Sandra's comments (member since Feb 21, 2009)

Sandra's comments from the ¡ POETRY ! group.

I say problematic in that I don't think the intention is to set up the connotation of an Indian drinking. I don't think avoiding that connotation in a poem about paradox is being politically correct. If the intention is to set a contrast to the undertaker, symbolic of the end of life or someone who ushers us out of this life, then I'm not sure how the headdress,a seldom used warbonnet it what usually comes to mind, fits in. I don't think it is just dress up that is being represented. I also don't believe that Jane was being intentionally derogatory. It is not my belief that the writer can't write about the other without paying their dues as that is impossible and would limit what is being written akin to censorship.
To answer you Jim I think I as a reader find it problematic, both as an image that plays with a dangerous stereotype in my mind and as a line I don't think does what it intended. Certainly mine is only one reading and obviously not a popular one.

I can appreciate that, I wouldn't have said anything except that I think its an important issue. I don't think that stanza is the sum total of the poem either, just a choice of image that I disagree with. I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone, just to open up a discussion.

Except that there is not an existing stereotype of the drunken undertaker.

While I like most of the poem, the sixth stanza of Parrot-Ox bothers me greatly. I must be overly sensitive since no one else seems to notice it or find it troublesome. Perhaps I am only feeling more aware of how we handle the "other" after reading "Poetry and Ethics:Writing About Others" in Writer's Chronicle this month which I actually thought was a bit harsh. I know my own work is definitely not above reproach and I don't agree with all of Saje's examples. Perhaps Jane was trying to deal with the paradox of how we view Native Americans, but I still see it as a problematic stanza.

I agree years is too long. I think Ray has a good system. As long as you send a letter/email removing your poem or poems from consideration, you are under no further obligation. I would imagine a journal that took that long is either no longer in business or they had a major shake up on their editorial board. Unprofessional, yes, but for journals who receive thousands of poems per reading period, it could just be an honest mistake.
I have taken to submitting to journals who want online submissions only since they do seem to be much faster. I get my rejections much more quickly this way. You guys are inspiring me to make the leap a little more often anyway.Thanks.

I think this string has been up before and I'm not sure if I commented then, but I would like to speak up for journals. Do note the turn around time, which most established journals do list. Also if you are submitting to an annual towards the beginning of their reading period, you might expect to wait quite some months. Also most editors or at least their boards are volunteers and their publications lives depend on grant money--they tend to disappear and resurface. I don't excuse totally unprofessional behavior, but I do think some empathy might be in order. Writers have been known to totally disregard submissions guidelines as well, which makes editors jobs even more difficult. I do think electronic submissions are the wave of the future.

Excellent idea, Tara. I'm just not sure I have the willpower. My B&N has a used section where they occasionally reduce sections(Poetry often) either by half or even to $1. I can't resist.But I will try for Sept. It does not sound crazy.

If only there were more hours in a day to read, write and talk to people like all of you about poetry and other life-charging things. Every time someone makes a suggestion, I would like to be able to get the book/poem, read it and reply. Unfortunately I'm best at collecting books and not reading them.

Sorry, thought I included it.
http://www.omnidawnblog.blogspot.com/

Enjoy!

I haven't been keeping up, but received my Omnidawn newsletter this morning and thought those of you following the thread might appreciate this poet, if not for her own poetry, then perhaps for her contributions to the art of translation. I enjoy Omnidawn's blog and get some good leads from it.

I worked for six years with a woman from the Dominican Republic, so she spoke Catalan(?) Spanish, not the type we usually learn in AMerican High Schools. I learned from her, but can not really put a phrase together to save my life. Sorry to disappoint Gregory. I would love to attempt translation and would be willing to learn or work with you, but know that my contribution might be more on the critical side after we get to English.

no, I only speak English. I took 1 year of French in college 20 years ago and I taught Spanish to preschoolers last year, which includes colors, body parts, days of the week and other such simple nouns and verbs. Russian I could not begin to fathom.
I am on vacation right now, so I am off my computer frequently. I should warn you that while I work in form on occasion, I am basically a free verser and do not feel that poetry has to rhyme. I do admire a masterful rhyme, but most work I admire is not rhymed.

Gregory,
I admire your efforts at translation and can imagine trying to keep rhyme in our poor English is amazingly difficult. The first thing that concerns me about your first poem is the idea of a patriotic for children, especally one that includes the transitory nature of life in relation to a loyalty to country, is rather unsavory to me. Just as far as the poem being pleasurable to read the line about the sun's piles--that implies something totally different than sun reflecting off the water, which I believe would be the more literal translation. I like the second stanza--image and sense hold there, but the last line of the whole poem seems totally clunky and a add on to the meaning of the original for the sake of rhyme.The line about spirit implies something about brotherhood, camaraderie, yes? Could you find a rhyme in that?
Are both the Spanish and the English yours? I have very few language skills or I would love to translate. Thanks for sharing your work.

