppenheimer of romance (yeah, i said it. :)

and you're right, the promise of a darcy, or a bill gates, is so improbable, and yet it is written in the heart of every foolish girl who plays a foolish game.

man, david is so lucky that we have had such an excellent discussion in the comments on his non-review. :)


Miriam As Lauper says, "Money Changes Everything."


message 9: by Maureen (last edited Feb 03, 2013 04:20PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen Elizabeth wrote: "... she did what she needed to do to not end up as the forgotten, half-servant maiden aunt in some other woman's household. I get it. Her choices were marriage, half-servant/governess, or life on the streets. It makes sense to me that she'd be heartless about it.

i do see charlotte's point in a mercantile marriage culture. that said, i'm not sure i buy that embarking on a marriage of convenience to ensure one had a home, choosing half-servant/wife, over half-servant/governess would always be the better choice. certainly, austen herself chose the second option over the first, in the matter of harris bigg-wither.

when it comes down to it -- charlotte's pointing at me as a failure at marriage as security is a valid one. i am a stubborn freak. i've turned down two proposals, and one was from somebody who was monied (not a millionaire by any stretch no, but who had his own section (wing is too lofty) of the house with his brother growing up. his parents would call them down to dinner via intercom) and while i sometimes look back and think how much easier my life might've been, i can't ever see it as being the wrong decision. i have plastic face: when i really don't want to be somewhere, you can tell. and nobody wants to sleep with my sleeping with the enemy face, i assure you. :)

but i must underscore i make decisions like this all the time, and i'm fully aware that i will die in the gutter as a result. and so i will honestly tell you that i wouldn't necessarily turn away a billionaire at my door, he'd have to have other qualities before i let him in. and as we both know, such things only happen in novels. :)

(having said all this, i can't help but again think of the salinger story i mentioned above. and how conflicted and unhappy eloise is in her life of security. and i am also now thinking about vanity fair, which while i can't say i really enjoyed it because it was so long-winded, it did address some of the same issues in a slightly different manner -- namely, be unwilling to settle, or be as cutthroat in pursuit of security and you still may end up shiftless)

miriam: lauper also had some notions about true colours, didn't she? :P


Jason You girls just wanna have fu-un!


Maureen good lord! i had no idea she bop was about masturbation!

and now jason's got me re-thinking girls just want to have fu-un!

i used to be so innocent. and now... i mean, i knew about my dingaling, so i guess i should have known better but. i just thought we all loved bopping.


Maureen i did indeed! i typed in: cyndi lauper masturbation. :)


message 13: by Mike (new)

Mike Lester Ok ok on my update page all I saw was "Cyndi Lauper masturbation" and I clicked over here...I guess girls really do just want to have fun :/ Carry on.


message 14: by Maureen (last edited Feb 03, 2013 07:02PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen amazing. i saw that video dozens of times on the weekly video chart and never made any connections! curiosity piqued, i just watched it again, and i suppose "uncle siggy's masterbingo" and an animated flashing gas station sign that said, "self-service" should have cued some kind of understanding, especially as i had read the hite report was i was eleven years old. BUT! i like to think my naivete was spurred by the existence of the big bopper (unless, really?) and the song "good vibrations". i simply thought she was talking in pop. :P

plus there were all those distracting hamburgers. i am so devoted to cheeseburgers that i didn't even notice the special sauce!


Maureen Mike wrote: "Ok ok on my update page all I saw was "Cyndi Lauper masturbation" and I clicked over here...I guess girls really do just want to have fun :/ Carry on."

did you know about this too, mike? was i the only one paying attention to the cheeseburgers and trying to figure out if she was barefoot or wearing socks in the dance number?


message 16: by Mike (new)

Mike Lester I think my troubles with comprehending Cyndi began with the appearance of Capn' Lou Albano in the Girls video. Never associated Cyndi with onanism.


Maureen phew! well, i'm glad i'm not the only one to have learned something today!


Miriam Maureen, I learned this only from reading the lyrics translated into German, if that makes you feel better.


