Wendy F Wendy F's Comments (member since Jul 28, 2010)

Wendy F's comments from the Outlander Series group.

(showing 81-100 of 2,920)

Mar 19, 2014 08:52AM

9277 Sarah wrote: "Sadism by itself isn't wrong or twisted. It is your personality and how you use it"

I don't mean that it is. I don't believe that it is. However, a person can make it twisted and that's BJR. (Which is also why I said that HE was twisted, not that IT was twisted.)
Mar 19, 2014 07:49AM

9277 Sarah wrote: "BJR gay? I was under the assumption he was bi - with a preference for men."

LOL, too funny. I think BJR was a sadist. He couldn't get aroused for anyone unless they were in pain. Pain turned him on, and he didn't care if it was man or woman. Claire said that it was obvious when she stopped screaming that he lost his erection. If she had stayed screaming he could have done it. Jenny too, that he lost his erection when she started insulting him and laughing. I think that was true of Jamie and the men too. He enjoys hurting for the physical pleasure he derives from it. He's twisted.
Mar 19, 2014 07:47AM

9277 Lynn wrote: "And I know several gay men who wouldn't even think about going near a woman. I think BJR was frustrated with the fact that he ahem "couldn't perform with women." Let's not beat a dead horse now....."

Sure yeah, me too. However we're in the 21st Century. Back then life wasn't like that.
Mar 18, 2014 04:59PM

9277 Well, and you also have to think about the times. Back then most 'fancy men', lol, were in the closet and their orientation was generally kept private. Like LJG they take wives and quite often had children because it was their 'duty'.

I don't think it's even remotely out of the realm of possibility that, if Jamie hadn't wounded BJR in a way that made procreating impossible, BJR likely WOULD have gone on to have a child.
Mar 18, 2014 12:32PM

9277 Right, at that point where Claire stopped Jamie they thought Frank was the direct descendant of BJR. It was thought that because Frank adopted Alex's son, so that's how it showed in his genealogy, that Frank was descendant of BJR.... but it was actually a lie.

Claire didn't know that until the end of DIA when Mary was pregnant with Alex's child.
Mar 18, 2014 12:10PM

9277 Exactly
Mar 18, 2014 07:18AM

9277 Me too!
Mar 18, 2014 07:05AM

9277 We agree more than you think we do, haha. I do think he deserved a suitable death for all he had done. And I do not think that he was a good man. It reminds me of Harry Potter, judge a man by how he treats his lessers. The way he treated everyone else is the measure of good man, not the way he treats his family.

My only point was that in that moment, you got to see him through someone's eyes who loved him. You got to see something more human in his character, not just 'the bad guy' of the story. And, that I thought it was telling that even Jamie had compassion for him at that moment. It's, quite honestly, the mark of what kind of man our Jamie is. That he could even show mercy to his worst enemy during grief.
Fiery Cross (463 new)
Mar 18, 2014 07:00AM

9277 Just to add another opinion on the Jem Roger thing. I think he thinks about it, but... I actually don't think he was all the conflicted. When she first had him he was but love quickly overshadows paternity in a lot of cases. Look at Frank and Bree. If it wasn't for Claire not being able to let go of Jamie, I think Frank wouldn't have felt conflicted at all about who's little swimmers it took to make his baby. Jem is Rogers in all the ways that matter. So, I think he thinks about it on occasion, as anyone would, i don't think he's 'conflicted'.
Mar 18, 2014 06:49AM

9277 Hey, I said most people wouldn't agree with me, lmao.

I understand why Claire couldn't sit back and do nothing. She believes that Franks existence is tied to him, and even though she didn't want to be with him she didn't want him to stop existing either... in her mind it was killing a good man with the bad.
Mar 12, 2014 07:20PM

9277 lol, not a problem.
Mar 12, 2014 06:12PM

9277 Well, I mean I just feel like it was more obscure than that. I think she loved Frank when she chose Jamie because he had been special to her. She didn't want to think of anything happening to him, and she kept his ring as a symbol of their lost relationship, but at that point she let Frank go romantically.

Then she leaves Jamie and there was just no way she could love another man the way she loved him, and to attempt to felt like a betrayal of him. He was it for her. Like Carren said, she even told Frank he was free to go (which he never would have, because of Bree). She knew that after the massive feeling of loss she felt that she'd never be the wife she may have been otherwise.

Again, repeating Carren, Jamie was her destiny. He was the other half of her soul, if you believe in that. Frank could never be that for her. That didn't mean that she didn't love him in a different way. I don't think that it ever stopped, she lvoed him when he was alive and she loved him the same when he was gone. That's what I mean about perspective. Feeling the love she felt for Jamie she realized that what she thought she felt for Frank before was placid. Her love for Jamie was vivid.

