Femmy's comments (member since Jul 29, 2007)

Femmy's comments from the Islam group.

I really should be working, but can't resist dropping by this thread :-) I'll just be quick and return with a more detailed answer when I have time later.

My response to Aliya's question is in message 14.
I think Muslims don't mind if non-Muslims wear hijab when visiting our countries, perhaps even prefer it. I think I read somewhere that when you visit Iran or Saudi Arabia, you are required to cover (don't take my word for it, though).

My country, Indonesia, is pretty secular. If you go to the capital Jakarta, many women there dress like western people, some even wear revealing clothes. But if you go to more religious events, it would be advisable for you to wear more modest clothing.

Wendy wrote: "Clearly, however, by your initial question...about haaram clothing and Muslim women who do not wear the hijab, that seems to be not considered nice to do, and a violation of Muslim identity or faith by some."

The initial question wasn't from me, it was from Aliya.

Wendy wrote: "I am suggesting that one's faith does not have to be tied to a particular clothing style or garment."

I guess that's your belief, and my belief is different.

The age of responsibility in Islam is puberty, i.e. when girls have their first menstrual period and when boys have their first wet dreams. Women don't have to wear hijab anymore when they have menopause and don't wish to marry (Al-Qur'an 24:60).

Why do you wear clothes, Wendy? The answer to the above question is the same as your answer to this question. You make it seem that wearing hijab is something foreign that need special explanation, when in fact it's just another way of wearing clothes, which everybody in the world does.

Wendy wrote: "So the protection is from men's lustful gaze or is it from actions?"

I think I already answered this one in message 16.

In Islam men have to cover from the navel to the knees. Yes, the rules are different for men and women, and this is because men and women have different physiology. Even in most societies, women have to wear "hiding" garments for their breasts, while men don't. So this difference in rules isn't an unusual notion, is it? As I said, it's just that different societies draw different lines about what should be covered.

I don't mean to imply that wearing full hijab is the only way to guard your body. Of course the friends that you mentioned are also guarding their bodies although they don't wear headscarves. It's like, some people think it's sufficient to guard their house with a simple lock, while other people put alarm systems, guard dogs, even security guards to protect their homes, and of course there are many degrees of protection between the two extremes.

Hi Wendy. Islam doesn't just tell women to wear hijab. Islam requires both men and women to take responsibility in guarding their bodies, as well as in controlling their sexual desires. (Al-Qur'an 24:30-31). Both are important.

As an analogy, people don't generally steal, but you do take responsibility over your belongings. You lock the door when you leave your house or apartment, you lock your car when you park it, you put your valuable belongings in a safe place if you go to crowded places. You guard the things that are valuable to you.

I think it's interesting that some women, who consider their body as one of their most valuable possessions, don't take responsibility to guard it and demand that only men be responsible in controlling their desires.

Aliya wrote: "i was just wondering what u guys think about muslims these days, especially girl muslims, half of them dont wear scarves and they wear shorts and tank tops....do u think that this is right??? and when u ask them why they r dressing this way they usually say "becasue i live in america now"....i dont think that people should do whatever they want JUST because they live in a different place.....so...do u guys think it's okay?"

On one hand, I think Muslim women *should* wear hijab wherever they are. It's not okay to discard hijab just because you're in another country.

On the other hand, I believe that wearing hijab should come from the heart. It shouldn't come as a pressure from parents or other people. The best way is to make them understand the purpose of hijab.

Isaiah wrote: "I wonder whether or not this change is more so due to assimilation or amalgamation...or is it truly just self-liberation?"

Aliya wrote: "most muslims now a days think that wearing hijab will make them "un cool".....and that ppl will make fun of them...."

I think true self-liberation is when a person can do according to her belief without fear of being persecuted by others. If Muslim women are afraid that people will make fun of them (or discriminate against them) because they wear hijab, I don't think that this is self-liberation. Instead, they are shackled by peer-pressure that thinks that hijab is "uncool".

