1. Maggie actually DEFENDS CLAY!!!!!!!!!!! When her friends are treating him like crap and judging him unfairly,...moreI'm only going to make a few points.
1. Maggie actually DEFENDS CLAY!!!!!!!!!!! When her friends are treating him like crap and judging him unfairly, she actually defends him. I'm sorry, but this is the first time in my life I have ever encountered a heroine who stuck up for the guy she loved. It was because of this that I was able to truly believe her love for him, able to believe in their love for each other.
2. Clay has issues...that are not solved by love. Seriously. When he gets together with Maggie, he's not miraculously cured.
3. Their relationship works because Maggie is strong as hell and can totally handle someone as messed-up as Clay.
4. I'm so thrilled (there are no words) that a book has FINALLY addressed the fact that when a guy acts the way Clay does, it's not simply because he's an ass, but because he is sick and has a mental disorder (or in his case more than one!) People tend to brush off characters like Clay as "just a psycho." But for once, the author understands that, no, actually, there is more to it than that. I think a lot of people can learn something from this, and possibly become less ignorant about the seriousness of mental health. Contrary to what some people believe, individuals like Clay do not "decide" to be assholes. Mental illness is real. This book tells you that.
5. Clay is mature and self-aware enough to understand that he is not in a place where he can be in a relationship with someone. He knows only more destruction will come if he stays with Maggie, so makes the decision to try again to get help so that he can be in a healthy relationship with Maggie and stop hurting her.
6. Love Clay. Love Maggie. And I never love heroines. These aren't just characters. They are real people. And THIS is why I read books. I'd forgotten for a while, there. (less)
I don't even need to justify myself. Ryan and Jenna are amazing characters. At first I thought I'd loathe Jenna with her "Ugly people don't have feeli...moreI don't even need to justify myself. Ryan and Jenna are amazing characters. At first I thought I'd loathe Jenna with her "Ugly people don't have feelings" garbage, but she turned out to be an awesome, caring, kind young woman who, with Ryan's help, really grew as a person. Their romance bloomed from friendship, which is the best way. Jenna's dad, though. Oh, man. If he was my dad I'd have run away from home when I was her age! And don't get me started on Ryan's mom.
She has two sides. I loved her at first, and then...But Cole was awesome. I love how he was Ry's mom's boyfriend, but also really cared about Ry as his own son. Meh. I'm gushing. Just read it. (less)
In case you were wondering, the hero who needs punching is Zane. Come on, man, I love you but there's only so much I can take. It's been six years. Pu...moreIn case you were wondering, the hero who needs punching is Zane. Come on, man, I love you but there's only so much I can take. It's been six years. Put Becky behind you and move on. And while you're at it, when Ty says he needs your help, HELP HIM! Do NOT blow him off like that. Being drunk is not an excuse. And jump on the love train already, will ya? It's been three books. Where is the love the love the love?(less)
Wynter is not good enough for Christopher. She's likable enough in this book, but pretty terrible in the next one. She's sooo full of herself, as well...moreWynter is not good enough for Christopher. She's likable enough in this book, but pretty terrible in the next one. She's sooo full of herself, as well as being ashamed of Christopher.
I'd like for Wynter to be real so I can beat her up. Really. She needs a good knock to the head. She has NO idea how lucky she is to have a guy like Christopher.
Five stars because I adore Christopher and he was in this book a LOT. Otherwise, there was a bit too much crazy drama/depression. Human sacrifice? Fine. Humans being sacrificed coming back as ghosts for further drama? No. It was too much even for me. There's a point when death can be overdone. By the eightieth uncalled-for death (usually always a man, since Kiernan has issues with killing women), it got to be a bit much. For a book that has no war in it, it certainly has enough deaths for one.
Additionally, I don't like Razi. I know I'm the only one, but he's grumpy 99% of the time and he's often very cold an aloof and his actions counteract his supposed traits. He's supposed to be selfless, but he's actually really selfish and childish most of the time. He puts his own hardships above everyone else's and doesn't even realize it and no one else realizes it, but sure. Sometimes the characters feel almost too real, and I literally feel their emotions and become extremely stressed whenever one of them is upset, which is on every page, of course. The characters and the setting. And, for an epic fantasy, it's far from boring. Usually with these types of books, you have to slog through three-hundred pages of boring descriptions, so thank God for none of that.
