Cosmic Sher's comments (member since Feb 18, 2009)

Cosmic Sher's comments from the Joseph Campbell discussion group group.

Not a gentle whack, just a "this is from my perspective", which is the whole point is it not?
Sorry for the book up there... I tend to get a bit loquacious when I'm ranting about everything in my head.

I do think we all need different sources of guidance, different meaning that we alone can tap into, and that is precisely why I think it all comes down to simple belief and where you put your focus in life. It has to be a unique thing to you. I just get jazzed about hearing other people's paths and what they've discovered that I haven't (yet?).

Thanks for putting up with me when my water-spout gets turned on. ;)

You know Doug, I think I would completely enjoy sitting down with you over good coffee and talking about just these things. I can't promise that I can keep up with some of what you seem fluent in - knowledge - but I love talking with people who have different viewpoints than mine. When I get challenged my head usually spins a bit and then I want to explain everything that's been going on in my head for the last 25 years.

I completely thought The Secret was a laugh. It was so transparent and focused on very materialistic things. But, it was a beginning to help people understand the basic principles of listening to your own heartfelt desires and helping to create the world you wish to inhabit. It's sort of like Sunday school teaching the Bible stories. I went through all that, combining the knowledge that I did learn from them (or possible truths), to find other authors & authorities & just people who had read about and had some kind of understanding of the things I search for.

I can't say why so many people are looking in this direction, except to say that many are looking away from the typical religious belief. They dont' have faith in it anymore, so they look elsewhere. These people believe in something, they know that a spiritual realm exists (in their reality, at least), and they want to connect with it. These kinds of ideas fascinate me and have for a long time. But you have to go through a few bad apples first... right?

For me these kinds of ideas have put huge puzzle pieces together that I've been on a life-long search for. They answer questions that no religion or belief system has ever answered for me about myself... but I have to say that I take the ideas that jump out when I read and I meld them together with other pieces that may not seem to fit. Like Fractals (what I understand of them) and Miracles and Magic, I see them all as explaining the same consistent ideas throughout history, cultures and beliefs systems. So I don't necessarily think that the New Agers have it all. I just really like some of their ideas, and it helps me build my own. I don't treat them like Bibles, although I would treat the Bible as the same type of book. Find its stories and ideas and see which ones speak to me, then figure out how they fit in with the rest.

The reason so much of this sounds like prayer is that it is. If you take away the factor of who we are praying to, and we're still all praying. (Even if that just means we have hope, belief or will to make it through) We're still all focusing our energies on something good to happen. And I believe that if you're not, then you should be. In whatever way that connects & is Truth to you, at least try to find the good possibilities of the future, however you would like to see them. The details may be different for each, but those fall into place once the momentum gets going from the energy building up from behind. It's all part of a fractal cycle from chaos to order, and we're pushing through it right now.

See... you ask for it, you got it! ;)

It is sad, but it must be a bit of a relief knowing she isn't suffering in her physical body anymore.
I wish you peace and joy in remembering the goodness of her spirit.

Okay Leslie... you need to check out Gregg Braden, if you are interested at all in this stuff. Not everyone is cause it is a little out there. But I love his point of view because it reminds me of good ol' Jo Campbell - look at all the different beliefs and see what connects them all, including science. His background is in aerospace & physics but he's delved deeply into spiritual theologies including Judaism, Buddhism, and the Gnostic Gospels.

Many of his books (and authors that are similar) talk about the interconnectedness of everything, how to heal your mind & body, and how we all have the Divine within which allows us to learn how to focus our intent in order to change our world.

His latest book is Fractal Time The Secret of 2012 and a New World Age, which I haven't read yet.

But my favorite books of his are:
Secrets of the Lost Mode of Prayer The Hidden Power of Beauty, Blessings, Wisdom, and Hurt
The Divine Matrix Bridging Time, Space, Miracles, and Belief
The Spontaneous Healing of Belief Shattering the Paradigm of False Limits
(Which is similar to Divine Matrix, but talks more about healing physcially & emotionally)

See? Now you just geeked me out.

LOL Maybe I'll have to start a new thread.