Wendy wrote: "This, however, is not necessarily to be blamed on Islam but the rural tribal culture."

Hi Wendy. I agree that the things you describe are related to local culture. Those things are not related to the purpose of hijab.

Nathan wrote: "What is the purpose of females wearing hijabs? "

Hi Nathan. The first purpose of hijab is modesty. (Al Qur'an 24:31) I'm sure you agree that all societies require their members to be modest about their bodies. Even in western liberal societies, men and women are "required" to wear some kind of clothing. Perhaps nudists are the only people who don't require this.

So modesty is not an unusual notion in itself, don't you think? It's just that different societies draw different lines about it. Some societies are okay or are used to people wearing minimal covering, while some societies like their members to wear fuller covering. I don't think we can say that any one way is the right way, other than by our personal beliefs.

The second purpose of hijab is identity. By wearing hijab, women are identified as Muslims. (Al Qur'an 33:59)

As for myself, I choose to wear hijab for both these reasons. I'm proud to be a Muslim and one of the ways to show it is through my clothing. As for the modesty part, I like thinking that I reserve showing some parts of my body only to my closest family.

Think of it this way, if you'd like. Often, reserving something only for certain occasion or sharing something only with certain people makes that something special. For example, sexual relationship is special if you reserve it only for your husband or wife. And that makes your husband or wife special people, too. It's not that special anymore if you have sex with several or lots of people. I think of hijab in a similar way. By reserving showing parts my body to certain people that are close to me, I feel like that my body (including my hair) is special, that I'm honoring it and treasuring it. And it makes my family special people, too.

Hi aliya. No, I don't think it's haram.

Oh, I get it now. How did I manage to miss the date? :D

Lol! I gather you didn't get a satisfactory answer last year, and that's why you're asking it again?

Well, Muslims don't celebrate Christmas. We consider it as a Christian celebration, not a Muslim one. I don't know what else to say other than that. Is there something specific you want to know?

Not Bill, I think action is more important than words, don't you think? A couple of months ago, the Indonesian police raided a terrorist complex and one of the leaders behind several bombings in Indonesia (in Bali and Jakarta) was killed. Other people behind these bombings have also been captured and executed. So we do our own share. I wonder if things like this make the news over there.

Don't take the "silence" here the wrong way. Probably people just have other things in their lives that need their attention.

Well, the majority of Muslims are peaceful people, who live by these verses. The disconnect you mention applies only a very small minority, who resorts to violence to achieve their purpose. For example, in Indonesia alone, there are over 200 million Muslims. And how many of those are militants? A drop in the ocean. Unfortunately, some people stubbornly consider the acts of these militants as correctly representing Islam, instead of the acts of the 200 million Muslims.

Wendy wrote: "The predestination inherent in Islam (some folk are already condemned to suffering in life and after death no matter what they do), he argues is not a helpful aspect"

About predestination, there are many websites on Islam that have a good discussion on this, which disagree with Ibn Warraq's statement above.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...

There are reformist movements in Islam. In Indonesia (my country), Muhammadiyah is one such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammadiya...

Marieke wrote: "when they find out Jesus is important in Islam and that "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God," people begin to feel more open to muslims and Islam. I have a copy of the Quran and I have a copy of the Bible in Arabic. I like to show people the word "Allah" in both."

You know, Marieke, Christians in Indonesia also use "Allah" for "God". As you know, Islam came into Indonesia first and many religious terms in Arabic were absorbed into the Indonesian vocabulary. So when Christianity came later, Christian religious texts were translated into this "Arabic-flavored" Indonesian.

That's why we see that both Muslims and Christians in Indonesia use many of the same words derived from Arabic--from religious concepts like "jemaat/jamaah" for "congregation" and "iman" for "faith", to the names of prophets like "Ayub" for "Job" and "Daud" for "David", and even the word "Allah" for "God". Indonesian Christians say "Allah Bapa" for "God the Father". So the notion that "Allah" is the God of Muslims doesn't apply here :-)