Despite this, the characters are so real that I can't help being entranced by them, even if most of them piss me the hell off.
As for Wynter...girls who cry for sympathy get under my skin. (less)
This could have been a five star book. I'll start with the bad and then move to the good. There isn't much bad anyway.
1. Wynter. I do like her, but a...moreThis could have been a five star book. I'll start with the bad and then move to the good. There isn't much bad anyway.
1. Wynter. I do like her, but a few things annoyed me. I didn't mind that she started off arrogant and cold/calculating, because it was fun to watch her grow, however, two things bother me about her. The first is that she is homophobic and basically comes right out and says she might not love her brother if he were gay. That made me icky toward her--I don't care about the time period or how she grew up. Secondly, at one point she actually FORGETS that one of her friends is being held in the dungeon at night, possibly being tortured. Who would freaking forget something like that?
2. I like Lorcan, Wynter's father, but I feel there was way too much of him. He's in 99.99% of the scenes and sometimes I felt like everything in the book was revolving around him. That's not to say I didn't feel sorry for him, though. Also, not enough Christopher. I know, I know. Wynter is the main character. But come on. SEVEN Christopher-less chapters. No. Nope. I'm not having it.
ONTO THE GOOD.
I like the world. It's unique and eerie and just really cool. I haven't read anything quite like it before. It's magical.
And the characters. They're all very unique and full and real and have so many hidden layers.
I could have killed Razi on a number of occassions for being a complete a-hole, and yet I still like him and feel so much sympathy for him. Should I kick him or hug him? Yeahhh.
As for Chritopher. OhGod. He begins as a character who seems like a stereotype, but that's because Wynter immediately begins judging him and putting him into categories and thinking she knows his every secret. Now, I loved him from the moment he stepped on the scene, but the more I got to know him, the more I wanted to steal him for myself. He's just so. Freaking. Sweet. He has no right to be so honorable and kind and funny and caring and loving and smart and AHHH. I almost want to eat him. Except no. He needs to be my husband. Anyone have magic powers to pull characters out of books, huh, huh? The scene where he's telling the story to a little boy in the palace. Holy God. WHY? He kills me. And the way he says 'afeared' or 'mortal feared.' So freaking cute.
Okay, okay. Moving on. I cried quite a few times reading this, mostly in relation to Christopher, but also about the terrible things that happened to some of the ghosts. I won't say what it is, but I didn't even know OR like one of the ghosts, but I felt so damn bad for him and was bawling my eyes out. That is how you write, people. You make your readers feel things other than annoyance.
This scene ensues when a little 'spit boy' asks my darling Christopher how he lost his two middle fingers.
"They were eaten by a bear," whispered Christopher, with such easy conviction that for a moment Wynter believed him, though the story was patently ridiculous.
The child's eyes showed silver under his lashes again and he peered at Christopher across a huge chasm of sleep, not sure if he believed him. Christopher breathed another soft laugh. "I was fishing for flies..." he said confidentially.
"Aye." Christopher's thumb kept up its easy stroking of the little forehead. "Ain't you never fished for flies?" The child shook his head, his eyes closing despite his best efforts. "Huh," said Christopher, "how do you feed your frogs then?"
Christopher straightened and then chuckled as the sleepy little voice said, "Don't got me no frogs."
Christopher bent forward again, murmuring low so that Razi and Wynter had to strain to hear. The fire shot blue and lilac highlights through his curtain of black hair and outlined his chin in gold as he said, "Oh, you must get some frogs, lad. They are excellent good companions."
"How you fish for flies?" the boy mumbled.
"Well..." Christopher's scarred hand lay on the side of the small head. "You just dip your fingers in honey and wait. "'Course, I fell asleep, didn't I? And when I woke up, that bloody bear was making off with my fingers. I chased him, of course, and he dropped all but the two that are missing. And your good Lord Razi, he sewed the others back on for me, because he is a great doctor, and a most excellent man."
"You know what the worst part was, mouse?"
"Those two fingers had all my best rings on them. Now, whenever I see a bear I follow him home to see if he's shat out my jewels."