QP is Quantum Physics... the study & science of the microcosm: atoms, particles, energy. (Einstein-y stuff)

And fractals are intertwined with QP, in that everything in nature is fractal. It will exist as a pattern no matter how small or large. You see this in shells, trees, natural environments, cells within our bodies, even energy patterns. For me, if it has a fractal pattern chances are it is reflecting some kind of Universal Truth.

See, that's the cool thing about what they're finding out with quantum physics & brain chemistry & all that sciency stuff. It is all connected, all one and the same. If you can learn to focus & control how you react emotionally (not cut off feelings, but be more aware of them & where to focus them) then you can also affect your body & quite possibly your surroundings as well.

For me, the universal laws of nature and spirit and science all intertwine in a really cool dance. We just haven't figured it all out yet. ;)

(Don't get me started on this, I get all geeked out with QP & Fractals & consciousness)

I read an article recently (somewhere) that they did a brainwave reading on people while invoking emotions such as fear, anger, love & gratitude. What they discovered is that negative emotions, especially fear, evoke a certain chemistry in the brain, but when the individual concentrates on feeling a real gratitude and love, it releases a new set of chemistry that overrides the fear-based one.

Bottom line, if you feel fear (or related emotions) focus on what you are truly, truly grateful & loving about in your life and it helps to overcome the negative emotions. This has helped me enormously when I'm getting panicky about things I can't control. Usually I start with my daughter and try to immerse myself in the feelings of how incredible she is and how much I love her & how grateful I am for her in my lfe.

Give it try & let me know if it works for you. :)

LOL Not at all! This is some heavy stuff Leslie, but really cool too.

One of the really great things I've learned recently is that when your capacity to feel pain, sorrow, loss, etc is so big it feels insurmountable, it also means that your capacity to feel love, gratitude and joy are that big as well. If we cut ourselves off of our feelings, we're slighting ourselves. So, it's better to feel these things and deal with them head-on and work through the other side, then we can go on to find and feel the opposite in an even greater scope.

Good on ya girl! You definitely have some great courage going on right now & we're all waving our pom-poms around for ya. :)

Doug - "So, I must read everything I've written to you, and the quest is to find what I'm saying to myself."
Now that was the wisest thing I've heard in a looong time. Perfect!

I was thinking about therapy and how different it is for each individual, but also how it can take on predictable habits.

One scenario that I've seen often, (I trained as a councelor for a bit and grew up with a father as psychoanalyst) is one that I don't believe fits for you, Leslie, but I think it merits talking about.

I've noticed too many people who go into therapy (or whatever vehicle they choose) with the intention of recognizing what is wrong and working through it, but then they seem to identify so much with the victim side of it that they lose so much else of their selves. This happens often, it seems, with abuse victims who finally break free of the cycle by getting validation about how wronged & hurt they were, but can't seem to finally let it go once they've worked on it. It becomes their badge of honor, almost, and they are defiant if they see anyone 'ripping it away' from them. And then, they never seem to ever grow out of that into a healthy adult who has learned from their experiences to be a strength to themselves. They have to constantly focus on what happened to them, and all the negative emotions associated with it - anger, shame, sorrow, etc - without coming out the other side and actually finding out who they are NOW in a new and positive light.

Does all this make sense? I don't mean to be judgemental, it's just an observation I notice over & over. Again, Leslie, this does NOT sound like you. I just think it's something to be aware of ourselves when we've been through hell... to finally step through hell and back into this real world with something positive and even creative to work from.

The biggest thing my therapist helped me do was help me through a visual where I pictured all I went through sitting at the end of a giant rubberband, I then pulled it back with all of my strength and let it fly back into the past. It sounds silly, but it was exactly what I needed. And afterward I found that less and less each day I wasn't constantly obsessing about my 'victimization' but, instead, was actually able to start discovering what I had missed and who I had become... and who I could choose to become in the future. It was really perfect. I rarely even think about any of that stuff anymore, and if it comes rearing its head up I just pull out my big ol' rubberband again and send it flying with a vengence! LOL It feels great. :)

I realized that in some sense, my soul was pushing me (albeit kicking and screaming) into the next phase of my growth, and it was only by going through this experience that I could get there.

