R.C.'s comments (member since Oct 13, 2008)

R.C.'s comments from the Atheists and Skeptics group.

rgb --

What is your theory on the tremendous drop off in the quality of sci-fi?

There are still good authors, but nothing like 40+ years ago

Don't get me started on P.K. Dick and P.J Farmer...

Which reminds of Kilgore Trout, which reminds of Kurt Vonnegut, which reminds of more books for the other list....

On the good side, Coyle (also on the list) thought my being thrown out was bullshit and offered to "intercede" for me with the all powerful Caro-mod. I declined...;-)


Good for Coyle. His faith is strong enough that it is not threatened by others.

I can respect that.

God works in mysterious ways, which is Christian-speak for God works in way contrary or undetectable, depending upon the rational needed.

rgb --

Great list, added a few I should have thought, especially J.G Ballard.

I would add the The Stone that Never Came Down to the Brunner list -- I read it as a teenager, and it really gave me something to think about.

Behold the Man - I remember that vividly now that you remind me ...

You should be contributing to the list we started here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1503...

Tom wrote: "Iowa
Nevada
New Hampshire.



I'm still utterly amazed that Iowa was first."

yeah, didn't see that coming.

In the "I Live for Jesus and Jesus Alone" group someone asked for advice about a friend who's grandfather is dying.

The friend is not religious, and I (and Nathan) advised to be a friend, but not push religion. Not a good response I guess:

From Caroline:


R.C.
just because you happen to not believe in Christianity, please do not assume to tell us that prayer and inviting people to God is wrong. i'm not trying to sound mean, but your coming across very judgemental and i don't want our group to be that way.

Campbema
I'm sorry to hear about your friend's grandfather. I'm going through a similar situation with a friend at her work. her grandma has terminal cancer and her grandma isn't really all that religious.
in these situations, all you can really do is just be there for her. is your friend religious? sometimes reminding her about God's love is the most powerful thing you can do. ask her if she wants to pray with you. sometimes it can help :) i've seen it work many times. but right now, all you can do is just be there for her. she needs a friend right now more than anything.


As usual, the atheist asking for neutrality is accused of being judgmental. And even though it has been established the friend is not interested in religion, a lot of praying and saying God love's you is recommended.

But what I find interesting is that Caroline has seen prayer work many times. If true, then Caroline is claiming God treats her differently from everyone else. No one else gets proof God exists.

It must be nice.

And more ridiculous crap:


The point that must be emphasized over, and over, and over again: pro-life leaders and the pro-life movement are not responsible for George Tiller's death. George Tiller was a mass-murderer and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed."


-- Randall Terry, Operation Rescue.

A lot of irony in this statement. I would think recruiting people into a cult, filling their heads with violent metaphors, and then finding out you have, several times, created killers, would be "reaping what you sow".

And my current favorite:


"To call this a crime is too simplistic," adding, "There is Christian scripture that would support this."


-- David Leach, anti-abortion activist.

I would really like a Christian to point me to those scriptural passages, so we can have another nice discussion on how morality originates with God.

Dan wrote --

Dennett writes that one benefit of religion is that it helps us make decisions.


This is how I view all philosophies -- they fail badly at finding general truths that apply to the real world, but they often give us ways to act when presented with dilemmas (moral, ethical or whatever).

Some actions prescribed by religion however, are often at odds with the reality of the our human existence. The Christian religion, for example, by ignoring and dismissing our evolutionary past, requires discrimination against others.

And acting on the basis of superstition instead of science can be physically harmful to oneself and others.

E. T. Jaynes does. Not atheism per se, but any rational worldview.


Yes. Maybe a better way to state it is "what beliefs are unique to this system".

Tom said:


Atheism is not a religion, but it is a belief system.


I hear that a lot, but no one is ever able to tell me what the beliefs are in this system.


Since atheism entails an antipathy toward religion


I have very little antipathy towards religion, and it could be possible that an atheist would have none (compared to the background antipathy one has to anything).

I prefer my atheism to be just what it is -- my conclusion that I have not been shown objective evidence for the existence of any particular God a human being might envision as being capable of interacting with the reality I live in.