The child squeaked out a little laugh of delighted revulsion. "Ew! You roots in bear poop!"
"Silly boy," tutted Christopher, "I use a stick."
Oh how I love this boy book.
Christopher (With short hair and modern clothes, of course ;)
I love this book! From the very first page I was reeled in. I just love this type of storyline. One half of the couple believes the other half to be a...moreI love this book! From the very first page I was reeled in. I just love this type of storyline. One half of the couple believes the other half to be a heartless asshole, and then he/she learns that that's the opposite.
I've read some people who think Alec is weak, but I disagree wholeheartedly. I didn't find him at all weak. I found him strong. He had a hard life, and after his dad died, he was still a kid and got taaken advantage of by his asshole of an agent. When Jordan came into his life, he learned to stand up for himself more, which was great to see.
I just love Alec. He's so unbelievably adorable and I just wanted to grab him in hug! Jordan was a great match for him, despite the age difference, and I love how Jordan's personality changed when he was with Alec.
There were also great supporting characters, like Jordan's sister, Bec, and the reporter, Taylor. It was great to read about a reporter that was actually a really good person.
I will admit this book went on too long and became a little too sickeningly sweet.(less)
That about sums up my reaction to him. He is offically my favorite romance hero of all time. He is funny, caring, warm,...moreAll right.
That about sums up my reaction to him. He is offically my favorite romance hero of all time. He is funny, caring, warm, hard-working, sexy as hell, loving, and on top of that, he's described as not being handsome, which made me very happy. Yeah, that sounds weird, but it's true. His interactions with Hero were swoon-worthy. Also, he's such a sweetie to his mother, which is adorable. On top of this he works his beautiful butt off to support his family while his ass of a brother sits on his ass, complaining and being all pompous and narrow minded and stodgy and boring. I just love Griffin, love the way he fell for Hero so fast and wanted her and only her, but most of all I just love him. I will not abide ANYONE saying a bad word about my baby.
Hero. For once, I found the heroine likable and not annoying!
Toward the beginning, she was a tad stiff, but it was nice to see her come out of her shell with Griffin's help. Griffin definitely unlocked her inner passion. Before she fell for Griffin, she was very obedient and prim, but he changed everything, and I'd like to think he brought out the real "Hero." Despite her denials, I KNEW she loved Griffin, because it was so clear in her actions and in her thoughts. Notice how everything I like about Hero relates back to Griffin??
Thomas. Thomas the Ass. Or Thomas of Asslandia. Ugh. This man disgusts me. He spent years and years treating his brother like crappio, all because his dumb-bitch wife said Griffin had seduced her. Of course, the Ass automatically believes her, because, you know, there's no such thing as lying, and refuses to believe Griffin. Even yearssss later, he says to someone, "I refused to give him the satisfaction of believing him." Okay, so he refuses to believe Griffin because it would satisfy Griffin? Are you kidding me? Is that a joke? He's the suckiest brother ever, and hates Griff because he's jealous of him. His type annoys me. I'm onto him and his ilk. I. AM. ON. TO. HIM! Now, don't confuse the Ass with asses. This is an ass.
This is a nice, sweet ass who deserves love and kindness. Now this is THE Ass.
It's too bad he gets to be happy in the end. *pouts*
Also, this is how I picture Maximus the Gorilla of Jerklandia.
The Gorilla threatened my Griffy-Poo, and this was me when he did:
Yep. That was me.
I liked quite a few of the side characters, too. Phoebe, Hero's sister, and Megs, Griffin's sister. I'm still wondering if we'll see more of The Makepiece siblings. I liked Winter better in this book than the last. And I still want to know who the Ghost of St. Giles is.
I still like Silence, and, as I did in the previous book, I feel very, very sorry for her, and I'm looking forward to her book.
Ohhh, the chemistry between Hero and Griffin was electric. As Griffin said, they are like bread and butter: they go together so, so well. And their love-making was...hot. There were quite a few of lervin' scenes, but not too many (I know, I know, but I don't like when there's a sex scene on every page), and I enjoyed them all because, well, Griffy-Poo was invloved, so... Additionally, their love was so potent, so obvious, that it jumped off the pages, and when I was not reading this book, I counted down the minutes till I could read it again. I thought about the characters even when not reading, and they also felt like real characters--people I'd actually want to know.
