RandomAnthony's comments

RandomAnthony's comments from the True North group.

Note: RandomAnthony is no longer a member of this group.

And post 82 is as a good a reason as any to leave...

Fair enough. I apologize, Abigail.

(Not to you, though, Jacks, Ms. Get in the Last Word...:)

(Let it also be known that I only have energy for one conversation like this a week or so, ok? So, Abigail, if you want to fight, can we, say, schedule something for Thursday the 10th?)

You know, I just noticed Abigail totally insulted Jackie by calling me a bully, by the way...everyone knows Jackie can defend herself. And after Abigail whines about attacks she calls me a bully. Riiighht. Maybe people shouldn't speak until they understand the context. But that never stopped Abigail, apparently...maybe I, ahem, pushed a button. But I don't want to sound like too much of a prick, to be fair. I think Abigail was trying to help out her friend without knowing Jackie and I talk pretty much every day.

Sorry. Buddhism failed me that time and wanting to say that won out. I will complete penance soon. I expect people to return to the slinky talk. I would.

Man, I just read my comments, and I thought I was pretty calm and reasonable until Abigail chimed in...heh.

Abigail? I'm gonna take a deep breath and practice all that Buddhist stuff I read about. So thank you for the opportunity.

Whatever, Abigail. Thanks. You're a good motivator.

I think Lori is trying to get us to stop. Points for Lori.

You're the coolest, Jacks. I mean that.

Saying "I guess I pushed some buttons" is insulting, Jackie. It implies that I'm out of control because my button has been "pushed". It's passive aggressive.

I'm not talking about health care here. I'm talking about rhetoric and the way you frame conservative politics and, honestly, my frustrations with (and this is not you in particular, Jackie) liberal adherents take on this holier-than-thou (and these are my generalizations, I'll own that, but I see this behavior as pretty common whenever a political issue emerges here) "we are sooo soooo right and moral...aren't we great people? Aren't we? Let's all hug about how great we are" stance. And some conservatives go that route on the other side, too, of course. But I think spouting off generalizations about ALL conservatives, etc. or their motivations and the like keeps people from asking questions of each other...like..."what is it that scares liberals about this?" and "why are conservatives so worried about personal liberty?" and "where do we agree?" I'm so sick of hearing the "ooh...those big bad Republicans..." bullshit. Those are people, and not all are rich, and a lot of conservatives are smart and take their perceptions of personal liberty seriously. I respect that. Why is that so hard? Have some respect for people who disagree with you.

I know why - the health care industry doesn't want ANY change, because there's huge amounts of money at stake. The industry will say anything to keep their profitable business. And the conservatives appear to be on the side of business, more than the side of people.

These are facts, Jackie? C'mon.

I'd like to be done with this. But, like Scarface, I keep gettin' pulled back in...

No, honestly, Jacks, that's why I said "we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one." Because your broad generalizations are so...unreasonable...to me that I don't see the point. Blanket talk about how the people have to fight business and no one's lookin' out for the little guy and every conservative is benefiting from big money hospitals or whatever...it's just nonsense to me. And I'm not going to engage in rhetoric based on nonsense. Millions of conservative people in America probably disagree with you on health care. That doesn't mean they're evil and stupid and their representatives are working against them or they're not moral. It means they have a different perspective than you. One side doesn't have the monopoly on answers. And the other side deserves respect as well. It's not here. That was my original point, and I'll end with it.

No, I don't have any particular stake here. I just want to see fairness, and not broad generalizations, apply to both liberals and conservatives. End of story. I'm done here. To call me defensive because I disagree with you is just shitty. I could have easily called you the same, but I chose not to go that route.

Oh, man, Jacks, you and I are just going to have to disagree on this one. I could pick apart all these generalizations, but you seem set on this one. I still love you.

I'm not even talking about health care reform at this point...you seem to be taking the position that since, in your eyes, people who disagree with you are not engaging in the process in a way that pleases you that they are not worthy of even being considered human. And what about the millions of "people" who support conservative causes and agree with the conservative approach to business and health care? Are they not people? What if they want their representatives to do something other than you? Are they working against themselves? Or are they not people, too, because they disagree with you? It sounds like because some conservatives disagree with you, you can make a lot of generalizations.

I don't think it's fair, and I don't think it's helpful to the conversation/solution.

And the conservatives appear to be on the side of business, more than the side of people.

Jacks, how can conservatives not be on the side of the people and still be people, too? Wouldn't it be illogical for conservatives to be 1) people, and 2) not on the side of the people?

I know why - the health care industry doesn't want ANY change, because there's huge amounts of money at stake. The industry will say anything to keep their profitable business. And the conservatives appear to be on the side of business, more than the side of people.

Wow. Jacks, that is a HUGE blanket statement. All the people want the same thing? They're all on one side, and the conservatives (who apparently aren't people, or at least aren't on the side of people, even if they are people, and businesses are something other than people, too) are all thinking the exact same way on this? And the health care people had a secret meeting, too, and said we don't want any change at all, keep it quiet, it's all about the money?

I love you, Jacks, but I don't think statements that characterize entire groups like that are fair.

When conservatives are characterized as something other than "people", well...

Well, again, I don't think the speaker Sherri cited is representative of conservative thought. It's one easily quoted example about which Obama supporters can get riled. I'm sure people in the far left said something pretty crazy things about Bush, too.

I hope when these conversations emerge we can avoid going to the "Obama good Republicans bad" assumptions. I know we're smart people. Let's keep talking like it:)

Buns is right, past presidents have talked on the radio, etc. Apparently (I'm not sure of all the details, so I have to be careful here) Bush gave a similar "study hard" speech at a junior high school that was broadcast over the radio to students. Here's what two Democratic politicians said at the time:

"The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students," House Majority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) said. "And the president should be doing more about education than saying, 'Lights, camera, action.' "

and

Rep. Patricia Schroeder (D-Colo.), chairwoman of the Select Committee on Children, Youth and Families, said it was outrageous for the White House to "start using precious dollars for campaigns" when "we are struggling for every silly dime we can get" for education programs."

So...assuming the details are similar...Bush should have been able to fulfill that role as a President, too, right? And the two Dems shouldn't have criticized him?

If we're going to be fair and issues-based, then it's got to go both ways, as far as I'm concerned...

I think the difference here, Sherri, is that Obama is going to talk to every kid at the same time through a monitor (assuming all the schools agree and have the facilities). That's a bit different. I'm sure not every conservative would use rhetoric as severe as that Florida guy, but I'm sure people will be watching for the nature of Obama's message on both sides. This is a non-controversy, as far as I'm concerned, at the moment...let's see what happens, you know?

I think one of the problems here, honestly, is that from what I understand word leaked that Obama was going to talk to the students but it wasn't clear, early on, what the topics would be. If all he's going to say is "stay in school", etc. then I doubt much of a controversy will emerge. For this, anyway.