Arian's comments (member since Dec 06, 2007)

Arian's comments from the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.

I can't recall all of the particulars at this moment - but I seem to recall that Chani was, in fact, a Reverend Mother. Not of the Bene Gesserit, of course, but the Sayyadina (sp?) of the sietch.

Murbella I don't recall very much at all. My memory wants to say it's because the previous Honored Matres weren't "doing it right" - and it had something to do with her being the first Honored Matre to "defect," as it were.

Yes! That's a bogus claim. IF there is a theme of good v evil running through the book THEN good usually triumphs, etc, etc. But there doesn't have to be, and it's a disservice to all of the really good offerings in the fantasy genre to consider it that way. (ALL of Guy Gavriel Kay, Kate Elliot, some of Jacqueline Carey.) While yes, most stories do tend to have an antagonist, this creates conflict, not necessarily a good v evil duality.

It's just as innacurate as if I had said "Is it bogus to say that sci fi is long descriptions of science that detract or eliminate true character development?" SURE, there are plenty of those out there, but they are not the only stripe of the genre, and the whole genre should not be judged by their existence. Or if you presume that all fantasy is magical handwaving that gets the characters out of tough spots. Yeah, that exists, but every genre has the relative it wishes would dress up a bit more for dinner and not belch at the table ...

David Farland, Runelord series. I can't remember the name of the first book, but that should get you there.

"It all felt tainted to me, the entire story. "

Gods, yes, Shannon - that it's exactly! Even Ned's nobility wasn't really "noble." It's like whatever better characteristics we have as humans, no one in Westeros can have. (With the *possible* exception of Bran ... who seems to be genuinely good - and look what happens to him.)

I applaud Martin's desire to make a realistic setting, but I read for enjoyment - there had better *be* some enjoyment for me in the series. (By contrast, Robin Hobb's Assassin books are rather unrelentingly downbeat - but they don't have that tainted feeling to them.)

I'm not enjoying my second readthrough. In truth, I didn't really enjoy the first, but I'm a completionist, and I'm just hoping for some payoff at the end of the whole thing.

I know that an author tries to put his characters through 9 kinds of hell to force them to grow, and to provide conflict, but really now! This is possibly the most depressing, dreary book I've ever read. While I don't expect characters to have it easy or to lack conflict, there really ought to be *something* to add some levity. After this novel, I'm left with the feeling that things are awful, things are always going to be awful, and why should I care? I can't root for the "good guys" - I've been disenfranchised from that notion.

Honestly, it's more like a train wreck to me than a soap opera - I know everyone's going to die, the only question is how gruesome it's going to be.

The only thing I think Ned's death served to do is show that Joff is stupid, as well as cruel. On the other hand, Ned as a character would have mucked up where Martin sent his novel (can't you just see him moping on the wall? Cuz Jon would have ever (spoiler) then?)

And I think Martin also used Ned to show that his main character could and would die. Ned is the first hint of "wow, this author is merciless."

So I think that Ned dying served the *plot*, but I don't know that it served much of an internal purpose, if that makes sense.

And, honestly, rereading it? His death doesn't choke me up at all. He was a morose, single-minded man. He'd never have survived in Westeros as long as he did if he hadn't been sequestered in the North.

I'll chime in with more Dany-love. But, on second reading, I'm finding myself disgusted with most of the characters.

And, while not strictly a main character, I'm just in flat-out hatred of Robert. Having read the books faithfully, I know all of the trouble that the last Targaryen (sp?) started. But - my god - Robert? Ugh. I'd call him the Usurper, too.

I would be happy to do Dune if you don't have anyone yet.

"@Arian: In your example, why are women expected to please themselves but a man isn't if multiple men are involved? I see no logistical problem. (Not asking for graphic detail here, just brought it up as a thinking point.)"

Sorry for the delay in posting; I missed this somehow. :)

Like many things, there's a dichotomy in the modern age regarding homosexuality. In a fantasy, two women with one man would happily explore their bi tendencies and engage in activites together. It's a common male fantasy - or so I've heard. On the other hand, male homosexuality is so looked down upon that a woman in bed with more than one man leaves one potential partner with, ahem, nothing to do. Also, there's a larger stigma with even being naked and involved in sexual activities as a male when there's another male in the room. So it's okay for women in our society, but not for men.

