Nathan's comments (member since May 19, 2009)

Nathan's comments from the Evolution vs. Intelligent Design group.

When I choose to believe it, my life becomes better than without.

That doesn't mean that it is actually true.

But at the same time, I see the same argument can be used about whether the sun will rise tomorrow. No one can possibly know that the sun will rise tomorrow, unless they went to the future and saw it happen.

That's the thing. I never say, "I know for a fact that the sun will exist to morrow." I am pretty sure it will be based on the scientific evidence that it will not burn our for billions of years. Christians say they know god is everything they think he is all the time. I would be relatively happy if Christians would start strictly using "I believe" instead of "I know."

To Nathan: When someone of another religion says they "know" this to be true, it is basd on their testimony or personal experience. At least that is what I mean when I say "I know that I receive personal revelation from God". Yes, it is wrong to force someone else to know what you think you know but it is ok to encourage someone follow your beliefs.

No, when they say they "know," they are lying. If you say you "know," you are lying. Why? Because you (and they) are claiming to know something that you (and they) cannot possibly know.

I agree with you that it is wrong for someone to lie, but it is not wrong for a person to tell others what they believe in.

Aren't all of these people of different religions lying when they say they know what they believe is true? I have never had a major problem with someone who says he believes something is true. However, that is not typically the case. Religious people tend to say they know what they believe is the truth and that is a lie.

Dan wrote this
You're a moron. You didn't hit a nerve, you just made me realize you have zero logic skills and near to zero intelligence. Therefore, moron.

Pretty sure I wrote that, not Dan.

If that is what you think, fine. You are one as well.

Nice comeback.

That is a word you yourself criticized as being redundant.

I didn't criticize anything as being redundant.

You have failed several times to see my argument and I don’t know how to spell it out any more for you. I even tried to use your word of “positive benefit” to explain.

I guess you didn't read my post. You are more of an idiot than I thought. I explained that if you change what you originally said to what you are now claiming (that some people benefit from false belief), I agree with you.

The whole point of Jesus’s teachings is the Golden Rule.

That was his whole point? I guess he wasted his time coming to earth then, because Confucius said the same thing long before Jesus.

You're a moron. You didn't hit a nerve, you just made me realize you have zero logic skills and near to zero intelligence. Therefore, moron.

I am not the one redefining words "good reason" and "positive benefit" don't mean the same thing. This is why rgb and I were arguing with you. Neither one of us ever claimed that people have not benefited from believing things that are not true. If you want to change your argument to "People sometimes benefit from believing things that are not true" fine, but don't pretend that we were disagreeing with that argument. If you had stated your argument in proper terms in the first place, you would not have received dissenting viewpoints.

There are people who have benefitted society who don't believe in the bible sure. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Okay. So why the hell would you bring up the point that people who believe in the Bible benefited society? That doesn't prove or disprove anything either. You are not too smart. You essentially proved my entire point.

I say otherwise and I use the evidence that it has bettered people's lives as a result of their belief in it.

You're a moron if you can't understand the difference between what rgb is saying and what you are saying. Until you get it, I can't help you. I mean, Jesus Christ, it isn't that hard to understand.

If you believe that bees have rabies and you don't go near them, while this is not true, it is a good reason because you save yourself from getting stung.

No, it isn't a good reason to believe. There is a positive benefit I receive from believing it, but I do not have a good reason to believe bees actually have rabies.

If the results are good, then there is a good reason to do it. Its that simple.

Wow, I never thought anyone could have this bad of an understanding of logic.

There is much evidence to show that there are good reasons to believe in God.

No, there isn't. What is the evidence?

But to say "no good reason" is a falsity and poor logic.

No, the poor logic is you thinking that a positive benefit is evidence that the original assumption is true. It isn't.

There is irrefutable evidence to show that people who believe in the bible have benefitted much to society. I can't believe that RGB, one who claims to be a scientist makes the claim that there is no good reason to believe the bible to be true, or that it is the evil myth.

Jesus Christ. Your first sentence doesn't really make sense, but if I am to assume you mean either that people who believe in the Bible have benefited society or that people who believe in the Bible have benefited from their belief, all I can say is......so freaking what? People who don't believe in the Bible have benefited society. So does that prove the Bible isn't true?

rgb never said that people can't benefit from believing in the Bible. What he said was that there is no good reason to actually believe the Bible is true. Which there is not. To say someone benefits from believing it doesn't mean there is evidence what they believe is actually true. I might believe bees have rabies so I won't go near them. This might benefit me in that I will never be stung, but it doesn't actually mean that bees have rabies. The fact that some belief may benefit someone does not make the belief true.

give me 5 different pieces of "evidence" of evolution that haven't been proven false.

