Robert's comments

Robert's comments from the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.

Note: Robert is no longer a member of this group.

That's actually a lot like how I feel. After reading all six, as I said I enjoyed 1-5, but I really don't think I'm going to go out of my way to read more of her work.

Where are you in the series Dylan? I've read all six, and I'd hate to discuss some key plot point only to find out you haven't gotten there yet, lol.

For me, books 1- 5 were all real good, I couldn't wait to get my hands on the next one while reading them. Unfortunately for me, I started reading shortly after Enchanter had come out, so I had long waits between books. I loved the setting, and I loved the story. The sentinals were a riot, I love the Icarii people, and Axis is a cool hero to follow, as is Faraday and Azhure. Caelum, Dragonstar, and Riverstar are all well written characters in the later books as well, and were enjoyable to read about.

Book six on the other hand, I was not pleased with. I don't want to ruin anything for anyone who hasn't read it, but I found it to be poorly written compared to the other five. I had really expected more out of it. I have a review of it if you would like to see more of why I didn't like it (once again, spoilers are inevitable), and feel free to comment either here or on my page, I'd like to see how others thought of the series. Who knows, maybe someone can get me to look at it in a different way and change my opinion about it.

It almost sounds like you guys have never watched anything on the BBC before! I watched Dr. Who on the BBC back when I was a kid, and any number of other programs like Hitchhikers Guide. That's what they ALL look like, cheesy effects and all. I myself really enjoyed the Mini-series, except for the real bad intros to every episode. I can see why Gaiman chose to write a novel to better portray things, but honestly I didn't expect anymore out of the BBC and I enjoyed what they gave me.

Another thing to remember is that back in Medieval Europe people, especially the peasants, were looking for ways to live better. The Church had a heavy hand in day to day life, and many people sought to better themselves so that they could live as better Christians. Many of these works, such as Dante's Divine Comedy and Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, told people what was good and bad, right and wrong.

Now, in today's enlightened age, people don't want to be told how to live. they want to live life however they want. Most people will resent any kind of criticism, even when it comes from friends and family. No one wants some strange author they've never met and who doesn't know them to tell them they're living life wrong.

C'mon! Is that ALL there is for us? All creativity, all individuality, wiped out in a single generation? Thousands of years of human ingenuity culminates in nothing more than our being assimilated into a metaphysical Borg commune?

I agree, with no insight into the Overmind's purpose you immediately question if this is actually an evolutionary step in the right direction or not. For all we know, the Overmind only exists to perpetuate itself, requiring to absorb a new race as soon as it's ready or risk stagnation.

Like you've all said before, it is a good book, and very well written. I must say, for it's depressing end, it was very different from any other sci-fi novel I've read. There is no achievement of the stars, no Earth Empire, and no evil villain trying to wipe out humanity. Rather, we see the end of an evolutionary chain, and essentially the beginning of a new one. It's like the Overlords kept telling the people of Earth: Our minds just aren't ready to understand the how and why of it.

Dune is rather weighty, but it is definitely worth the read. I've read it and re-read it several times, and get new insights each time as my understanding of life in general expands. I would love to read it in a group, and see what new insights we can all bring out together.

That's a great point, AA! I myself would not check in with a missing co-worker. I would probably ask my boss where he's been, get told some kind of "Dunno, he's not even called in" answer, then be like "Sucks..." and move on with my day.

When it ultimately comes down to it, everyone inherently has a little bit Jessica in them, some more than others. No matter how altruistic you wish to be, whether or not you help someone usually comes down to one final question: is there danger in it for me? Whether its a financial risk you're wary of, or if its fear of bodily harm, you will ask yourself this question, even if you're not aware of it at the time. But everyone also has the capacity to be a Richard. The Richards of the world will look at the question, and then decide that the risk to themselves is outweighed by the need of the person, hence why he helps Door. The Jessica's of the world will decide that it's not worth the risk, and move on to safer waters.

Gaiman shows that yes, it is far easier to be a Jessica and only look out for yourself, but Jessica's never really accomplish anything worthwhile. They're not risk takers. Richards, on the other hand, take one risk that leads to another, and then another, and at the end, they have accomplished a great deal, and are able to look back on it with pride. Richard returns to London Below because London Above is full of Jessica's, and he has learned that he is not a Jessica.

Sorry, I guess Philosophy came up and smacked me in the face for a moment there.

That's actually a very true statement, now that I think about it! Everyone had their memorable lines throughout the novel, but those two really brought the most character into it. Here you have two ancient, sociopathic serial killers, and they have a great sense of humor! A morbid one, to be fair, but still everything they say or do is just funny! The interplay off the two characters is great, too. I really don't think you could do Mr. Vandemar without Mr. Croup, or vise versa. It would be too plain, too boring whenever you read about the character.

