Ricki's comments (member since Sep 02, 2007)

Ricki's comments from the Constant Reader group.

Happy Birthday, Ellen.

I hope you have a great year.

Joe,

You can read John Crace's The Digested Read columns (and past columns) on The Guardian website.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/series/d...

I've often mentioned the columns on here and am so glad that you have found out about Crace.

I'd suggest you look at past Nobel winners for some non-American literary authors and then at some of the authors who have won prestigious prizes around the world. Rushdie,and Lessing also spring to mind as additions to the ones that have already been mentioned.

Joe,

Are we concentrating on modern 'literary' writers or also past ones?
By the way, I'd term literary fiction to be well-written and showing a good mastery of descriptive language both of people and places, good characterisation, and with a wide range of effective sentence structure and grammar. It's what I would have termed 'good writing.' But that's what I'd say and I know that I don't always express my thoughts well. I just know a good or great book when I see it and can happily throw out those that I find lacking.

Interesting Whitaker,

I like reading the books of other cultures because they help me to understand the viewpoints (and I emphasis the 's' because no culture has one distinctive viewpoint) by which its participants (citizens?) construct and deconstruct their world. But for me, the joy of this book was that it seemed real. There is no plot to most of our lives, things unfold, we deal with them, we go on and we reflect and eventually, if we are lucky enough to be reflective people, we learn more about ourselves, our lives, the people who touch us. If we're not reflective, we just continue experiencing whatever comes to us. And yes, most western books force us to see a plot that overlies the contents of the lives that the books cover. For me it is perhaps Western literature, in general, as there are exceptions, that gives us a somewhat distorted view of what life is about, that has us hurrying from one plot-filled novel to the next, speed-reading on the way. Long may books last that enable me to slowly mull over their contents.

Capitu,

What a lovely post and thank you for expressing your joy at the arrival and planting of your trees. I do think that your description of that links well to the book and the 'feelings' it evokes.

From what we have read over here, the perpetrator of this crime was shown as having a severe mental illness. I'd like to know whether he has been portrayed as such in the States and if so, do you think that someone who is mentally ill is as responsible for his actions as someone who is deemed to be 'sane' (whilst I freely admit that I feel that anyone who commits a murder has to be 'insane' at least for the moments before the murder).

Also, in thinking of ways to avoid these killing sprees, I'm at a loss as to why there isn't an outcry from a wider portion of the populace by now for stricter gun control. Do you think that the possibility of controlling the acquisition of guns has become impossible or well-nigh impossible at the moment?

Do please realise, I'm not criticising, I'm just curious and I'm also going to apologise that I shall read your responses later tomorrow as I've got to go off-line now.

Happy Birthdday Mina,

Sorry it's a belated wish but I hope your health continues to improve and that you have a really good year.

This has been such an interesting discussion and I'm grateful to all the participants who have treated each other's sometimes divergent opinions with respect. I think you all know I live in England but didn't move here until my mid-20's. As an American I abhorred the death penalty and I still do but I'm interested in all the reasons people hold their opinions. And, you are right, in a democratic country the majority opinion rules and that opinion changes. Am I right in thinking that there are some states that no longer have the death penalty or is there a common policy now across the states? Do states vote on whether they want the death penalty? Sorry, I haven't kept up with this at all.

Happy Birthday David - I hope your birthday on the 8th is a happy one.

Hello Writer and Reader,

You also asked about topics moving up and down the board - we have a facility to keep certain topics on the board - for example, the Reading List or the Voting is kept for the duration since it is something that someone may want to refer to easily or that we would like new people to be able to see. Other topics can float as and when they are current. However, if you look for the button underthe bos 'search discussion posts' on the right of your screen you will see a place where you can click on 'unread topics' and that will bring up any that you have not read whether they are current or not. Hope that helps.