I will give you one to start. Then you can give me one that supposedly has. The fossil records show us that organisms have become more complex over time. Simpler organisms existed before more complex ones.

Now show me a piece of evidence that has been falsified.

HOWEVER, we DO have the book of Genesis.

It's a story, not history.

There was a whole section on why it says "us" when God speaks.

Yes, and the answer is: Most ancient religions were polytheistic.

I believe that the earth was created by God just as the Bible records.

That's ridiculous. The evidence of the earth's age can attest to the fact that it certainly wasn't created thousands of years ago.

and not to mention, every piece of "evidence" that evolutionists have brought out have been proven FALSE

This is complete nonsense and could not possibly be further from the truth.

this is not a spelling bee

Ana,

It may not be, but I certainly wouldn't trust someone who would get kicked out of one on the first word to help me answer the all important questions of the world. It always cracks me up the way some people think that all that matters is the "truth" they can find in the Bible. They think, "It doesn't matter if I am dumb and ignorant of the way the world works as long as I believe in Jesus and the Bible."

Well, Jesus isn't real and the Bible is a pile of bullshit stories. It does matter if you are dumb or not, so try your best not to be.

hey let me tell u something guys.u dont have any idea wat re u talking about.So just be careful in things tat u dont understand liked this one.

First of all, you can't even spell, so don't begin to lecture the intelligent in the room about intelligence.

There are many people who do so today. That is a fact, and however irrational it may seem to you, it still exists.

People who believe aliens make frequent trips to earth in order to anally probe us exist, but that doesn't mean they are rational or logical in their belief.

As far as evolution making God appear like he doesn't exist, that is your opinion. I don't see it that way.

Try not to be obtuse. Of course evolution makes it appear that god doesn't exist. It shows how we can have complex organisms with the appearance of design without actually having a designer.

The way one can find out if God exists is through meditation and prayer.

This is such an idiotic statement that I laughed out loud.

If one is praying, one already assumes that a god exists and believes a god exists. That is not an objective test of whether a god exists or not.

How would prayer accomplish this goal? Pray for things and if you get them, god exists? If you don't get them, he still exists but works in mysterious ways? Give me a break.

Perhaps you should try using a little more reason before you type posts like that.

Ridiculous.

Nathan, that is your opinion of God and a rather weak one I think, but that is fine. However, it doesn't matter whether God is a 'lazy bum' or not. My point is that evolution and God can coexist.

Well, your point is ridiculous. Why on earth would god use evolution (which makes it seem like he doesn't exist at all) as his method for creating the diversity of life if believing in god is extremely important? He would be using a method which makes himself appear as if he doesn't exist.

I really hate when religious people claim that everyone relies on faith. It isn't true by any means.

Rational people rely on evidence, not faith. Logic isn't about faith. I don't take it on faith that mutually exclusive things are mutually exclusive, for instance.

I don't have faith in evolution, I have evidence that evolution is true. It isn't a matter of faith that I think I will wake up tomorrow morning, I have evidence that it is likely I will wake up tomorrow.

This isn't good enough for the religious though. They want to pretend that their faith in ridiculous things is valid, so they try to show that "others must have faith too" and that "they can't possibly live without it."

It is always the asinine religious person who says believing that I will wake up in the morning is equivalent to believing that 2000 years ago a man/god/invisible spirit walked the earth and then was crucified and rose from the dead in order to save humanity.

Sure there doesn't have to be a creator to get it all started, however I find it hard to believe that everything just magically came out of nowhere and things got started, but even so, evolution doesn't not need a god either.

Hmmm.....perhaps you shouldn't use double negatives. And, yes, evolution doesn't need a god. Point out to me how evolution does need a god.

You find it hard to believe that everything came out of nowhere, so you suppose that something like god (who would by definition need to be more complex than everything else) came out of nowhere? This makes no sense.

"I can't imagine that all this complex stuff happened without direction, so I will suppose that something else which is even more complex did happen without any direction so that I can explain the occurrence of something less complex."

Makes NO sense.

A big thing I think that people don't realize is that evolution does not contradict christian faith, as I talked about in my previous posts.

Of course it does. God would be a lazy bum if he let evolution do all the work for him.