Steve's comments

Steve's comments from the Constant Reader group.

Note: Steve is no longer a member of this group.

I take every point made in response to what I have said here. I do. I really do.

This brings me back to the ending of this story, which is what I came here to discuss. Every single thing I have said, whether it be right or wrong, is related to my question.

What then do you make of this ending statement?

She felt the pressure of his hand leave her thigh. She was knickerless. She was victorious. She was a truly modern female.

Is being knickerless somehow related to Gillian's feeling of being victorious?

She has not returned to her comfortable old tangas. She is now not wearing any underpants at all. What the hell is that all about?

What is the nature of her victory? Is her victory the fact that she has now earned some respect from Mr. Kip? Or is her victory the fact that she has now found the wherewithal to dump him?

How is she now a truly modern female?

Are these statements related to each other or not?

Let me say this as gently as I can. I am certainly interested in how Ruthie feels about the subject of uncomfortable underwear even though she has not read the story. I am interested in Sherry's feelings about high heels. I am interested in all of your opinions about any and all subjects. I am interested in Gabrielle and Sebastien, too.

It is just that I have questions about the ending of this story. It is a story written by a woman featuring a main character who is female. I thought that posing my questions about the ending of this story to a room full of intelligent, opinionated women might be enlightening. Does anyone see any ambiguity or mystery in this ending other than me? Do I just not get it? Is it as cut and dried as Beej seems to think?

I am kinda pleading now for a discussion of this story. And it certainly is possible that I just do not get it. If that is the case, I can live with it.

Your quite right to react the way you have, Yulia, if that is how you interpreted my remarks. I did not intend my remarks in that way, however.

Here is my point. Older women have an accumulated wisdom about what is important in life. They have had their men. They also have had their children. I think that they are a bit quick sometimes to criticize—I can't think of a better word—younger women who are in a far different situation. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that they have trouble remembering what that situation was like IF they were ever in it themselves.

Let us set aside the feelings and attitudes of present company just for a moment. Also, let us talk about what is instead of what should be. . . .again, only for a moment.

Let us talk about nervous, size sixteen, single women in their thirties who are in the marketplace and in the grip of the urge to procreate—Schopenhauer's Will—one of whom is the subject of this story. Most—not all—but most young women do wish to procreate. I am more than 51% sure about that. Therefore, I am assuming, without having been told, that Gillian does.

The competition for mates is just that. A competition. And it can be a brutal one for both of the primary genders. It therefore seems quite understandable to me why a nervous, size sixteen, single woman in her thirties would, first of all, compromise her standards regarding the ideal mate and, second, wear an uncomfortable undergarment if she thought that would give her an edge in the procreation competition.

Neither of these things are something new that just smote young women out of the blue in the late Twentieth Century and early Twenty-first Century. These are things that have been going on for a long time, and I do not see them changing any time soon. Things will change when women no longer need men in order to have babies.

Perhaps someone could explain to me what is wrong with feminine fashion. Why do we say that women “do this to themselves,” as if they are a victim of their own stupidity. Couture is a legitimate art form, to allude to just one facet of the subject. I find feminine fashion trends fascinating and delightful.

Unless a young woman in the market for male companionship and a possible mate has a perfect body--and there are damned few of those--then uncomfortable undergarments come with the territory. They always have come with that territory for the last several hundred years and maybe more, to allude to another facet of the subject. That seems perfectly understandable to me. Darwin has much to say about that.

This story just happens to be a humorous treatment of an initially uncomfortable feminine undergarment. I am not sure it is saying that there is anything wrong with that. Or is it?

And let's face it. It did turn on Mr. Kip.

Well, the great sign of a piece of good fiction for me is when I am only 51% sure about my conclusions. Black and white fiction is for children. Black and white endings are for the movies.

I am only 51% sure here.

But reliable men who are available are scarce commodities.

Of course Mr. Kip is a caricature created by Ms. Barker--simply a foil. She did a wonderful job of finding every one of our buttons to push that she could. All I needed to know was that we were going to a Rotary banquet. That was all it took for me. What assholes! The kind of men who would worry about the leather upholstery in their collectible cars. If we dare generalize about that. Also, he should have purchased the frock for her.

But his worst sin was a sin of omission and not commission that was apparent only by its omission. Later on that.

Which raises the question of why Gillian is with him in the first place, not to mention the fact that this has been a long term relationship. Lack of self-esteem certainly plays a big part in that, I suppose, Beej. However, I want to point out the one and only asset he possesses. He is reliable--pudgy but reliable. (See first paragraph.) Will not women put up with a lot in return for reliability, if we dare generalize on that subject at all either? Leaving out, of course, women who have that fatal weakness for the bad boys, who I think constitute a small but very noticeable minority. I am just asking. I do not pretend to know.