One could argue that my conclusion is based on the "belief" I have not been shown objective evidence -- but that is the nice thing about objective evidence, no belief is required.

I would add:

1984
The Grapes of Wrath
A Christmas Carol
A Wrinkle in Time

It is a good idea to add books that should be read as a child, then re-read in college, and again as an adult.

My 12 year old just finished Fahrenheit 451, and I got to thinking of other "must" read books (or short stories) that as an atheist and skeptic I would like my children/teenagers to read.

Here are some more off my closest bookshelf (too tired now for an exhaustive list)

Empire Star
Microcosmic God Complete Stories of Theodore Sturgeon 2
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Letters from the Earth Uncensored Writings
Understanding Physics
A Canticle for Leibowitz
The World of Null-A
An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural
The Name of the Rose including Postscript to the Name of the Rose
Stardust

Any other suggestions?

I found out about it through a news RSS feed. Thanks Charity.

The one I have always heard is that "Atheism is like not collecting stamps for a hobby"

Have we stretched this too far yet? ;o)


Noooo, I have developing a series of equations by which we can describe the attraction of one form of silliness for another....

From the article:


We've had a tough couple of months; my mum's been really ill and it's comforting to think that if he is there, he's watching over us."


Can we ever just read an article where someone says "hey, that looks like Jesus", without the obligatory reference to a supernatural power watching over us? Is there some rule taught in journalism school that requires it?

Scientists studying animal behaviour believe they have growing evidence that species ranging from mice to primates are governed by moral codes of conduct in the same way as humans.


Wow, those Gideons have sure been busy!

Who was it that said "politicans are not created, they are excreted" ?

Proposed bill in South Carolina:

TO AMEND ARTICLE 1, CHAPTER 29 OF TITLE 59 OF THE 1976 CODE, RELATING TO GENERAL PROVISIONS CONCERNING SUBJECTS OF INSTRUCTION IN THE STATE'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BY ADDING SECTION 59-29-15, TO PROVIDE THAT CURRICULUM USED TO TEACH STUDENTS ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF MANKIND MUST MAINTAIN NEUTRALITY BETWEEN RELIGIOUS FAITHS AND BETWEEN RELIGION AND NON-RELIGION, AND TO PROVIDE THAT CURRICULUM THAT DOES NOT MAINTAIN THE REQUIRED NEUTRALITY MUST BE REVISED OR REPLACED AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of South Carolina:

SECTION 1. Article 1, Chapter 29 of Title 59 of the 1976 Code is amended by adding:

"Section 59-29-15. (A) The General Assembly finds:

(1) that the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution makes wholly applicable to the states the First Amendment's mandate that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of or prohibiting the free expression of religion;

(2) that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all;

(3) a proper respect for the First Amendment compels the State to pursue a course of neutrality toward religion, favoring neither one religion over other religions, nor religion over non-religion or the inverse;

(4) that atheism is a school of thought that takes a position on religion and the existence and importance of a Supreme Being;

(5) that the United State Supreme Court recognizes atheism as equivalent to a religion for the purposes of the First Amendment; and

(6) that teaching atheism or any of its principals, including, but not limited to, the denial of the existence of a Supreme Being, as a philosophical system of beliefs or in a manner that affirmatively opposes or shows hostility to religion, thus exhibiting a preference for those who believe in no religion over those who hold religious beliefs, violates the First Amendment.

(B) The State Board of Education shall examine all curriculum in use in this State that purports to teach students about the origins of mankind to determine whether the curriculum maintains neutrality toward religion, favoring neither one religion over other religions, nor religion over non-religion, including atheism. Related to non-religion, the examination must include a review as to whether the curriculum contains a sense of affirmatively opposing or showing hostility to religion, thus preferring those who believe in no religion over those who hold religious beliefs. The duty to review curriculum imposed by this section is continuing and must reoccur periodically after the initial review in order to assure compliance with this section.

(C) If the board's examination determines that any curriculum fails to maintain the neutrality required by subsection (B), the offending curriculum must be revised or replaced as soon as practicable, but no later than the beginning of the next academic year.

(D) This section does not prevent classes being taught pursuant to Section 59-29-230."

So now teaching fact is unconstitutional.