There's just something about this series. It's haunting, beautiful, ugly, awful, wonderful, dark, gritty, funny, and not at all cliche. I wasn't once bored while reading it, and that's rare for me. I am VERY PICKY, as I point out all the time, but this book...it just really did it for me. The writing style sucks me in for some reason.
I LOVED the end of this book. Thomas did not redeem himself in my eyes, because he's the Ass and is mean to Griffy-Poo. However, Griffin is happy and in love and Hero is very worthy of him, so I'm happy. Squeee! Although, I just want to say that I wish things could have worked out better between Thomas and Griffin, because I spent the whole book waiting for them to sort of make-up. *sad face*
Oh, and there was only ONE mention of a single "buck" in this book, so props to Elizabeth Hoyt for that.
All I have to say is Adrian better be in this series, and he better find someone to l...more118 days, 30 hours, and counting...
IT HAS A COVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I have to say is Adrian better be in this series, and he better find someone to love him, or else I'm going to have to jump into the book and make him mine.
Update: According to Mead's blog:
Bloodlines is the spin-off series to Vampire Academy (it's the name of the first book and of the series). It's set in the VA world but will be about different characters: Sydney (our narrator), Jill, Eddie, and one of the love interests from VA. I'm not saying who that last guy is, but it's mostly to protect those who haven't read Last Sacrifice. If you have read it, then it should be pretty obvious who the other character is.
So, clearly, this means it is 100% confirmed that Adrian is in it, so YAY!!! Thank you!!! Also, it sounds to me like it will be in first-person, so I'm not sure why it says otherwise on here, but we shall see!
Four stars because it's THIS series, but if it were another series...it would get three stars, max.
1. Eden is an immature, stupid, impulsive child. I...moreFour stars because it's THIS series, but if it were another series...it would get three stars, max.
1. Eden is an immature, stupid, impulsive child. I expected her to mature in this book. I expected her to beg for Izzy's forgiveness. Instead, Brockmann throws in a bunch of excuses that supposedly let her off the hook. And, Izzy does SO MUCH apologizing to Eden!!! Over and over he has to apologize to her! She does completely stupid things and then he has to apologize to her for calling her on it. Any time she doesn't get her way, she runs away, often into danger. Izzy deserves better. All she has to do is cry (which happens in pretty much every scene)--AND, Brockmann constantly tells us that Eden is "stoic" and hides her emotions.--um, in what world are you living!?!?!?!! This "woman" bursts into tears every five minutes and then runs away, slamming doors like a toddler.
2. Ben. He was fine at first, but then he started acting all self-righteous, bossing people around and telling them how to live their lives. One of my biggest pet-peeves is when a side character butts into the business of the two MCs, telling them how to act, and it's even worse when it's a freaking KID telling them! What right does he have??? AND THEN, there's the thing he does toward the end: (view spoiler)[Goes out to get himself kidnapped! The idiot! HE KNEW baddies were after him. (hide spoiler)]
3. The cliches. In 99.99% of romance novels, at least one character threatens the life of the hero - "I'll kill you if you hurt her" etc... Why does that have to be in EVERY book? I find myself waiting for it to happen. Is it in some rule-book?
HOW TO WRITE A ROMANCE NOVEL 101
Step 1. Make the heroine a whiny, I-turn-independence-into-bullheaded-idiocy, immature b**ch.
Step 2. Have at LEAST one character threaten to murder the hero for no reason whatsoever.
Step 3. Throw in a stupid kid who acts more like an adult than the heroine, then have him boss the MCs around, telling them how to live their lives (since we all know 15-year-olds know EVERYTHING about relationships and totally have the right to tell adults what to do, since they clearly are smarter).
Step 4. Remember that heroine? Yeah, make sure she bursts into tears in EVERY SCENE! You can't have a strong heroine unless she also has a vulnerable side, aka she tends to act like a 10-year-old. Also, be certain that the heroine's tantrums lead to the hero begging for her forgiveness, even though he's done nothing wrong.
