Maggie's comments

Maggie's comments from the YA Book Club group.

Note: Maggie is no longer a member of this group.

Heather wrote: "My question about Sam and Shelby should have an answer, if not in the book, then on this thread"

Well, but I did answer the plot question, though -- I didn't mean by my other comment that there wasn't a reason for Sam's shifting -- I mentioned he was expressly CALLED the best of the pack by Beck for that very reason, by being able to get a grip on his more human emotions, like not NOM NOM NOMing on a little girl, and it's sort of a key point of the book, actually. But I did mean that in my reading experience that plot questions like that often mean that the book didn't grab you for another reason as well. Not that the author didn't/ shouldn't be able to explain themselves as well.

Also, Corie, please don't apologize, your comment was really balanced I thought. I think a critical review that sees positive is worth more than one that just goes YAY OMG THIS BOOK IS AWESOME.

Anyway, this has been a sort of very odd thread for me to participate in; normally I don't feel in public chats like I'm defending my book -- I don't think you can change someone's mind about whether they love a book by explaining plot logic. I think it's probably best I duck out now as I've got a waiting list for bookchats with readers who HAVE loved it (again it's subjective, I really don't mind that you guys didn't). But it's really more fair if I spend time with those readers.

Heather wrote: "Maggie wrote: "Heather wrote: "I have another question, so Sam is transfixed by Grace cause he recognizes her in the book shop and thinks about her all the time, but later when he is talking to her..."

I can see why you would say this, but the whole point to Sam was what Beck said -- that he was the "best of the pack" -- in that he managed to retain a shred of his humanity as a wolf when the others didn't.

And the fact is that I could defend the logic of it all day long, but I think what you're really responding to is the characters -- you didn't connect with them. Because if you connect with the characters/ somehow connect with the book, you tend not to pick at the plot as much -- like I loved THE TIME TRAVELER'S WIFE, which is full of plot inconsistencies and elements I didn't love . . . but my mind helpfully jumps over them.

Anyway, reading's very subjective! I'm sorry y'all didn't connect with Shiver, but I hope you love next month's selection!

Heather wrote: "I have another question, so Sam is transfixed by Grace cause he recognizes her in the book shop and thinks about her all the time, but later when he is talking to her, he admits that wolves don't t..."

Oh, no, Sam is not transfixed by her smell . . .that would be a weird an unsustainable basis for a relationship. What if she changed shampoos? It's just that as they shift back and forth, there are very few concepts that translate between wolf and human. So while he can call her Grace as a human, when he's a wolf, the concept of names for identity is useless -- all he's got is her scent as an identifier, something which carries over to when he's human, even in between, when his brain is "coming back."

For me I think Sam's crush (and it is only a crush until he actually meets her) starts when he rescues her, and then is just vaguely remembered when he is a wolf. And for Grace, repressed memories of him shifting to human to save her let her know, somewhere in the back of her mind forever, that this wolf that she watches is not just a wolf. Does that answer the question?

Heather wrote: "Maggie, I notice that in Lament, both your main characters and most of your minor characters are musically inclined, and once again in Shiver, you have a main character who is musically inclined, i..."

Just grabbing a few moments before my laptop battery dies -- I'm in between London events and about to rush back out again! I always say that one day I will write a book without at least one musician character, but . . . it is not that day yet. I play several instruments as does everyone in my family, and I had bands all through college, so it's sort of second nature to me. It seems stranger not to want to play than it does to play. Music plays an even bigger role in Linger, too!

Angie wrote: "I am also wondering Maggie what is it like to write two books at once? Do you enjoy writing one series more then the other? "

And ha! They both scratch different itches. My Lament/ Ballad series is the action-packed, fun series to write -- I can just kick back and have fun. And then Shiver/ Linger/ Forever -- they're hard. I have to go slowly, because they're books to be read slowly, and really make sure that every gesture is subtle and realistic. So it's nice to switch off from one to the other.

Well, I was 16, so my parents actually had to give me permission to change my name AND help me with the legal paperwork, so no, they weren't offended. My mother never liked her first name and went by a nick name, so she completely understood -- there was a never a question that I couldn't do it. They had actually changed their idea of what to call my sister once she was born because she didn't look like the name they'd picked, and this was sort of the same thing. . . only it took me 16 years to not look like my name. So not rude and childish. Imo.

With Sam, it was the same issue. Only he was a static character that came out of my head, not a child that was choosing his own identity. The character I wanted to convey to readers was someone named Sam -- the impression that that name conveyed, not any other. When you're reading the book, the first impression you get of the character is what the name LOOKS like (unless you're listening to the audio book). So I really do think name choice is important. Readers will be seeing that name more often than any other word in the novel.

I have a small consultation role if it gets made (notice the "if" --- an option is just the first step, they have 18 months to line up director, actors, screenwriters, etc.). But I won't have the Phenomenal Cosmic Power that, say, J. K. Rowling or Stephenie Meyer had.

Angie asked if I could pop into some of the discussions if I had a chance. I'm going to be in and out because of being of the UK tour this week, but I'm around.

Thank you! The companion novel to Lament, Ballad, came out yesterday, and I'm excited about that one too -- I wrote it after Shiver and learned a lot since then. :D

This is true! I get a ton of book recommendations from Goodreads and am on it every day!