Linda, I think you really nailed it.

Leslie, I also had a similar experience when I finally let go of seeing my therapist, or any therapist for a long-term period of time. It was so frightening to be on my own, to have to rely on my own judgement of the world. I think when you go through traumatic events you learn that how you viewed the world was really not how it really was, it was unhealthy and usually like looking through a keyhole. Part of the theraputic process is learning how to see yourself and the world through new eyes, hopefully gaining a wisdom in your awareness that you didn't have previously.

I see this as a kind of right of passage. You've made such important strides within your self, and they have leaned heavily upon the teaching and support of your therapist to learn how to view the world differently, how to make different choices in your life, how to reframe the pain to hopefully gain strength from it. Now you have to take that leap into a world where you have to make all those observations and choices for yourself, relying on that inner strength. But this is a really good thing!

I actually went back to my therapist (from 15 years ago!)for one session this fall, because of some big stresses I was going through, and through the whole thing she just kept saying (firmly but gently), "Sherrie, you already know all this. You just have to move forward and do it." It was very eye opening and kind of freeing. I actually felt like I had information that I shared with her, through all my reading and self-exploration, that she had never heard and wanted more information about it to add to her practice.

It's your time to make that passage, and you can do it. You have more strength in you than you are remembering right now, and you absolutely can rely on yourself to take you to great new heights! :D

I agree. I really like your stream analogy.

My thought is that so much of it comes down to knowing yourself really well, and that sadly we don't teach our children how to do this. We (as a culture) teach them to follow others, rely on others beliefs, and to not question. When we don't know ourselves intimately, are too afraid of both our weaknesses and our strengths, and we don't know how to look deep inside to find our own truths, that is when we get lost and end up taking paths that aren't our own.

I also believe that we enter into situations that subconsciously are set up to help us overcome them and find the truth at the end, if we are strong enough to fight through them. It's not that I think we are solely to blame for the awful things in our lives, but that if we see it all as opportunities to learn the deeper meaning underneath and build the strength to get through them, then we find a wisdom and strength that we never could have known before.

Buddha and Gandhi used the same analogy.

"Truth is one, paths are many" ~ Mahatma Gandhi

And, I always add, your path is always true for you.

I grew up Mormon (LDS) and whole-heartedly believed so much of their silly premises until I was about 15, when I began questioning. But, the things I learned then that set up a foundation for everything else I've come to believe were things like faith, prayer, personal inspiration, the importance of family and reading scripture which lead to reading other books about spirituality. It took me a long time to work through much of my anger about the 'brainwashing' I received from such a young age, and now I can go back and appreciate what I did learn that I still hold dear.

That sounds like a really good one to read. I love hearing stories of how people changed their beliefs. And, I don't think it's exactly that they changed their beliefs rather than they allowed them to grow and the beliefs emerged into a new form. It's about asking those questions you may be afraid to ask, but they are always there waiting patiently for you.

The Dance of the Dissident Daughter

Just for the thread, I'm going to add the books mentioned here with the GR link and they'll show up under 'Books mentioned in this topic'. Then we can all reference them without searching the threads.

The Spiritual Brain A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul
The civilization of the goddess

(To add a book to your post, click on the 'add book/author' link above and it will come up with a search box. When you find the book, click add)

Great! I love finding new books on these subjects. I'll have to add it to my to-read list. :)

I've read that as well, Allan. In The Tao of Physics, Fritjof Capra talks about the Yin/Yang characteristics of religions and how the Abrahamic ones are very masculine in that outward, separate, linear & literal fashion. This happened in science as well about the same time, where before religion (spirituality, philosophy, mysticism) and science (alchemy, astrology/astronomy, herbalistic healing) were more interwoven and complimentary. Many think this means that science was more superstitious & therefore not based in fact or application, but research is finally seeing the value in the ancient methods and are beginning to use them again. Think acupuncture, yoga, herbalism, chakra meditation, etc. which are being used more and more in practical treatments for all kinds of diseases.

