Tera's comments (member since Feb 14, 2008)

Tera's comments from the Chicks On Lit group.

Thanks Sheila,
That's correct. At the bottom of the home page is a poll that you can vote on. The poll closes the end of the week so make your choice and go there to vote as votes cast here wont be counted in that total.

I think you see what they feel by what they do as with most people. I think that makes for a much more interesting story than if the author were to tell us so much detail it left no room for interpertation.

Okay I'm going to respond and hope not to give anything away.
There are definate lines drawn between cain and able and both sets of brothers. I think however, that Steinbeck wanted to provoke a bit more out of his reader. I think it kinda goes back to the discussion Elizabeth and I were having with the good vs evil but more about the choice to be good or to be evil.
Between charles and adam it almost seems like their early choices were taken away from them. What else was Charles going to be but bitter angry and thus make horrible choices. Yes, they were his fault because he knew better but can part of that be attributed to his father and his upbringing?
I think with with Caleb and Aaron it is another example of experience, leading to choice leading to good or evil.
Is that clear as mud?
Charles had experiences as a child be them good or mostly tough.
Later in life he had choices to make. He lets his experiences determine his choice more than his knowledge of right and wrong.
Consequently he chose bad or 'evil' paths.
Without giving anything away I think this theme is futher explored with Caleb and Aaron.

Meg, GREAT quote!
I think it applies to people in general though. The greatest terror we all face is not to be loved (by someone somewhere at sometime) and that rejection (or fear or being alone) is the hell we fear.

Greater in children maybe. Certainly a force that guides many or our choices through all ages.

Not as big of a nomination group but nominations are open. Top two vote getters will be January's reads.
The books this time are


The Red Tent
According To Jane
The Girls from Ames A Story of Women and Friendship
Far from the Madding Crowd
More Southern Comfort Southern Comfort 2
Slammerkin
The Secret Life Of CeeCee WilkesThe Little Stranger
What Is the What
Women and Fiction Stories By and About Women
The Little Stranger

I'm starting a thread for this book. Does anyone want to lead this discussion? The one who nominated left the group awhile ago and I don't think they asked anyone to take over. I haven't read the book yet or I would. Otherwise I guess we will just let the discussion flow?

okay my next question has to wait but i want to remember this conversation because i think its a great point.

Elizabeth wrote: "I had some more moments (hours!) involving air travel again yesterday and, while I didn't do any more reading, I did keep thinking about this. With the author's remarks about the strength of the in..."

Thats a good direction Elizabeth but then my question would be are those that seek evil only able to obtain it in evil (not sure thats the right word) but evil'ish ways? Does control equate to sinister methods and means to gain it?

Okay adding a NEW requiremnet to this... If you nominate a book and it wins and THEN you decide to leave CoL you ask someone, or atleast tell me, so a new discussion lead can be found.

Sorry this thread has been late going. I'm over 19 weeks and still yaking (tmi i know sorry).

** First 12 nominations will be up for a vote.

** Please post title AND author, no other info needed.

** NO need for seconding or voting at this point. Once the nominations are in Ill create a poll for voting.

** If you nominate a book and it wins YOU will need to lead the discussion or make arrangements for someone else to do that. PLEASE keep that in mind when you nominate a book and remember this is for January.

** Top two vote getters will be our books for January.

Just got back from ultrasound and it's a girl!!! Everything looks good. He said he's 80% sure its a girl but sometimes they cough and little boy parts come out. He was great and older and seemed to know what he was doing so we are going with girl unless she gets a cough ;).

I don't know that it has much to do with how much they got out and saw other people. I think if you keep in mind the time and the fact that they were farmers that wasn't terribly uncommon. I think of those early settlers and they would have a plot of land without a neighbor for miles and miles. That was pretty common. (Likely the reason why most women died in childbirth, hysteria was applied only to women and so on and so forth) I don't think it's an uncommon situation for farm families (of that era) to be far removed from society.
Clearly there was brotherly rivalry and unresolved issues from their childhood and their dad that I think was more a part of why they couldn't live together for long. Not to mention the whole 'my brother tried to bludgeon me to death' thing that might be hard to get over.
I don't know that I couldn't live in a much more seculded enviroment with my husband than I do now. I think that if you both have interests that the other respects and encourages that you can escape into when you've seen his face just one minute too much it could be done. Maybe not the easiest thing but I think do able. If he can escape to the garage to work on ... whatever he works on there. If I can escape to my books or creative outlet then we come together much better afterwards.

I think youll be pleasantly surprised at how well it all weaves together beautifully. It really is part of what I think makes this book so amazing is Steinbecks ability to juggle these balls but not drop story, interest or purpose.

Elizabeth wrote: "Finished the 10 chapters last night - got to Cathy, Tera. The beginning of Chapter 8 is where Steinbeck speaks his mind on this very issue. I was shaking my head and even said out loud once, "you'r..."

lol I can totally see you doing that too. Again, I'm not sure I agree people are born evil but I do think there are people that make evil choices knowing full well the consquences and no horrible childhood to blame it on as an excuse as to why they did it. To that extent I agree with him that some people are just bad without regard and thus without redemption.

Dang it sorry! I'm shutting up for awhile now.

But then there's Cathy. She was raised by loving parents and is maybe the worst of all.

Elizabeth wrote: "I can expand my explanation in this way: I also don't believe that anyone is completely good, as in perfect. If no one is completely perfect, then it is also logical that no one is completely imper..."

I can totally follow and respect that.
I dont know that I believe people are born evil in the way that is suggested. I do think that peole make bad horrible choices knowing full well the consequences and the better choice. That is how I applied evil in this discussion.

I guess what I'm not saying well is I know that some people and situations are influenced by their upbringing or enviroment and that can lead to consquences they wouldn't have chosen given a better enviroment but on the other hand I think there are those that have all the knowledge of their choice and don't have to make it but still do knowing the result will hurt others and they simply don't care about those that could be hurt nor the consequences that may fall them.

Elizabeth wrote: "I won't dispute that authors write as if there is pure evil. I just don't subscribe to the theory."

Really? Not being snarky or picking a fight but really interested in that statement. I think there are examples in history of pure evil. I think Hitler is a prime example. I look at those that hurt and abuse children and I just cant think of one redeemable thing about them. I find them to be total evil, maybe they helped an old lady across the street once or cuddled a teddy bear at one time but I think evil is just who they are.

trying hard not to give too much away to support my thoughts but I do think that there is complete evil, perhaps redemption is possible but acts and people can be purely evil with full knowledge of their choice.

I don't think it has anything to do with enviroment. I think that is what steinbeck was trying to say that there is sometimes just plain old evil out there no matter what we do it exists.

He says this...

"I believe there are monsters born in the world to human parents. . . . The face and body may be perfect, but if a twisted gene or a malformed egg can
produce physical monsters, may not the same process produce a malformed soul?"

We all know good parents that end up having a horrible kids. We all know good people that end up having horrible things happen to them. Evil is unavoidable it's how we face it and deal with it that defines us.

You asked for another contrast Rebecca. How about that of love and apathy. I don't mean hate because I think that atleast shows emotion for someone. I don't see love/hate relationships but rather love/apathy with a total disregard of the person and their feelings.

There are also contrast of hard work and path of least resistance. How that defines and shapes a person.

I think the big theme is good vs evil but a layer beyond that is what or how do we define good and evil. Is it always what we think and see or is there more to it? And how when we go from recognizing something as one way and then see it another how it changes who we are and how we view the world.