Step 5. If you're going to have two couples, this is what you should do: Make ONE of the men likable, and ONE of the women likable. You CANNOT have more than TWO likable characters. This is important. You don't want your readers to like or relate to the characters.
Step 6. The UNLIKABLE hero, aka Hero #2. Make sure he's an a-hole up until the VERY LAST PAGE. Have him hold onto irrational anger and hatred for no reason. He needs to INSULT his heroine, too, and make her feel insecure. Also, he absolutely HAS to hate the other hero and heroine for no reason. Preferably, have him call the other heroine a whore or slut throughout the book.
Step 7. Let the "other" heroine get her revenge on Hero #2. What you want to do is set it up so she thinks Hero #2 is physically abusive, and have her accuse him of this to his face for extra drama - be sure the whole situation is unrealistic. For example, set the scene up like this:
Hero #2 is attempting to push his heroine out of his path, but then somehow he accidentally punches her in the face. Now, we know that her shoulders are not on the same level with her face, so we also know this is borderline impossible. Perfect! I know I grab someone's shoulders with clenched fists! All the better to GRIP onto said shoulders!
Step 8. Continue the theme of Heroine #1 throwing pity parties for herself, and have this lead to the hero apologizing to her some more. Now, this is very important, so read carefully: It is ESSENTIAL that the heroine come off as ridiculous, self-pitying, immature, whiny, stupid, and ungrateful. AND construct it so your readers are on the hero's side, but then have him grovel anyway. Why? Readers LOVE when books make them so mad they want to rip out their own hair. In addition, have the heroine say something like "You are not allowed to look at me anymore" while screaming at the top of her lungs in one of her tantrums, but ALSO have her boss the hero around to make her a hypocrite, 'cause who doesn't love a hypocrite? AND, have her say "I hate you" to her hero over and over, like a little kid. Remember, make her A TOTAL witch. Have her cry while she's being a witch so no one can get mad at her for said witchiness.
Step 9. Throw in an irrelevent subplot just because you can, and also to add more drama and force the book to be bulkier. Have the subplot be really, really annoying, and have it go nowhere until the VERY end. Make sure each time you switch to the subplot, you essentially write the same scene over and over. For example:
Create a little illegal immigrant girl. Have her evading baddies. Every time she's on the scene, make sure she's either A. running away from baddies, B. running away from the good guys, or C. spying on the baddies. Try to make all the scenes feel the same, and make the girl have the same exact thoughts during every scene, too, because readers like to be bored and annoyed at the same time.
Step 10. Sprinkle in little things here or there that are sure to annoy your reader. Have your likable hero portrayed as the bad guy and your unlikable heroine as the good guy. Have your likable heroine forgive your unlikable hero for everything he does after he says "sorry." Don't have him elaborate.
Step 11. Your unlikable heroine must also be REALLY FULL of herself. She must constantly think about how beautiful she is. Have her dwell on how she can never get a job, because no matter where she works, guys will be pawing her. Have her say the only two places to work are McDonalds or a strip club. No other stores exist. Now, we all know pretty women go to work all the time without getting pawed and having hands stuffed up their shirts, but that doesn't matter because we want this to make no sense. We want readers to be thinking: Well, I'm considered pretty...why don't I have this problem? Or, I know someone gorgeous, why not them? WELL, because NO ONE is as beautiful as EDEN! DUH!
Step 13. Give the unlikable heroine a long, drawn-out, extremely ridiculous sob-story so all the characters will think she's awesome! As a bonus, have every single male character in the book, save for Hero #2 and his little gay brother, be a pervert who forces the heroine (view spoiler)[into some type of sexual situation. (hide spoiler)] Have these sexual situations be unavoidable and make her be seen as a hero.
Step 13. In the end, have your unlikables both be just as unlikable as they were at the start. Maybe give them a few moments of nice, smart, kindness, but then forget it! They're back to being jerks.
Step 14. Have this book be the last in the series (for now, at least) so that people will already like the series, and won't be able to give it a low rating, since, well, THEY LOVE YOU!
