There's too much Dick on this list! (gross pun intended)

Ah sorry, I'm a phillip K. Dick fan or a "dickhead" if you will.

Slightly concerned about the appearance of Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. I personally never thought of it as being proper sci-fi. Sci-fi usually seems to be about writers exploring the consequences of ideas that interest them. Adams was never really interested in the consequences of his ideas. He just threw them in for comic effect. Sure it's sci-fi but it's not really in the same spirit as real sci-fi.

Well, it is a parody of science fiction, much like Blazing Saddles is a parody of western movies, and it was important in so far that afterward, science fiction writers and readers probably had to come to science fiction differently, now that all its cliches were lampooned and made evident.

Hitchhiker's is one of the most popular series of sci-fi novels there is. Excluding it from the list just seems silly. It would be like excluding Dune because of its numerous fantasy tropes.

i still think dune is more like SF than Hitchhikers. Dune may have similarities to the fantasy genre, but the logic that drives the scenarios and situations is still the same logic that runs through the veins of nearly every book in this list except for hitchhikers.
I'm not suggesting excluding it anyway, just tht i think it's a bit overrated and its not really proper SF.

Fair enough, since I feel the same way about Slaughterhouse-Five.

Yeah, slaughterhouse 5 isn't really proper sci fi either, Youre right.

For the "Golden Age" list:
George O Smith ... "Highways in Hiding"
Edward E. Smith, PhD ... "Lensman and Skylark" Series
A. E. Van Vogt ... "Weapon Shops of Isher", etc.

More when my memory returns.

Kornbluth

The problem with something like this is that it starts with a pre-determined multiple choice. It would be better if each person could add their favorites.

One of my all time favorite SF novels is not on the list: A Mote in God's Eye

It is easy for anyone to add their favorites if they are not already on there - just use the "find/add books to list" bar over at the right side of the page.

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ? Isnt even near PKD best and its ranked 2 must be cause of a certain film....


I added Jack Vance(Emphyrio,The Demon Princes,Araminta Station) Heinlein(Rocket ship Galileo),Theodore Sturgeon(The Dreaming Jewels), CJ Cherryh(Kesrith),Zelazny(This Immortal),PKD(Now Wait For Last Year), Pohl(Man Plus)

I voted The Hitchhiker in my top 18 cause it might not be alltime great top 5,10 but its an important SF cause in that it combines humor and SF in a great combo.

Mohammed wrote: "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ? Isnt even near PKD best and its ranked 2 must be cause of a certain film....


I added Jack Vance(Emphyrio,The Demon Princes,Araminta Station) Heinlein(Rocket ..."

It goes without saying that the more popular scifis will make it to the top of this list, regardless of how good people think it is. Thats just a defect in the listopia programming in that it vastly favours number of votes over quality of votes, so these lists just become popularity contests about which books have been read by the most people. Most heinlien afficionados wouldnt consider stranger in a strange land to be his best work, its just that lots of people have read it because of its coutercultural significance. So yeah, things like blade runner get pushed higher than they deserve but thats just the way it works. Anyway, i think its still a good book and this is still becoming a very good list. Thanks to everyone who's voted so far!

Incidentally its interesting to note the influence that cinema has had on this list. by my count, 11 of the top 20 films have been adapted for the big screen whilst hardly any of the books below 20 have.

I think its the other way SF great books or even just good books had big influence on cinema. Where would all the fans of Blade runner be without a mid level PKD called Androids Dream ?


Also Dune hasnt had a good film or series to give it extra votes.

true, but i still think i robot, a clockwork orange, 2001, i am legend and electric sheep wouldnt be in the positions they currently are in this list were it not for the popularising effect of their numerous adaptations.

