Nichole's comments (member since Oct 31, 2008)

Nichole's comments from the Urban Fantasy group.

I think that being bisexual implies that you would be open to the idea of having a sexual relationship with someone of either sex. I think being willing to have a sexual experience with someone of the same gender but only in the context of a threesome that includes someone of the opposite gender does not equal being bisexual. If you would not have a one-on-one encounter with someone of the same sex, then you're not bi.

I don't know if this counts since it's small press, but Jordan Castillo Price writes an awesome paranormal series featuring a gay main character and his boyfriend. The series is called Psycops and it starts with Among the Living. These are independently published e-books, so they're each only about 100 pages until the 5th which is around 300. But you can get them in print as well, they come in pairs. You can buy them on Amazon.
They are sexually graphic, so not for the homosexually squeamish, but soooo good. Seriously.

I nominate The Devil Inside by Jenna Black. Really great UF series about demons in the more traditional (or perhaps a better word would be "religious") sense that they are non-corporeal and must possess human bodies. Some people are willing demon hosts - others, not so willing. This is one of my favorite series but it doesn't seem to be getting much attention so I thought I'd nominate for a group read!

Oh yeah, Bones is totally Spike only better. If that was possible.

I've only see the first four or five episodes, but he definitely had a relationship with a woman back in the 40s who he continued to watch over until she was old and died.
So I think it's pretty clear he's bi, not just gay, but from what I hear he focuses on men more than women in the series. Which to be honest is what tipped the scale for me - I was intrigued by the series, but it wasn't until I heard there were gay themes that I went out and got the first season.

I thought Captain Jack was bi?

I was really starting to enjoy it, but had to return it to the library before I had finished. I couldn't renew because someone else had it on hold. I'm gonna get back to it someday!

Who would you guys choose:
Captain Jack Harkness, or Captain Jack Sparrow?

Does anyone watch Torchwood? It's a British Sci-fi show, a spin-off of Dr. Who. I've never seen Dr. Who, but I got the first season of Torchwood from the library recently and started watching it. Just wondering if anyone else likes it or has an opinion. It's taking a little time to get used to the British style. It all feels like Red Dwarf to me so I have a hard time taking it seriously.

I wasn't trying to get you to agree with me, I just wasn't sure you understood what I was saying. It seemed like you thought I was arguing about the use of third person limited as a writing technique, or that I wished every book was in first person, and that wasn't what I was trying to say. I was just talking about my experience with this book specifically.
If you did not have that experience with it, then of course you wouldn't share my opinion. I just wanted to make sure that what I was saying was clear. I enjoy debating and defending my position, and my goal isn't necessarily to get people to change their minds (well, sometimes it is ;), but more just to have my view point understood and acknowledged.

Alison wrote: "The Harry Potter series is limited third person. You can count the non-Harry pov scenes on your fingers.

I don't like first person because it sounds like bragging, if that makes any sense. I ..."

But I never had a problem reading the Harry Potter series. I didn't get jerked out of the story every time Rowling wrote "Harry sat in the chair." There's a difference between writing in the limited third person and writing in first person with the pronouns changed. I'm not saying I wish every book was in first person. I'm just saying this particular one messed with my mind. It read so much like a first person book that every time she said "Claire walked up the stairs" I had this brief "Wait, who's Claire?" moment and then I said "Oh yeah, this book is in third person."

I totally see your points about the benefit of third person, although I don't personally have a preference either way. I just don't think those things apply in this case. You say you don't like first person, but in my opinion this book was in first person. When she described Claire, to me it felt like Claire was describing herself.

So I'm not saying I wish she'd written it in first person just because I like that better - I don't, I honestly don't care. It's just that the way she wrote this specific book kept throwing me off.

Alison wrote: Plus, with third person it gives the author the opportunity to use other view points should they so choose.

I also think that the author has a chance to tell us more about the character through things that the character may not see in themselves."