Seeing Amichai's name made me think of a poem inspired by him, that I think I posted for a contest a while back. I still like it and like using other poets' lines for inspiration.

Forever’s Waiting Room

“Gods in the sky change, gods come and go,
Prayers remain forever.” Yehuda Amichai

Were does a prayer go?
Into the ear of God
to echo on forever,
into the ear of a mother
who curls beside her child
who hasn’t forgotten that questing language.
Where does my prayer go?
Into the ear of a lover,
pressed into the service of time and family
or into the ear of one listening
for the bells to say his leaving.
Where does a prayer go?
Lowered into the grave
of a million nations
that were graves still generations ago.
Where does a prayer go?
Down the barrel and
on the fuselage and on
the side of every megaton.
Is this where a prayer goes
when the lips and the ear
are gone?


Sandra Evans

Some time in the last few months, I believe April, Poetry magazine featured all translations. It was wonderful, some poets I wasn't familiar with. Alvaro de Campos and Dahlia Ravikovitch were especially appealing to me. The web site had pictures of each of the writers too, which was nice to see the face behind the words.I like to hear of new (to me) world poets, so keep it up.

http://blog.writersdigest.com/poeticasid...
is the link. I must admit that the fact it was from Writer's Digest worried me a bit, but this guy is full of ideas and does some nice interviews and articles on craft that don't appear in the mag to my knowledge though I don't subscribe. Maybe things are improved. I don't read a lot of the other poems, but the skill level varies widely. There is some really nice stuff out of the 600 or so posts everyday.

Yes, Marian, it is great fun. Can't say that I've written my best as I'm usually rushed for time and am not always in tune with the prompt, but just to be writing everyday after a four month drought is the miracle of doing the challenge. I find that I have to enter my comment twice every time which is odd, but its still worth it. I'll have to page through the tons of entries now to see if I new yours. Do join everyone.

Meditation on a White Bird

The dove alone in its white shroud
purity, innocence, the blank page
the washed, sunlit window, the cloud
and snow before anyone is awake.
How can one say or explain ‘peace’ without
a dove
and how strange that association coming
from the peace that God finally made with
His creation
after nearly wiping the slate after
counting to ten and taking a deep
cleansing breath
He pulled the plug on the water and
His anger and let it all run down
the drain
though, like a child with no knowledge
of plumbing and city sewers, I have no
idea of where this Earth’s drain leads to.
The dove went forth and brought back
knowledge out of the unknown—a sign
of security that there was an end to God’s
madness, that there was a light in the
darkness and that man would not have to
join the creatures of the ocean, the olive branch
the promise and the power
of a hollow white bird.

Wow, thanks, I wasn't really expecting that much feedback, but its great. Thanks for the link too. I did see an exhibit of it, along with several related works of multi-media art, at the North Dakota writer's conference about 4 years ago. I have to say that I did think of that during a particularly listy part of the murder/rape descriptions. I really didn't mean that I didn't like 2666, just that I didn't think it was one of the great works of all time as you do. but I totally admit to not being that knowledgeable about novels. I can probably not pick up on real subtle references to other works though I real Cervantes many years ago and Marquez.Thus I'm reading Junot Diaz right now so all the references are right there and I have to admit I know almost all of the geeky stuff. I agree that the sections on this sort of non-apologist version of World War II were amazing. It seems that it would be much closer to the kind of displacement that most of Europe experienced and Eastern Europe has been experiencing ever since. Send me a link if possible for your 2666 group discussion. With all the things you brought up I may have to read it again. I should say I've never read a Steven King novel, by entertainment I probably mean something a little heavier than most people. I'm just not that good at remembering everything I've read before and placing those templates over the current work I'm reading. I envy that. Thanks again.

I'm interested in why you think the book deserves heaps of praise. I did finish it and I was glad that I had ordered the three book soft cover set so that you can really see the different sections. It was like reading three different books. the only one that really felt interesting to me was the last one. the second almost made me sick, but I felt I had to keep reading to see what this great work of genius( I bought it because of the effusive NYT review)was all about. I can see the mastery of the interwoven story,but his style in the first book is bizarre--like he can't even concentrate on these vapid literary creatures for very long. I'm not that critical about fiction--I mostly read it to be entertained so I would love to hear from you.