Maureen i would love to see how shebop translates into german.

i remember my brother giving me some beatles tapes in high school that had sie liebt dich ya ya ya on them. :)


message 20: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David Sorry, folks. I choose not to get notifications on most of my reviews/book threads.


message 21: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David Elizabeth, did you never read my David v 2.0 review of this book? It was extremely controversial. A bunch of Austen lovers showed up on the thread and started hatin' on me—hard. I think (maybe?) that was my first encounter with Abigail A.? (Unfortunately not my last.) And Matt (not Mike) Reynolds was making personal attacks on me for hating this book too.

To answer your question: Yes, I read it. Maybe fifteen years ago. It just wasn't my bag.


message 22: by David (last edited Feb 04, 2013 10:26AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

David I knew that 'She-Bop' was about masturbation. But only because when it came originally came out, people would say, 'OMG, did you know that 'She-Bop' is about masturbation?' (Historically many pop songs have had suggestive meanings or subtexts that just pass right over you when you're casually listening to Casey Kasem's countdown. Like Samantha Fox's 'Touch Me (I Want Your Body)' for example.)


Jason David, we're trying to have a conversation here. Please butt out.


message 24: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David I'll delete your conversation, son.

By the power of Grayskull, I HAVE THE POWER.


Jason Where's Battle Cat in that graph? Why no Battle Cat on Grayskull graph, Jay Rubin??


message 27: by David (last edited Feb 04, 2013 10:37AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

David Only He-Man had the power. Battle-Cat didn't have jackshit.


Jason It's all a ruse. He-Man'd have nothin' without Battle Cat.


message 29: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David Sacrilege.

You were probably an Orko fan.


message 30: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David Oh, sure. Elizabeth summons me to this thread, and then she's nowhere to be found...


message 31: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David I don't think I ever read your original review; I'm sorry I missed it.


I'm glad you didn't. You'd probably hate my guts. :(


Jason David wrote: "You'd probably hate my guts. :("

TOO LATE!


karen you guys are all pretty cute.


Jason Elizabeth wrote: "Why don't you like David, Jason? What did he do to you?"

Oh, I have a whole list of grievances I've logged into Excel. Do you want me to list them in chronological order, or in order of decreasing severity?


Maureen if you're going to delete this thread can you please let me know because i wrote a lot of words here. :)

maybe i will just lift them all and put them in my good reads review. just paste everybody right in.

meanwhile, i'm still thrilled with myself for calling austen the oppenheimer of romance. i know. it takes very little. :P


message 36: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David You know how a little boy will be mean to and pull on the ponytail of the little girl he's secretly sweet on?

Well, that's Morais with me. The more he pulls, the more he loves.


message 37: by David (new) - rated it 1 star

David karen wrote: "you guys are all pretty cute."

Yes, I am.


Maureen let's not forget that battlecat was originally cringer. i still have my she-ra princess of power doll. i would be happy to loan it to you for games and shenanigans. :)

and yes, i know all about that pony-tail pulling. i'm glad you guys love each other. :)


Jason It's true. David has really cute pigtails.


Miriam Maureen wrote: "let's not forget that battlecat was originally cringer. "

Was anyone else disturbed by the way He-Man casually supplanted his faithful cat's personality?


Maureen Miriam wrote: "Maureen wrote: "let's not forget that battlecat was originally cringer. "

Was anyone else disturbed by the way He-Man casually supplanted his faithful cat's personality?"


it has been many years since i watched the animated program but as i recall it, even though prince adam was built like a tank he was perceived as a useless tank (maybe klutzy?) until he too, was transformed by the power of greyskull. essentially, both had their personalities supplanted. i always sort of thought they were "possessed" when they were superhuman... but i have some nerd friends who could answer this with confidence, if need be. they'll make me listen to a lot of really bad d&d puns first though. :)


Miriam But Adam had the sword and choose when to use it to transform. I seem to remember Cringer pleading not be turned into Battle Cat. Also, who names their cat Cringer?