....But she didn't. She wrote it completely from Claire's point of view, with Claire's thoughts and no one else's. We don't get to see Claire through anyone else's eyes. She didn't give any objective information in this book about anything; everything we find out is only as Claire does. We're not watching this story as an objective party, it's all entirely from Claire's perspective.
Basically, this book is in first person. It's almost like she wrote it in first person and then went through and changed the pronouns. I've never read a third person book quite like this - it really does catch me off guard almost every time.

Melodie wrote: "Nichole wrote: "Man, this book is just one big Coke ad! I'm seven days Coke free..."

Wish I was! I'm a Coke-a-holic. If I could ditch the stuff I could lose weight!
"

Do it! It's so worth it. I've never noticed a significant weight loss when I quit coke, but it's definitely a key factor to weight loss, and it will make you feel so much better in other ways. I sleep a lot better and just feel healthier overall.
It is really hard, though. I've quit Coke too many times to count. I once lasted 7 or 8 months with no soda, but then it suddenly creeps its way back in until I'm drinking a giant Coke every day.
I think cold turkey is best - once I've gone two days without Coke, I'm pretty much home free and it's not as hard to resist anymore. But I've also used diet sodas as a stepping stone. Diet Coke is nasty, but Diet Pepsi and Diet Dr. Pepper are alright. They're not as good as Coke, but they can calm that craving for carbonation. I don't recommend replacing one bad habit with another (diet sodas are just as bad for you) but I can kind of use them as sort of a "nicotine patch".

Anyway... back to the book. ;)

I am wishing she would have written this book in first person. She practically did anyway, it totally reads that way, and then it will say "she did this" and it totally surprises me every time. I have to say "oh yeah, this is in third person." If she was going to write it in such a first person way, she just should have gone ahead and done it. It keeps jerking me out of the story.

Man, this book is just one big Coke ad! I'm seven days Coke free...

Reading Embrace the Night by Karen Chance. I was pretty lukewarm toward Touch the Dark, and found that Claimed by Shadow was a pleasant surprise. I enjoyed it a lot, and so far Embrace the Night has been just as good. Cassie went from a rather bland UF heroine to a really engaging one, and I love me some Pritkin...

I also started Glass Houses tonight for the group read. Too soon to form an opinion, but I'm looking forward to it.

I somehow missed that this was the group read this month, but I have my copy now and started it tonight! I'm excited to read it with everyone.

Jessica, can't you get the books from the other branches? The library system I use has several branches, but you can check out books from any branch and return them to any branch. So I just go online, find the books I want, and put them on hold. Then the library will deliver the book to the branch I want to pick it up at, and I just go get it - it's on a little shelf with my name right on it!
I can concede, though, that I am very lucky to have a really great library system. There's rarely a book that I can't find there. Or dvd - I can get a lot of BBC stuff that I wouldn't know how to get access to otherwise.

My super long post/doctoral thesis, part two:

The age thing. It kind of surprises me that people are so bothered by the age difference. I really liked it. Older men with younger women is so common, I think it’s fun when things are the other way around. And it wasn’t like Heather was 40 and Dante was 18. I’m a little burned out on vampire novels where 1000 year old guys end up with 24 year old women. I really liked that Dante was young. It was new and refreshing.
I also think it was necessary. Seems like everyone agrees that Heather’s character wouldn’t have worked if she were any younger, but I don’t think Dante’s character would have worked if he had been any older. I think his immaturity was the point. He’s young, and he’s drifting and he’s not in control of his life, really. Yeah, he has his band and his club, but he’s been relying on Lucien (and, to some extent, Von) for a lot of that. He’s just been too emotionally scarred to really be able to function normally, and I just don’t know if that would have worked if he’d been Heather’s age. I also don’t know if that would have been realistic, to still be that in the dark about his past at that age. 23 is young, it’s still kind of an age of discovery. I think if he had been any older, we would have expected him to be more in control. I also don’t know that it would have made as much sense with his image, as far as the young, beautiful rock star.