Does that make sense, lmao.
Mar 12, 2014 06:06PM

9277 I still don't like him either, but in that moment only I could feel sorry for him.
Mar 12, 2014 01:36PM

9277 Mrsbooks wrote: "When Jamie says what he said about Frank being a better man because he raised a child that wasn't his own...I had thought at the time he was more so referring to Clare having had an affair through ..."

I don't think that her love for Frank changed. I think meeting Jamie, and the all consuming passion she had for him, put her love for Frank in perspective.

I don't think she EVER loved him the way she loved Jamie, not before, and certainly not after. She cared about him, even after he passed away, they had a bond through their respect and love for each other (because she did love him) even if it wasn't really 'in love' love.

To try to love him the way he wanted to be loved she would have been living a lie, because that love was reserved for Jamie.

I don't blame Claire for that. It was what it was, and they both tried to do the best they could for Bree. If Bree hadn't been born and she still stayed in a stunted relationship with Frank, I think I could blame her. But for Bree they toughed it out and stayed together.
Mar 12, 2014 01:32PM

9277 I agree completely, she would have been happy with Frank, I think, had she not met Jamie who was definitely the great love of her life.
Mar 12, 2014 01:02PM

9277 haha, I don't mind being controversial. As long as we can all get along in our differences.

I know that he's sadistic. I know that what he did to Jamie, and likely others, was unforgivable. I don't think he should have been spared in any way. But I appreciated DG for giving us the relationship between BJR and his brother. It gave us an opportunity to see another side of him. With his brother I saw affection, vulnerability. And not just how he was with Alex, but how Alex felt about him. When (view spoiler), I could feel the BJR's grief. And Jamie could too, because that scene when he (view spoiler) was powerful. And then Jamie (view spoiler). You just got to see a different side of BJR and it made him a more complex character. Still a bad guy, but still all shades of gray.

But I have no doubt that very few people agree with me because I know I've gotten into this debate more than once on these threads, lol.
Mar 12, 2014 10:51AM

9277 Black Jack Randall
Mar 12, 2014 10:49AM

9277 Oh, harsh words. I have to say I disagree. I think he was way more complex than that.

I also think he was unfaithful, but only when they were separated during the war and while it's wrong it's also (for me) forgivable. Fighting a war is an emotional stressful time and shit happens. Claire even admitted to an occasional kiss, though she never let it go further. (Not to mention that while we all love them, Jamie was technically an affair.) I do not think he was unfaithful to her during their time before the war, nor do I think he would have been unfaithful to her had she never fallen through the stones.

I don't think he was a womanizer, I think he took other women to his bed once he realized Claire would never stop loving the 'other man'. He also knew he couldn't leave her without losing Bree, and he didn't want his daughter to grow up in a split home... so, he got to a place where he took physical pleasure (maybe even love in some cases) where he could. I think Claire and Frank were victims of happenstance and their story may have been very different.

20 years with very little sex in a marriage who is obviously in love with another man, whom you don't even really get along with anymore. That's a really damn long time. Was Jamie a womanizer for taking the woman in the cave. For remarrying? Claire was physically lost to him. Well, she was also emotionally lost to Frank. I don't blame him.
Mar 12, 2014 10:37AM

9277 Exactly. I love my husband. He's so important to me. He was my best friend before we broke down and started dating and I thank god every day that he's mine. But our daughter is a part of him, and a part of me, and I love her so much. I couldn't leave her. Not at 19. Possibly when she was married with children of her own, even then it would be seriously hard. And he wouldn't want me to leave her.

I think it's easy to really hate a character that has caused so much strife in the relationship of other characters you love. I always felt she was exactly has DG describes her. Young, conniving, jealous... I doubt I would have liked to be friends with her, but I find her interesting and I find her story very sad. But then, I tend to sympathize too, lmao. There are even things I could say about BJR that nobody else would agree with because there was a point in the story where I felt sad for him too.
Mar 12, 2014 09:59AM

9277 I don't fault her for that, and I don't think she was a bad mother. But, she was willing to leave Bree to go back to Jamie even when Bree was only 19 years old, I'm sorry a 19 year old still needs their mother. And I was always struck by the 'don't get fat' portion of the letter. I get what she was trying to say, but it was how she said it.

I'm not saying I don't love Claire, I do. I just think that it was one of her flaws. Claire even admitted that Frank was the better more attentive parent, and it wasn't just her job. I could see why Frank maybe got frustrated with her in terms of the parenting aspect.

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