Amaha's comments (member since Jun 23, 2008)

Amaha's comments from the Apocalypse Whenever group.

I'm not sure we can predict a particular future from the end of The Road. I felt like the book was presenting a contrast between two responses to disaster: the man's (fearful, defensive) and the boy's (open, trusting). Almost like diverging strategies in game theory; a prisoner's dilemma. For almost all of the book, it seems the man's approach is correct, and that's why he & the boy have survived. But the ending flips it on its head. It suggests that at least part of the problem was not that people aren't worthy of trust, but that the man wasn't capable of it, and thus had no place in a society based on trust.

I'm adding to my to-read shelf- thanks! Didn't she also write Memoirs of a Survivor? I never read it but I understand it was a post-apocalyptic novel that was made into a movie. I had it on my GreenCine rental queue before I canceled my membership.

William wrote:
The reply I posted was directed at "(or black people regress to savagery, e.g., Lucifer's Hammer). "

"

I should say that 1) I picked up Lucifer's Hammer a long time ago, so my memories have faded somewhat and 2) I didn't finish reading it, because I didn't enjoy it. As far as I remember, you're right that the African continent wasn't part of the story. I was loosely going back & forth talking about depictions of Africans in Africa and depictions of African-Americans, as in LH.

From what I remember of LH, and the reviews I've read subsequently, the villains are black street gangs who turn into cannibals and talk what Niven and Pournelle imagined was '70's black slang. The cannibalism was what I was referring to as "regressing to savagery". For a discussion of some of the racial themes in the book- by both defenders and critics- see here: http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t...

In any case, I'm not really qualified to debate the merits of the book without rereading it. The larger point was that in a lot of science fiction futures, black folks are either entirely absent or only around as one-dimensional caricatures. There are some standout exceptions, like Fortunate Fall, and in the post-apocalyptic genre Parable of the Sower and Alas, Babylon come to mind. And who knows, maybe the election of a black president will help make it possible for people to imagine a broader range of possible futures.

William- are you referring to V or Lucifer's Hammer, here?

I seem to recall there was a nuclear apocalypse in V, just not a total one. I remember the bit where they say "Africa is no longer there", because I remember being annoyed that in post-apocalyptic novels Africa is so frequently wiped off the map (or black people regress to savagery, e.g., Lucifer's Hammer).

Very interesting recs, Felicia, most new to me. Did you mean No Blade of Grass, or The Death of Grass? I'd never heard of the latter John Christopher book, and I've been a Tripods fan since I was little. It appears to be out of print.

Parable of the Soweris the book that made me a card-carrying apocalyptican, and still my favorite of the type.

And it's cheating a bit, but... I'm going to throw The Years of Rice and Salt out there. It's not just one of my favorite post-apocalypse books, it's one of my favorite books, period. I think it qualifies because it is premised on the Plague wiping out a large chunk of humanity, but it's not a "pure" science-fictional post-apoc novel, having elements of fantasy and alternate history. Caveat lector, though: other people's reviews suggest it's a polarizing book, with as many readers hating it as loving it.

I thought The Road was amazing as well. Bleak, yes, but ultimately uplifting, and incredibly well crafted. A little dark gem of a novel.

Speaking of which... Parable of the Sower/Parable of the Talents is great American apocalyptic fiction, all the more so because the apocalypse is not total, but a fairly plausible economic/social/ ecological collapse. It's actually the book that got me started on the whole (sub)genre of apocalyptic fiction.

I thought WWU was brilliant, also. For me some of the most interesting parts veered away from the narrow "how long will the stuff we built last after we leave" question and explored, broadly, the question of human impact on the planet (and outer space, too). I was fascinated by the megafauna extinction, too, but I was particularly saddened by the description of the passenger pigeon's extinction. And WWU inspires a passion for some of the remaining wonders, human-built and natural, of the world, like the salt caves of Turkey and the Great Forest of Poland.

See my profile for a longer review.

A classic YA series is the Tripod Trilogy by John Christopher (aka Samuel Youd, a Brit). It's more post-alien-invasion than post-apocalypse per se. It was one of my favorites as a kid. I remembered it being set in America, but the action actually starts in a fictional village near Winchester, then moves to France, Switzerland and Germany. As with many things from my youth, my memory of it is better than the actuality, but I'm still fond of it.

Some more obscure selections:

Pulse (Kairo)- Japanese- weird and distressing.

Le Dernier Combat (French, duh)- thought it was OK- kind of like Delicatessen amid the ruins.

On the Beach- haven't seen it yet, but liked the book (one of the earliest post-apocalypse books) and have it on my GreenCine queue.

Also haven't seen any of the following, but have them on my queue:

Memoirs of a Survivor (based on Doris Lessing novel)
Weekend (Godard)
The Signal (just came out last year).

12 Monkeys is a favorite, and I'm really excited to see Quiet Earth.

As you can see, I am on a serious post-apocalyptic movie-watching mission.

Have you tried Abebooks itself for finding an affordable copy? Out-of-print and discount books is where they shine compared to Amazon, Powell's, etc. I just did a quick search and found a bunch of copies for under $3. Of course, shipping can be expensive with some of their booksellers, so it's best to 1)order from some of the booksellers with larger inventories and cheaper shipping policies and 2)bundle several books in an order.

Well, the "food is scarce and expensive" part seems prescient, anyway. Viz:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/0...

Hi all, new to group.

I thought Alas, Babylon was pretty darn good for its era. I haven't gotten around to Canticle yet, but it's on my list.

I thought Dies the Fire was interesting from a technical stand point, how the author thinks through the implications of the no-more-electricity-or-combustion conceit for social organization and warfare. But much of the dialogue was so bad that it made my head hurt. In particular, this book stands as a warning to any writer who would attempt to write ethnic dialect without a sophisticated understanding of it. At one point, Stirling actually writes:

"Yo," one of the Crip leaders said. "We thinkin' move out to the country, get the eats. With no guns, the farmers not much trouble."

Um, seriously?