What Alison said about having an older, more seasoned but still broken Dante… that just would have been a completely different character and one I think we’ve seen multitudes of times before. It would have been Z from Black Dagger, or Zarek from Dark Hunters (or so I hear, I haven’t actually read that) or any number of other 30-something, tortured vamp heroes. (And yes, I realize those examples are not actually in their 30s, they’re more like in their hundreds, but let’s face it. Someone that old would not act like anyone we’ve ever met before. They are essentially and for my purposes in their 30s.) Dante’s youth is what makes him stand out from the crowd, it’s what makes him so vital and so compelling.
I guess a lot of people see him as a stereotypical “bad boy”, the motorcycle riding guy in leather that you don’t take home to mom, and they don’t find that attractive. I don’t really see that. I see a young, confused and vulnerable boy trying to be a man, but he doesn’t have anything to build on. He has basically no memory of where he came from, and he’s struggling to hold his life together with no foundation. I think it’s amazing he got as far as he did, and it would be unrealistic for him to have any semblance of sanity or ability to function in the real world if he were any older, without having had any kind of outside assistance. I think he would have fallen apart by age 30, and the only reason he has a chance now is because of Heather.

Phew! Sorry, guys. I have never written a post any where near that long before. Holy cow.

Okay, I wrote this post out in Word first so if my internet explorer decided to crash I wouldn’t have to kill anyone. :) This turned out really long, so I think I’ll split it into two posts. Hope everybody’s ready!

I’ll start by saying I really, really, really loved this book and wouldn’t change a single thing about it. For me it was perfect. However, I do see most of the points that everyone has made. I agree with some and disagree with others. Alright, here we go.

1. Yes, the setting is vaguely futuristic. In this book, it’s really just those few mentions of credit sticks or whatever. In the next book there are a few more little details to help set it in the future. For example, Heather is looking at an old photo of her parents from before she was even born, and Phoenix mentions their “neo-90’s” haircuts. In another place, someone at the club is wearing a “vintage” TV on the Radio t-shirt. (For those who don’t know, TV on the Radio is a contemporary indie band. I think their first album came out 2 or 3 years ago, so they’re definitely not ‘vintage’ yet.)

I really love the way she set it in the future but wasn’t super obvious about it. I think the fact that the world is just a teeny bit different from ours really adds to the dark and mysterious tone. I really liked that she never comes out and says what year it is, it’s just sort of a vague feeling of ‘other-ness.’ And the way she did it so subtly makes it so it doesn’t detract from the story. I’ve read more than one really good urban fantasy book that could have been great had it not gotten so bogged down in its own world building. (For example, Magic Bites or Working for the Devil.)

2. Alison – I read your opinion of Heather and thought, “Hmm. She’s right.” Heather wasn’t really as developed as she could have been. Normally I really hate poorly developed characters. In this case it didn’t bother me. I don’t know why, but it could have been because there were sooo many other things going on, there just wasn’t really time for that. Also, I think this book is a little bit more about Dante than it is about Heather or even their relationship. It’s not as important to dig into her psyche since we’re getting so much about Dante, though I agree that it would be nice to develop her character a little bit further.

Same with the sex scene. When you mentioned that it seemed like it wouldn’t have realistically happened at that point in the story, you’re totally right. Again, I didn’t notice that while reading, probably because I was so ready for it, lol. But you’re totally right – it was too soon and didn’t quite make sense with the timeline and Heather’s character. However, it really did need to happen at some point, or some of us would have thrown our books across the room, so I can forgive her for that as well. I don’t really know when else she could have done it without having to put it off until a later book.

I was halfway through a very long post responding to Alison's post, and then internet explorer crashed. GRRR!!!!
I lost my oomph and had no desire to retype everything.

But Alison, I really liked your post. I've been wanting to really get into a good discussion about this book! Kieraanne, I appreciate your post as well. I like to read (substantiated) dissenting opinions about things I like. I enjoy a good natured debate. Hopefully I'll recharge and be able to respond to both of your comments tomorrow.

Gasp!
I don't even know how to respond, Nia! :)
I read this book back in February, and would LOVE to read it again, though I don't know if I'll get to it this month. But I'm excited to join in the conversation.

My guess, Nia, is that if you're not hooked now, you probably won't be. I absolutely could not put this book down, and then immediately went out and bought the sequel.

I love the dark tone. This book is just so beautifully atmospheric. Hearbreakingly so.