Kawabata, I think, developed Shingo into a character with far more awareness of the emotional and social side of his family life by the end of the novel; the fact that he develops is certainly positive for him no matter whether his feelings about the changes are positive or negative. In a way I feel that the ending was more about the changes in Japanese society than the mere changes in Shingo and the ending shows a going forward in society. Maybe this reflects the going forward into infinity for Shingo, maybe Shingo simply represents the old getting to grips with change. I'm not really sure but I wouldn't say that there is any acceptance of a 'slide into death' - it didn't seem that pessimistic, just reality getting in the way of the ideal. But I'm probably wrong!

I always keep in mind, when reading these lists, that Publishers Weekly is keen to sell books. Cynical old me.

More - I can't remember whether a link to the whole of his Nobel acceptance speech has been posted but here it is. It does extend understanding both of Japanese literature and Kawabata's thoughts. Hope it's useful

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/liter...

There's also a comment posted by 'Elizabeth' on this site about Sound of the Mountain - probably worth reading also - this one's short
http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index....

And there I will stop.

Kenneth,
I think you're right about looking at the naturalist orientation of the writing. It is highly symbolic. I've also looked up some japanese use of the images -

Hi = Sun, Sunshine, Sunlight, Sunbeams.
Mawari = Turn around, Rotate, Revolve, (= Mawa(-ru))

There are some bits on the net that refer to images in various poets and I think they can be useful - this refers to Basho but there are references to Chrysanthemums, pampas grass or the Japanese equivalent, etc.
http://www.uwosh.edu/faculty_staff/barnh...

I think this paper on Kawabata, if you can read to the end, is really useful as it also discusses the influence of Zen on his writing.-

http://dlwww.dl.saga-u.ac.jp/contents/mg...

I'll keep looking for more interesting bits. There seem to be lots out there.

Kenneth,

I agree wholeheartedly with your idea of the everyday poetry and beauty. Not sure about the author being depressed though but rather that he has the ability to create rather deep characters - whether it be Shingo, Fusako, Kikuko. Maybe that comes from a deeper contemplation of the varieties of human nature, maybe, on the other hand, it does come from some sense of depression. I find this type of writing very Japanese though, so perhaps its something within the culture.

I'm not sure whether the marriage was saved at the end. Remember, Kikuko talks about working in the shop with Fusako - that indicates her gaining some independence from her husband. She also admits that she is frightened of him at times. These both are uncannily like the statements/actions of his ex-mistress who chose to distance herself from him.

Capitu - thanks for pointing out Shingo's dream about the abortion.

Back to Whitaker/s post -

'Just what is going on between Shingo and Kikuko? Is it a dirty old man thing: lusting after his daughter-in-law? Or is it more spiritual: a common love for beauty in nature? '

Anyway - Shingo was attracted by beauty. He does rather dwell on his wife's beautiful sister and also the unattractiveness of his children/grandchildren. Since Shingo is so interested in beauty and since his children seem not to be so, does that mean that Shingo was, a rather plain, or in his eyes, perhaps ugly, man looking for something that he could not achieve? Was looking for a beauty that he did not think he had? Was looking for something ideal? Or was beauty something that he just appreciated? Was Kikuko his old-age equivalent of the sister. Does beauty represent 'good' in the story?

I don't think, Whitaker, that he has 'laid to rest' his infatuation with Yasuko's sister (the ideal)- I think he has just transferred this onto Kikuko.

Mary Jo,

I'm so sorry I missed your birthday yesterday. I hope you incorporated both a Happy Birthday and a Happy Halloween into one!

I think that one of Kawabata's strengths, not mentioned above, is the way in which he unfolds his characters and plots during the novel. It's almost like the image of 'unpeeling the onion' or, even better, the way most of us learn about our friends as friendship progresses. It seemed real, yet gentle and beautifully crafted.

As for Shingo and Kikuko - is it not both and perhaps also a remembrance of his youth, the parts of his life that he is both missing and also saying goodbye to as he ages? Or again, perhaps it refers to the youth that is incorporated in old age.

I can see why the Nobel committee put this in the realm of traditional Japanese literature as, if you compare the content and style to those modernists as Mishima and Tanizaki, Kawabata is of quite a different ilk.

Sounds Good Suzanne, I must look it up.