I heard ridley scott is planning an adaptation of the forever war. Expect that book to leap into the top 10 in a couple years time.

by the way folks, i made this list because the other SF lists were either too limited in scope (hugo award winners, cyberpunk) or too vague and so lost credibility with all the populist and YA books that filled the list (main SF list). The intention for this list was to make an SF list with limitations that would allow credible, less well known books to sit more comfortably at the top. There currently exists no such list for fantasy. Can anyone think of any similar kind of limitations that would lead to a good list like this but for fantasy novels? or are there not even enough good fantasy books out there to justify such a list?

Actually there are a couple such lists for fantasy:
Pre-Tolkien Fantasy (Fantasy up through 1937)
Classic Fantasy (Fantasy written before 1980)
Best Fantasy of the 70s
Best Fantasy of the 80s
Best Fantasy of the 90s
Best Fantasy Books of the 21st Century

The intention is to get away from the populist stuff that fills most lists and set up parameters that will result in more elitist stuff. Those decade lists are halfway towards what im thinking about, the fantasy masterworks list is probably the closest to what im thinking about but is perhaps too limiting in its scope. The other lists you mention are all pretty similar to the general populist lists out there.

I mean, i dont really know anything about fantasy. I just think this is a very cool SF list we have here, relatively free from the usual YA and mainstream stuff and i just think it would be nice if there were a similar one for fantasy though i dont really know how one would do the same sort of list for fantasy.

Are you including collections of short stories?

Sarah Pi wrote: "Are you including collections of short stories?"

Sure, i dont see why not. We already have the martian chronicles at #3.

I'm not sure what you mean by this list being free from "mainstream stuff" Killthepopular. Asimov, Bradbury, and Clarke are so mainstream that they are referred to as the ABCs of sci-fi.

If what you are looking for a list of more cerebral/philosophical/highbrow/elitist fantasy, I could make one.

Here you go:
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2448....

Greyweather wrote: "Here you go:
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2448.Highbrow_Fantasy_Books"

Hah, an interesting premise for a list.
The problem is, I've read 2 fantasy novels ive really liked, and whilst they were great and well written i dunno if i'd necessarily call them highbrow. This is why it's problematic creating a premise for these lists. You want something that'll make the right sort of people vote for the right sort of books (sorry if this sounds a little patrician). You want fantasy nerds voting for fantasy classics, to give an idea of what the great (possibly obscure) works of this genre are. Otherwise you get kids voting for harry potter and "normals" voting for mainstream versions of fantasy like magical realism and kafka. This is the kind of list that needs to be avoided as it doesnt really tell anyone anything they dont already know.
Although your premise might create an interesting, if not a very "fantasy" driven list.

As a rule, the best lists on goodreads seem to come from very specific and restrictive (but not too restrictive) parameters. For example, best books of the 20th century, is definitely a better list than "best books ever" hijacked as it is by vampires and mormons, whilst the decade lists are of an even more consistent quality, but often lack enough books, or voter interest, to make a strong list.
Your list is probably a bit too vague to target the specific fantasy area i'm thinking of (i.e. same sort of books as this list but for fantasy, not bulgakov, lewis carroll etc.). I'd just like a list to point out all the great fantasy classics I'm unaware of. This list has pointed me towards some of the classic SFs out there. Is it impossible to have a similar style list for fantasy?

Regarding the ABCs, whilst they are established classic authors they arent necessarily hugely mainstream. Books like the martian chronicles and rendezvous with rama are dwarved ratings-wise by books like 1984, brave new world, a wrinkle in time, the giver etc.

This list isnt dominated by hugely obscure works or anything but its a hell of a lot less "mainstream" that the main SF list.

Well one man's classic is another man's claptrap, and fantasy doesn't have a "golden age" in the way sci-fi does, so a list exactly like this one isn't going to be possible with the listopea structure.

For what you seem to want, the Fantasy Masterworks series you noticed earlier does look to be the best fit.

Incidentally:

Martin Prince: As your president, I would demand a science-fiction library, featuring an ABC of the genre. Asimov, Bester, Clarke.
Student: What about Ray Bradbury?
Martin Prince: I'm aware of his work...

oms en serie is the book that the movie "fantastic planet" is based on. it was originally published in france in 1957.