Evalyn's comments (member since Jun 09, 2009)

Evalyn's comments from the Classics and the Western Canon group.

I laughed out loud at the following point gained from LesMiz:
99% of the time the pretty, bubble headed girl still gets the guy.
There's some truth to that, occasionally even today, but in defense of Cossette, she had such a rotten beginning to life- was it the first seven years?- and then when JVJ takes her in and cares for her and raises her, he protects her to the extent that you have to wonder what chance she might have for profound thought? Not to mention, which, young girls were not encouraged or taught along the same lines as men. Marrying "up" was Cossette's big achievement, today she could study the law or medicine, etc. and wouldn't need a man. Okay, folks, don't take it too seriously, that last was meant to be funny.

Good points, Everyman & Eliza. I didn't think about it being a residence and I didn't remember the reference that said he was "something of a poacher." I have always felt sympathetic toward JVJ but I suppose if you take just the facts (Remember Dragnet? Just the facts, m'am. Just the facts.) the law sees a person who's poached before, was armed, and broke into a residence to steal - we wouldn't want anyone to break into our homes in that way. I think it's the loaf of bread and the 19 years time served as well as the continual fear of being caught and put in for life that seems so out of balance. And added to that, we (as readers) know that JVJ has reformed and is leading a better life, even helping others when he can. Maybe that's one of the main factors in our sympathy. The law, on the other hand, cannot be privy to what's in a man's character or whether or not he's reformed. The number of years served is so extreme but as Everyman reminded us - they were added on for the escapes he made.

Well said, Everyman. I don't know what the punishment would be today for breaking and entering but I believe the punishment for theft would depend on the monetary amount of what was taken. And a loaf of bread - wow,it surely wouldn't have amounted to even a quarter of a dollar then. Bread is much higher now but the criminal wouldn't be sent "up" for five years. Does anyone know what the punishment is for breaking and entering these days? Just to compare.

Alias Reader has said it well, about the fate of the little brothers. The phrase "Anarchy has entered the garden" can be seen as an earlier version of: There goes the neighborhood. A little kindness toward the boys would have been a good sign, and it would have taken so little effort just to offer them what they threw to the swans.

I also asked a friend who was a Russian linguist at the time and he told me the same pronunciation that Thomas mentioned. This friend was reading a book in Russian at the time and I understood only two words in the entire book: Ernest & Hemingway. He had to tell me it was The Sun Also Rises because I couldn't tell! ;) It looks like an interesting language but I'm afraid I'll have to stick to English. :)

Oh no, Everyman, I must hang my head in shame. I don't have a copy of Doyle's Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle and - worse - I've never read it. I will remedy that right away! :)

Everyman wrote: "And now the moment you've all -- or at least three of you -- been waiting for. Our next interim read, to run during the Midwinter break from December 17 to the start of Anna Karenina on January 6 ..."


Eliza wrote: "Everyman wrote: "And now the moment you've all -- or at least three of you -- been waiting for. Our next interim read, to run during the Midwinter break from December 17 to the start of Anna Karen..."

Eliza wrote: "Everyman wrote: "And now the moment you've all -- or at least three of you -- been waiting for. Our next interim read, to run during the Midwinter break from December 17 to the start of Anna Karen..."

Why can't Valjean continue to see Cossette? Is it his "criminal past" that makes him unworthy to have a normal relationship with Cossette and Marius? It's all well and good to leave all his money to Cossette but then he creates an awkward relationship, and slips away from them. What a sad ending for Jean Valjean.

Javert is completely undermined by his own decision to let Valjean go. He seems to feel that it negates his entire life's structure. How sad. I thought it was the first spark of humanity over societal rules. Where does one draw the line when the rules/law says one thing but the humane thing to do is quite different?

You know, both times I read Anna Karenina were in January - coincidence? It couldn't be the cold, cold winters here that made it seem like a good book to read then. Unless it was the cold, cold Russian winters! ;0)

An easy way out in determining what is or is not on the list would be for someone to hotfoot it over to the nearest university English Dept. They all have a list of the "Western Canon" available and would be glad to supply it. But, that wouldn't list classics that we want to read that may not have made the list - so that would put us back at square one, wouldn't it?

I think we do see the first glimmer of a change in Javert. He was affected by Valjean's compassion when Valjean releases him and refuses to kill him. Receiving such compassion from a man Javert had hunted relentlessly and without compassion himself would, surely, at the very least strike the smallest flint in the coldest heart.

Vive la revolucion! Except poor Mabeauf is killed putting up the flag. The deaths of Mabeauf and Eponine are especially tragic, maybe because they were powerless to a pitiful degree in society. I can't decide if Hugo is pointing out how senseless the fighting by killing these two victims or if he is showing the extent to which even the weak and powerless are willing to fight for equality?

Thomas wrote: "thewanderingjew wrote: "Perhaps you should write a disclaimer not to vote for a particular book if you don't plan on participating so that when a book is chosen, it is the book that those actually ..."

And...Do not pass Go, Do not collect 200 dollars. :)

Thanks for the engraving of the elephant, Sandybanks. It helps to see it in perspective, but what does it mean "not actually built" in 1830?

If I remember my Lit studies, the school of thought in the 19th century was that a novel had two purposes, one was to teach (be didactic in nature) and the other was to delight (entertain). There are many other 19th century works that fit this mode of thinking too besides Les Mis.

Little Gavoroche is a brave little guy and heart-wrenching, and becoming my favorite character besides Valjean and Cosette. Also, if Hugo's goal was to portray the ills and inequality in society, Gavroche's life makes that point very well, don't you think?

As an aside: the digression in this section, interestingly, is not of place or event or people, but of language. I’m waiting to hear peoples views of this!

I found this digression on language to be very interesting and I wondered if this is one of the first uses of dialects or language as it is spoken by a particular class of people - such as prisoners? I was particularly intrigued by the statement that real argot is the "deadly language of misery" - There is certainly abject poverty and misery depicted here.

Anyone else intrigued by the lines about humanity (p722 in the Fahnestock translation) which talks about man being the same darkness before, during and after death and then goes on to say: "But ignorance, mixed with the human composition blackens it. This incurable ignorance possesses the heart of man, and there becomes Evil."?? I've often heard (and thought) that people who are prejudiced, for example, are just ignorant. But is ignorance responsible for all Evil?

On the subject of names and/or identity I received a credit report recently that had my name written four different ways, some not even close to being accurate. And then I thought of this quote:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
(R&J II,ii,1-2)
Computers would have tracked Valjean much more accurately (like my credit report?) but once he met and was influenced by Bienvenu, he was the same person he would be "by any other name." But here's the question, does a person's identity suffer by someone else's opinion, even if that opinion is ill-informed?

Marius is an interesting character. It says (about Marius): "Misery, we must insist, had been good to him. Poverty in youth, when it succeeds, is magnificent in that it turns the whole will toward effort and the whole soul toaward aspiration."
Is he saying that poverty while young has a refining effect and makes a better person, and would do the same for others? But he's talking about youth and not childhood, because we've seen what poverty did to Cosette and to the little street urchins, right?