Yay!

Hey, this is a really, really great list idea and I love the votes so far. Some of them are for books that are most definitely *not* YA, however (for example, Kushiel's Dart does have a kick-ass female protag, but she's a sexual submissive who sleeps her way through the more sexually perverse ends of the her kingdom, in sometimes-explicit scenes, to spy on nobles).

Any librarian can remove them, but it seems worth discussing first. Any opinions?

The ones I'd recommend removing as of 20080810:

- Kushiel's, for the above-mentioned reasons. Not shelved as YA and many/most readers/parents/librarians wouldn't want it to be.

- Mists of Avalon. Great book and protag, but not shelved as YA anywhere. Might be acceptable, though, since the content is within the YA range for today's students (one slightly explicit sex scene, but that's all that comes to mind as possibly objectionable).

- Weetzie Bat. Okay, I'd love for this one to stay (it's a favorite), but it isn't fantasy.

- Poison Study. Nothing from Luna (the original publisher) is intended for YA--it's Harlequin's fantasy imprint. I would certainly give this to a tween to read*, but I wouldn't call it YA. (It's a great book, though)

- Equal Rites. Not necessarily worth removing, since he didn't have a YA line going at the time, but it's part of the main (not-YA) Discworld series, not the newer YA spin-offs (Maurice and his educated rodents and the Tiffany Aching books)

There are idiots out there who would take a book's presence on a list like that as evidence that it's appropriate for some particular reader, and I'd hate to put the kid through dealing with their adult when they discover what was in the book. I'd love them to read these books, but not to get in trouble over it.


* I'm hard-pressed to think of what I wouldn't give a tween to read, so maybe I'm not the best judge of that side of things.

Okay, I'm going to remove Kushiel's Dart.

It was place #29 and had 4 votes:
T ranked it 3/5 with the comment: phedre!
Otto ranked it 4/6
Willa ranked it 3/4
Laura ranked it 2/4 with the comment: I just wouldn't put this in the "children's" category...

Again, I'm yanking it because the list specifically says YA and while there are books on the list that are not marketed or shelved as YA, Kushiel's isn't even close. It's a good book and the heroine is certainly kick-ass, but generally she's kick-ass by having her ass kicked during an explicit S&M sex scene.

I would hate for someone to be surprised after assuming a book being on this list is YA-appropriate. Well, actually, I'd love them to be surprised by that because they shouldn't be handing their YA-age kids books they haven't looked at, but getting Goodreads involved is not cool.

I'm not quite sure how Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle qualifies. I mean, I love the books, but kick-ass is NOT how I would describe her, exactly.

It has to be 12-year old Makenna Gold. The Virago!

I added Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle to my list when I saw her here. "Kick-ass" can mean a lot of things, so I decided that--for her at least--it means uncompromising, unstoppable, clever, caring, and an altogether excellent role model for a young girl (or boy) who won't grow up accepting that things have to be bad.

Kinda makes me want to play a game of cleaning-the-house or something.

I think it's worth noting that Poison Study by Maria V. Snyder will be released as a YA title, along with one of its sequels, Magic Study, this Nov/Dec. I don't think I'd recommend it to anyone younger than 15 as there is some explicit violence. I think YA is appropriate, and I love the main character--she's inspirational for those of us who have suffered abuse and refused to let it defeat us.

Any of the Discworld books are appropriate for a YA audience if they are willing to read them. My two sons are age 7 and 10 and listen to the audiobook versions on road trips. They love them and ask to listen to them over and over.

What? None of my Catriona books from the Dragonlance YA line? Guess I need a better publicist -- or Cat does. ;-)

Oh, and some of you might be surprised what my wife the librarian shelves as YA and Children's books (including the entire Lord of the Rings - Go Eowyn!). Times have changes, and kids books have gotten "older."

Keep the lists going. (Though there are almost too many choices on 'em.)

After Making this list it is clear that I should have a name with a double letter.

Jane Austen probably shouldn't be on this list, given that she didn't write fantasy!

Wow i really needed this list haha!!! Tamora pierce and trudi canavan are great!

Well, I like a Wrinkle In Time. I have read it at least 15 times, and it never gets old! I love Mrs. Whatsit!!!

Seth wrote: "Okay, I'm going to remove Kushiel's Dart.

It was place #29 and had 4 votes:
T ranked it 3/5 with the comment: phedre!
Otto ranked it 4/6
Willa ranked it 3/4
Laura ranked it 2/4 with ..."

I think it's a good call to yank. I love the author and think the series is phenomenal, but YA it's not!

Call me a wedge@ss, but most of the books on page 3, albeit featuring phenomenal female heroes, are adult books, not YA. There are so many great YAs out there with female heroes--it would be nice to see them get a fair share of recognition!

And thanks, everyone who put ALANNA at the top of the list (for today, at least)! You've made my day!

Wizard's First Rule is not a YA. I see it listed near rank 8. There are some pretty heavy torture scenes in that.

I don't know if they rate as fantasy or not, but I'm extremely surprised the Maximum Ride books aren't on here (at least, not that I saw through my skim)

Twilight should not be on this list. The only strong female characters in that book were the vampires, and they played very small roles in the book!

^ I agree with that statement: Bella is anything but kickass.

I say add in Candy Quackenbush from the Abarat series by Clive Barker!!! She's awesome! Probably my favorite female character ever.

Why is Lyra of His Dark Materials at the top? She just lets Will do all the work.

this is an AWESOME list. Not just awesome because it claims to be a list of best women protags, but because it pretty much actually is. unlike a lot of goodreads lists. and check out all that fantasy!

Wow, I was surpised to find that I've read close to half these books and they're all great choices.

Adding my voice to the chorus that the Twilight books should not be on the list. The books (rightly or wrongly) are popular, they are fantasy but they surely dont qualify as featuring "kick-ass female characters".

what about valkykrie cain or Tanith low they both kickass in skulduggery pleasant

There are some really good books on this list. I'd like to suggest The Order of Odd-Fish.