I just realized that by accident I'm reading the book club pick here -- I picked up a copy at the Strand Bookstore (which was amazing, if you're ever in NYC . .. go!) when my editor took me there.

Anyway, I've just started it yesterday and I'm grabbing bits of it when I can between deadlines for my next novel. I love the prose style and the pacing, so far, is really appealing. I'm keen to see where it goes.

I had to chip in here because I've had this discussion with all my editors before (I have three -- one at Flux, Andrew Karre, and two at Scholastic, Abby Ranger and David Levithan). The general consensus is that YA protags, like C. Leigh said, are slightly older than their readers, but not old enough to go to college.

I had a big debate with one of my editors because I really wanted an 18 year old protagonist and he said that in that context, teens would never read it and relate (something I disagree with still)(because I completely would've loved a window into the freshman college experience when I was a teen). But generally the age seems to be 14-18. Any younger and I really think that you're in Middle-Grade territory.

Maggie

I agree with Sandi - CORALINE seemed MG to me, and that's where I've seen it shelved, too.

But I do disagree about the sex scene being necessary. The only thing it explained was where baby Tristan come from . . . and we could've figured that out I think. :D

This is actually a hot-button issue for me as I thought that neither Coraline nor Stardust were easily categorized as YA novels, so I thought it was weird that they were 1/6th of what the YA Book Club was reading this year!

This is why I disagree. A YA novel is supposed to have, at its heart, two things.

1) A YA aged protagonist
AND
2) A character arc specific to the teen years showing how the teen is changing/ growing up/ coming to grips with himself/ life, etc.

It also tends to be very zoomed in in its focus, looking at the emotions of just one or two people, often in 1st person because of that, but that's not necessary.

Then you can hang all sorts of other story trappings around the two basic tenants to make it a sci-fi, fantasy, romance, contemporary, whatever.

But my major nit with this is that if you took Tristan and called him 26 instead of a teen, the story wouldn't be changed at all. There's nothing in this plot REALLY that makes it YA, once he crosses the Wall. Yes, he changes and discovers he loves someone else, etc., but a changing character is a fixture in all good fiction, regardless of the age group.

Also, the casual f-bombs and sex scenes really feel more adult to me. Not saying that there are not f-bombs and sex in YA -- there are -- but in YA, they're only put in when absolutely necessary to further the plot. The sex scene in the first part of the book was totally gratuitous -- nothing happened DURING it that furthered the plot, so in a typical YA, they would've faded to black and caught us up later to the dangers of not using fey protection in heated moments.

Sandi, I like your point about the "going against the natural progression of life." It reminds me of an anthropology professor I had who told us about an African culture where people don't stand in lines to wait their turn. He said we Americans take it for granted that the person who gets in line first gets served first, that that's "fair." But this culture served the people they knew best first. So families got served first, then friends, then strangers -- and to them, that was "fair."

Anyway, long way to say that I think the witches' desire to stay young, especially at the expense of another life, seems "unfair." Like they're cutting in line, or getting back in line again.

And Angie, I love to think of stories from the villains' points of view too! So many of the fairy tales we love could be told with an equally sympathetic protagonist if you just swap the princess to the villain.

When we first meet the witch-women, they're essentially pursuing the same thing as Tristan: their hearts' desire. Initially, of course, Tristan's heart's desire is a flippant thing: he wants the affections of a beautiful girl who doesn't care for him. And of course the witches' desire is no more noble: they want to catch a falling star in order to remain young forever.

What devices does Gaiman employ to make sure we sympathize with the "good" guys? Do you think this book could've been written from a sympathetic witches' point of view?

Particularly in his novellas, like this one and Coraline, Neil Gaiman has a very British and very old fairy-tale method of telling the story. It's very . . . quaint.

As an author myself, I find there are pluses and minuses to this style. On the one hand, it's very timeless, and appeals to a wide age-range (which is why I asked earlier where readers had found this shelved). On the other hand, I feel like it sometimes distances the readers from the characters (who are often stylized in fairy tales).

So as a reader, do you feel like you connected emotionally with the characters in Stardust? How did the style strike you? Quaint? Timeless? Affected? Magical?

I have yet to finish the book but I really liked the movie, for the record.

I have to confess that because of editorial revisions for my own novels, I didn't finish reading it this week like I hoped to, so I'll be reading it along with the rest of you. I've seen the movie, though, so I'm curious to see how it deviates!

So who's reading it this month with us?

And -- did you find it shelved in YA or adult at your local library or bookstore?

I'm revoltingly excited to be finally holding a finished copy of LAMENT in my hand -- it's a YA about a girl who falls in love with a fairy assassin, only to find out she's supposed to be his next mark. Authors like best-selling Richelle Mead and YA guru Cynthia Leitich Smith have already read and endorsed it (that info's on my site) and it's started getting reviews here too.

Anyway, the official release date is supposed to be Oct. 1st but people have told me that they've gotten emails saying copies they had pre-ordered have shipped -- woohoo. So nerve-wracking! Anyway, if you want to see more about it (please do): my blog post about it is here.

Please check it out and I'll see you guys in the Sept. discussion for STARDUST, which I'll be leading.