Love Izzy and Jenn. Hate Dan and Eden. I did enjoy the book because I love this series and like I said, Izzy and Jenn. Dan had a few redeemable moments, while Eden had maybe one, but all the same it WAS interesting, and there were moments I really enjoyed. Plus, Izzy is hilarious. It so completely annoyed me, though, hence my 101. That being said Brockmann's talent is in creating unique, stand-out characters, whether they're annoying or not. I've NEVER read about characters like ANY of the ones in this book--or this series, for that matter, so three stars for that alone, really, and one more for Izzy. No doubt she's an amazing author and I'll pick up anything she writes in the future. Oh, and despite what I said about the subplot, I do love Nisha. I want to adopt her haha.
I really don't mean this review to be totally negative. It really isn't a bad book. ["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>(less)
Like I give a shit what Jocelyn is wearing. Or about Jocelyn at all. The woman is annoying as hell and needs to either go back into a coma, or just di...moreLike I give a shit what Jocelyn is wearing. Or about Jocelyn at all. The woman is annoying as hell and needs to either go back into a coma, or just die a painful death. After (view spoiler)[ Clary murders Jace (hide spoiler)], Jocelyn hops over and tells her to, and I quote: (view spoiler)["Let him go." Um. Are you kidding me? Let him go? After about twenty seconds? After Clary just killed him? (hide spoiler)] Ohhh, kay, Jossy, sure. You're a damned idiot, and I hate your type. You're like Sophie, making good people (that you don't even know) out to be villains of your past with no proof whatsoever other than her own idiocy.
Clary isn't much better. She has two modes: thoughtless badass and thoughtless weakling. Neither is appealing. She's just missing something as a character, and comes off as cold and hard.
I was pissed about Jace's mind-control gunk this whole book. Boring. I like Simon a lot. Isabelle more than usual. Alec, despite his TSTL moments. Magnus, just because. Jordan because of a certain pair of boxers. Maia is even growing on me because at least she's warmer than Clary and doesn't act all fluttery and up herself. Also, Clary is a sucky friend. Simon goes out of his way to help her every second, and when does she ever do that for him? She never can bother to ask how he's doing.
Most of the scenes just seemed so...pointless. It was like reading mostly filler.
I'm finding this a little disturbing, but I don't even like Jace that much anymore. He's way too whipped. He's not a man anymore. He's just...the person who loves Clary, spouting cheesy love lines that make me roll my eyes. Even when he was being "arrogant," it seemed more like he was just saying that stuff out of habit, when really he just wanted to gush about Clary and get all gooey and icky.
Also, Sebastian. There was just way too much of him. There were more scenes of Sebby/Clary than Clary/Jace...and they basically had more freaking action, too, which is just...wrong.
I'll read the next one to see what happens, but...my excitement is gone. As for Brother Z...people think he's Will or Jem, but I have another guess (someone not from ID). Anyway, that would be sick if it was one of them. No really. That would like, scar me for life. *shudders*["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>["br"]>(less)
So, I'm not even sure what I really liked about this book. I think, in a way, it was boring, but somehow...not...at the same time. Okay, nothing reall...moreSo, I'm not even sure what I really liked about this book. I think, in a way, it was boring, but somehow...not...at the same time. Okay, nothing really happened in this book, but it was hard to notice with such interesting and unique and REAL characters. I loved that, for once, it was the woman with the cool temper. Brianna was great that way. Yes, at times it was a bit annoying and you just wanted to shake her, but she stayed true to her character, and it was a breath of fresh air to have a heroine who isn't screaming at the hero every chance she gets.
Now, onto Gray. So, I don't even really like him at all, and yet he was so interesting and so damn sexy, I loved reading about him. He was weird, gruff, angry, rude, mean, moody, dark, and even kind of scary. But that's what made him feel so real. When he was writing, he wouldn't even allow Brianna in his room and he'd sometimes go days without eating and I just found that so...I don't know...I can't put it into words, but I liked it.
It was nice to have Maggie and her husband, Rogan, in this one, too. I really like Rogan, and he was a great calm, non-interfering balance to Maggie, who is basically a crazy fiery lady that's always mad about something for some made-up reason or another.
Anyway, I read Nora Roberts for her characters. I don't always LIKE the characters, but they're always so amazingly interesting that I forget their not real. The characters, the humor, and the great dialogue, even when the heroine is being obtuse and annoying!(less)