message 43: by Maureen (last edited Feb 04, 2013 06:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen the wikipedia (which won't make me listen to d&d jokes) seems to indicate that it was an accident the first time around: "Prince Adam's pet was a cowardly green tiger named Cringer. When Adam became He-Man, he transformed Cringer into a brave armored green tiger named Battle Cat by pointing his sword at him – an ability Adam discovered accidentally the first time he turned into He-Man. Cringer, naturally, cowered in fear at seeing what Adam had become; while reassuring him that nothing had really changed Adam pointed the sword at Cringer, which sent a bolt of energy toward the tiger and transformed him. Battle Cat served as He-Man's steed and fierce fighting companion ever since."[11]

who names their cat hexter? oh. me. :P


Maureen david: did you want to give us the gist? since you're concerned elizabeth would hate your guts if she had read it, you had probably penned a virulent diatribe against the book. was there anything in particular that teed you off?

not that i don't love talking about battle cat and she bop and all that. has everybody read the hite report? :P

(still one of the most enjoyable comment threads on a non-review i've participated in, in recent memory. :)


Maureen Elizabeth wrote: It's okay. I forgave Charlotte Bronte for hating Pride and Prejudice. I can forgive David."

:)

not even a shake of the fist? you are a better woman than I am. :)

i just thought we might cajole him to tell us what he hated about it, just a little bit, since the whole exciting thread came from your curiosity. or maybe i just didn't want it to end with me quoting wikipedia on battle cat. :)

i forgot charlotte bronte hated pride and prejudice. i am not sure i have forgiven mark twain. that quote of his disparaging it drives me crazy because he says "every time i read it" or something to that effect, and in my head i think, if you loathe it so much, why are you reading it again? jerk! :P


Maureen hmmm. i did a quick websearch and ended up finding this article where he seems to have come around on her?

http://becomingjane.blogspot.ca/2008/...

though of course it is an austen fan site so maybe he continued to bitch afterwards?

your comment made me think of that top 50 author put down list i saw recirculating earlier this year. it looks like jane was a common target. i also laughed to see waugh there. who didn't he hate? :P

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-5...

(thank you for the distractions from this film review i can't quite seem to get done. i know i will be happy with it when i am done but i prefer when they fall out of my head fully formed rather than having to chip away. :)


Maureen thanks, elizabeth! i finally finished it, and i think it is not all together terrible. let us see what the editor thinks. :P

the idea that nabokov was inclined to entirely dismiss austen (indeed all women writers) and yet came around enough to teach mansfield park (which i've never been crazy about -- i actually liked the patricia rozema film better, unusual for me) actually makes me want to hug him instead, even if, as you say, he never all together approved.

tangentially related: we all had field day in 2011 when maurice sendak denounced gwyneth paltrow among other things. thought you might enjoy this: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...


message 48: by Maureen (last edited Feb 05, 2013 06:35PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen it's funny because i sometimes think i should go back and re-read it again (it's probably been a decade or more) but i'm not crazy about fanny price as a heroine. i found her very stuffy. and i admit i found the romantic relationship between fanny and edmund really iggy: i mean, he's practically her brother! we're watching her grow up with him and while i'm fully aware cousins married back then all the time, my own feeling as regards family are a bit complicated i can't imagine anyone willingly being with somebody they grew up with.

as for the film, i agree her homecoming was solidly done, but i remember thinking the whole harold pinter having a rapefest in antigua a little on the excessive side. i get that this probably happened all the time; i get that their wealth is founded on the backs of slaves which is only gentled nudged at in the novel but i felt it to be a very jarring distraction in an otherwise interesting interpretation of the film (possibly because this fanny was stronger that the shrinking violet i perceived her to be in the novel). add to that i had an unhealthy jonny lee miller fixation at the time. and i also really like james purefoy.

but vive la différence!

what's your least favourite? is it northanger abbey? mine is northanger abbey though emma makes me crazy. i think it's a better novel but it still makes me crazy.


message 49: by Maureen (last edited Feb 08, 2013 09:40PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maureen i just mentioned to jacob i find it hard to remember what it was like to read these novels for the first time. as you point out, you can never come back to fanny without finding within her a quiet strength, a key transition, and i think that's where a reader's own experience always comes into play, to make them get it more or less. in your case you get it more; in my case i get it less because i'm too busy having family issues. :P

persuasion
pride and prejudice
sense and sensibility
emma
mansfield park
northanger abbey

i always forget about lady susan! i just lump it in with the other fragment novels, the watsons and sanditon. :)


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