I think that is part of what drew me to the divine feminine aspect, it's wholistic point of view that incorporates mind, body and spirit. But, it was initially because of a need to explore 'taboo' ways of thinking that I hadn't been allowed to look at & question because of my patriarchal upbringing. I think both are really important, especially from a female point of view. (I can't say from a male point of view, obviously)

I agree with Campbell that there is a clash between the two, and I'm sincerely hoping that there can be some kind of broader perspective of religion in the future that incorporates both sides.

What a great dream, Leslie! My Dad always taught us that all people and things in your dreams are a piece of you attempting to communicate. So, you were having group therapy with yourself, including the "good doctor" and the hip, cool, inspirational Mr. Lennon parts of you. Very cool.

I would recommend this book to start reading about the history of the Divine Feminine in all its faces.
The Divine Feminine Exploring the Feminine Face of God Throughout the World
It's been a long time since I read it (and I really, really hope this is the same book), but it really opened up some great ideas for me about our history as women in a Divine perspective.

Oh Leslie, I sooo relate to how you are feeling about the bible & the whole christianity thing. When I left my parents' church I just said to hell with all of it, but also didn't want to loose the need to keep searching, so I went in other directions - goddess religions, eastern philosophies, even quantum physics and slightly new age ideas. Ultimately, I learned that it's all saying the same basic things and to pay attention to what calls to you inside. Your intuition will lead you on the path that you need to follow, the discoveries that will be important to you. Like feeling freedom in saying you'll never read the bible again, it really is liberating, isn't it?

The funny thing is, after almost 20 years I'm beginning to come full cycle and am finding purpose in the stories of the bible (which, after all, aren't original stories - they were all told long before the Abrahamic followers told them). The stories, or the myths, and what they mean personally to us are what are important. The more I read myths from other cultures and beliefs the more I realize how much the same they are, and that my concept of God has expanded and changed so much that it just doesn't resemble what I believed so fervently long ago. I've always had a deep draw to spiritual things, just like you, as a child. But, just because you find a "Truth" in one system of belief doesn't mean the others are wrong, or that you have to join up with a singular religion again. That was a hard one for me to learn.

The point is, just keep searching, keep reading, keep listening to what your voice tells you about it all. I believe we are all connected in a very intimate, spiritual and literal way, and that the stories that are told in church, in books, in front of a campfire 10,000 years ago are all small pieces of the same big story. We just have to remember that they will be colored by the culture & society that is telling them, and that they are small pieces of a very large Truth that we cannot truly understand all at once. We have to build our understanding of them brick by brick, story by story. But, the meaning is yours to interpret and allow it to make changes to your life and spirit.

Dianna, I love your grass analogy. That's exactly how I see spirituality as well.

Absolutely makes sense. I still dream about being back in my parents church, with them trying to marry me off to someone they want, and I end up screaming at them all and running out in my white dress. I think a lot of it is your subconscious trying to work through all the feelings that were pent up for so long and just getting it out, recreating the ending that you truly wanted.

After I left, I went through an entire phase of only praying to the Goddess. I even said a very frank prayer to God that I just needed my Mother for a while. I think when you have one side dominate for so long, you have to swing the pendulum for a while to balance it out... to find a comfort in the spiritual side that was denied. Now I'm more drawn to both, but I had to recreate in my mind what I thought the God & Goddess were, in a way that drew me spiritually and helped me feel more connected. I don't think it matters, truly, who or how you pray, just that you find it in yourself to connect to your spirit in the best way for you.

I was just talking to my parents about how the male dominated cultures tend to be more linear and left-brained, more literal & logical, and the female are more right-brained, creative & nurturing. Not to mean that men can't be that way, but the masculine side of an archetype tends to be more left-brained & the feminine right-brained. I believe that when the Judeo-Christian cultures began to make the rules they denied the feminine strengths and played up the weaknesses, because they needed to control the population and a domineering masculine force was the way to do it. It's come down to now through our society, through our schools where they teach in literal & linear left-brained ways, although most people respond better to abstract & exploratory right-brained ways. I just wonder what our culture would be like if we made changes in our education systems to reflect some of this.