I had a great time reading The Fall of the Towers by Samuel R. Delany. It's a great trilogy that can be read in it's entirety quite quickly. A few people become aware of the truth, and try to warn the rest of the world of the peril they've been in for years. When they aren't believed, they set out to save the world from itself.

I really enjoyed this back in grade school, and I'd love to read it again!

I have to agree with Cairnraiser. Sci-fi has a lot it can do, and we need to trust in the authors to make us believe it. Space travel is still not outside it's purvey, for while we have achieved it, we are severely limited in it. We are nowhere near the level of technology of novels like Dune and The Stars Like Dust. Hell, we don't even have a bi-pedal robot in every home yet. So the old themse are still viable, they just have to be looked at in new ways.

As for new themes, Cyberpunk is a good example. A novel like Snow Crash would never have been written in the 50's, too many of the concepts and basic technology is new to the 90's and later. And as new technology is developed, there will always be themes that expand on that technology. Imagine a novel centered around the outcome of cellphones 100 years from now. Or based off of MP3 players 200 years from now.

As long as there is Science, the will be Science Fiction. Whether it's technology, bio-engineering, space travel, or good ol' fashioned robots, we will still love reading about it.

Also, I know it's not a Legend or a myth, but there is a blatant reference to The Wizard of Oz:

Richard: We've got to get the thing I've got to the Angel. Then he'll tell Door about her family and he'll tell me how to get home.
Lamia: And he'll give you a brain and me a heart.

That was a good one! Made me think of "The Vogon ships hung in the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't".

I also enjoyed Anesthesia's "Yes, this flame too is hot." looks.

Here's a few other good ones:

"Is it the kind of ordeal like visiting a rather bad tempered, elderly female relative is an ordeal, or is it more the plunging your hand into a pot of scalding water to see how quickly it strips the skin off sort of ordeal?"

Mr. Croup: If you cut us, do we not bleed?
Mr. Vandemaar: [pondering] No.

Nice in a bodyguard is about as useful as the ability to regurgitate whole lobsters.

I particularly enjoyed the Atlantian references. I think Gaiman used to very well to make Islington appear to be a beneficent being who was unjustly imprisoned. All the way until the end, I kept asking myself what happened that he wasn't able to save Atlantis, and then we find out "Oh wait, HE happened to Atlantis!" It was a wonderful twist that I had not been expecting, and I think Gaiman set it up well.

Donna had mentioned it was a "man grows up" style theme, and as you stated, it was supported by another poster who mentioned Peter Pan.

I actually think it is neither of these things. I will admit, Richard goes through life as though it's already been pre-programmed for him, mostly by Jessica lately. I think that it's more self discovery then growing up. Richard doesn't have any real goals of his own because he doesn't know what he wants or what he's capable of. His trip through London Below taught him just what he can do<i/> and what he can be<i/>. In London Below he was useful, appreciated, and -in all honesty- permitted his own opinions. He found courage where he didn't think there was any, he fought dark villains, and stood by his friends. At any point in this, he could have decided to abandon Door and the others for a safer experience.

Back in London Above, he once again goes back to the same thing. A job that he doesn't really enjoy, a girlfriend who wants to have more control of his life than he does. I think he realized that he had nothing up here worth fighting for, where in London Below he could be his own person, with friendships forged more through hardship than through strong social connections.

I just finished Salvatore's Demon Apostle for the Demon Wars trilogy. Did this book seem weak to anyone else who read the series? I thought the ending was bland and did not do the previous two books justice.

In addition to that, He always wants to have his hand in things. He becomes very upset when he does not have a bit of information, and hates having to admit he doesn't know. On top of that, the Marquis is a very clever person, like in how he gets vital information and in how he saves his own life, among several things.

It gave London Below a very real feel to it by being mostly squalor. It was like a primitive culture, where bartering is the main means for trade, and any number of unknown things could kill you. I think it was much more believable than had he gone to some "mystical land of unicorns"

If you are discussing how a theme played out at the end, I would put it in the Finished folder. If you are discussing any other aspect of the theme (such as how it relates to the characters, author, other novels, etc.) that can be done without revealing the end, it should be fine to discuss in the Reading folder.

No problem, Nick!

So far, I've gotten the following:

The Demon Apostle - R.A. Salvatore
Dragonspell - Donita K. Paul
Wolf Captured - Jane Lindskold
Crusader - Sara Douglas

We'll see what else I pick up out of my "To Read" list. I think I might look into Childhood's end this month, as well.