I've seen this stigma at work in the larger world outside of fiction as well, and doubtless it affects an author.

I think an important component of propaganda is intent. Does the commander in your example know the truth of what's going on? Yes. Does he deliberately withhold information to achieve the desired response? Yes. Is this a case of propaganda in action? Oh, most certainly. Now consider this: do the commanders at the school – notably Graff – know the truth of what’s going on? Do they deliberately withhold information to achieve the desired response? Far from being a propagandist novel, Card sets up Ender as the victim of propaganda. The commanders at the school withhold the information that this is an invasion, not a rescue, because they fear the children would hold back if they didn’t. When Ender discovers the truth, he’s devastated – at least as devastated as you can be at 11. While children are certainly brighter and more perceptive that we give them credit for, it’s still truth that life and death don’t have quite the same connotations that they do when you’re older.

I know we’re trying to avoid bringing the sequels in here, but I think in this case it’s important to point out that in future novels Ender is positively vilified for his actions while at the school. The public of Card’s world doesn’t care that he didn’t have a choice, or that he was manipulated into doing it – they care that he committed genocide. Ender, we are told, spends the rest of his life trying to find atonement for that sin. Far from presenting Ender’s actions as justified, Card goes out of his way to show that they are not.

Now, is this a wish fulfillment fantasy? Maybe. Perhaps Card wishes that life were that easy. But nowhere does he advocate this direction, nor does he attempt to show it in a positive light. While Ender internally rationalizes his actions as being “necessary,” we, as the audience, do not. We know – even as he doesn’t – that he’s killed. And we don’t accept this as right. I would counter that Ender’s Game is, in fact, a clear image of the dangers of propaganda. Not because we ourselves are falling prey to it when reading, but because the denouement of the book is when Ender realizes that he has been the victim of propaganda and has committed atrocities because of it.

Most "fantasies" are expressed that way. I'd put it out there that it's not because of the predilections of the author, per se, but because of the actual physicality involved. There's a conception that when there's more than one woman with a man, they will, er, please themselves. One woman with more than one man would be hard pressed to keep everything running smoothly. Also, there's a stigma of homosexuality attached to such a scenario. After all, one woman only has so many options - there's definitely an upper limit to what's realistic.

I will also take this opportunity to dredge up an older discussion point and say that Virginia, at least, did not consider her husband to be a misogynist, and I'll take the opinion of a man's wife over anyone else. (I got the opportunity to speak with her in the early 90's when newsgroups were all the rage.)

I was born in '77, which makes me about a median age for this list, I think. After a long and varied (but mostly boring) history including an ex-husband and 10 years of waiting tables, I ended up where I am now. I'm currently living in Minnesota with my girlfriend, paying the bills by working in the accounting section of a megabank. My free time goes to WoW, books, and knitting.

I can't even begin to list off the books I've read this year, as I can't recall all of them. But I will say that I read the entire Crown of Stars series and adored them. Highly recommended to anyone that likes good, rich plot and a lot of intrigue with their fantasy.

Oh, let's see.

I'd like to read the Baroque Cycle by Stephenson, which I believe begins with Quicksilver.

I started That Nameless Day by Sara Douglass, and also Hades' Daughter, and would like to revisit either of them.

I've got the first book of the very famous trilogy by CS Friedman that I can't recall the name of just now, that I've never gotten to. (Something ... fire. Coldfire?)

As for the others, honestly I can't recall book titles off the top of my head - of I don't know enough about the authors to know where to begin.

Unfortunately I'm at work with limited time and access right now. I'll try to give it further thought when I have my bookshelves in front of me.

Okay, here's a few suggestions pulled out of my head very quickly.

Authors I have never read (but want to):
C J Cherryh
Jack Whyte
Tanya Huff
Sara Douglass
Jennifer Roberson
Neal Stephenson
C S Friedman

And a few suggestions of books I have read, and loved:

Judith Tarr - Alamut
Melissa Scott - Trouble and Her Friends
Guy Gavriel Kay - Tigana

The Golden Age is a very good far future sci-fi book. However, it *is* part of a trilogy, and to really understand the world, you should read all of them. (Then again, I really like the idea of suggesting only the *first* books in series, and letting people finish the series on their own if they want to.)

No suggestions yet, but I should look at my wishlist to see what I've wanted to read and never made time for.