My point is this. Ms. Barker made Mr. Kip so contemptible that she realized she had to give us a reason why Gillian was with him. Reliability was that reason. She gave us that reason right away in the beginning, and it seemed perfectly understandable to me.

Gillian is a “nervous size sixteen.” I loved that. And to have a Swiss Army knife in her purse! Perfect. I was truly hers at that point. I did so wish to know which model of Swiss Army knife, however.

I am very interested in this conclusion, and I am surprised that it seems so ambiguous to me and so cut and dried to you, Beej. Could one not interpret this as the beginning of a better, more even-sided relationship with Mr. Kip rather than the end of the relationship? Could not her switch to “Colin” instead of “Mr. Kip” mean that as well?

She felt the pressure of his hand leave her thigh. She was knickerless. She was victorious. She was a truly modern female.

And Mr. Kip was very impressed. It appears to me that he had acquired a new respect for her but that he was cut off until he demonstrated that.

Y'all will pardon me if I do not believe a word any of you say about feminine fashion trends or panty lines or anything else of the sort. What you may say to each other socially and what you do when the chips are down in connection with a man are two entirely different things. There is a reason that owner of the Victoria's Secret store in Ohio is wealthy, and the reason is women. And y'all are women. In fact that is the major point of this story.

LOL. (The third time in my life that I have used that.)

Which is exactly what I do quite often, Capitu.

Oh, wonderful, Capitu! Confessions is good for the soul, and you came clean. I so wish that I could go to my first opera all over again. I am envious of you.

Then again and as I wrote that, I determined to put a hold on my envy until you report back.

Sex and death. Together the makings of great opera.

Capitu makes a very good point. Go ahead and nominate it for that list. Persistence is a good thing here, as has been mentioned before.

Yes, Ricki. Somehow I missed your message 35 back in June, or I most surely would have responded. My belated apologies for that loose talk about poolside outdoors and such when you were still suffering.

The video of highlights of the Opera de San Miguel Concurso 2009, the opera competition that I attended in June, are up, Capitu. (Even though that linked site is under renovation, you can still see photos of the finalists.) You can view the video highlights of the competition at this youtube location. Bearable audio.

You can see my man, Manuel Chú, at 5:05 of this video doing “Nessun Dorma.” He did not win the competition, but he won the vote as crowd favorite.

How kind of you to remember.

Yes, thank you, Ricki. All I had to do was look back at how it was handled before, and it all came back to me. I have plenty of time.

Thanks.

By the way, will the books be discussed in the order they are listed? Did I miss anything in that regard? I have a less than satisfactory English language section in the public library here and considerably extended shipping times for mail orders.

After a scouting trip to the library today, I find that this will be the third damned time that I have purchased The Sheltering Sky.


The Courtyard of La Biblioteca Publica.

A beautiful place to read though.

This is wonderful news, Erin--again for me personally. You describe a history of experience with Faulkner remarkably similar to my own. A big false start when you were young.

We are either going to have fun with Go Down, Moses, or I am going to hire a private investigator to find out why we did not.

Just a quick note of reassurance about the Faulkner selection. Upwards of 95% of Go Down, Moses is very accessible. . . .okay, let us make that upwards of 90%. And in the context of a discussion, the other 5% to 10% is going to be a very enjoyable adventure.

I am confident that some are going to be surprised at how much they enjoy this one. I shall mute my own enthusiasm in order not to ruin that.

Dottie, do not feel singled out. I did not show up at a lot of places where I said I would in those days.

I am long overdue to read House for Mr. Biswas by V. S. Naipaul. Long overdue. So this is a very good list for me personally.

Never fear, Capitu. If you take me by the hand and not leave me behind while we explore Dom Casmurro, I will take you by the hand and not leave you behind as we explore Go Down, Moses. I do not have enough sense to be scared of Faulkner. The Faulkner "novel" is a collection of seven thematically connected short pieces. There are some late sections in "The Bear" that are tough going.

I am with Ruthie. The Sheltering Sky is an excellent selection.

. . . I will take you by the hand and not leave you behind as we explore Go Down, Moses.

I cannot believe my own nerve sometimes.

No, no, no. It was my regular daily shower earlier, Ricki. I do a status check every day in the event that some redneck might ask.

It's the long hair.

Good point on the structure of that sentence as originally wrought, Ricki.

I checked while taking a shower just moment ago and have now reworked it to more accurately reflect the apparent fact of the matter.

I am off to locate some deceased Constant Readers who might be willing to cast a vote or two. I know full well Hanser will do it for me.

I am ever so much, Windfall. You are a clever yet honorable woman who makes restitution without the compulsion of judicial writ. Thank you.

It is, however, a happiness tempered by the fact that I must now sit here on tenterhooks awaiting the vote tally.