J-Lynn's comments (member since Dec 10, 2007)

J-Lynn's comments from the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.

Thomas,

Historical/biographical interest? In what sense?

Sandi,

Each android was assigned a human. How could Ray have killed each android's human? And Pris says to Ray that "He doesn't understand what WE did to get here" (or something like that) emphasis on the we.

I am not entirely convinced that Holden isn't dead. Remember, most of the humans don't know that bounty hunters exist or that there are androids on earth. So, if Holden did die, they would have to come up with a cover story. But, even if he isn't dead, he is messed up enough not to be able to take any calls. I am not convinced that Polokov didn't try to kill him or leave him for dead after he attacked.

I agree Sue, I am glad that I didn't remember the movie implication that he was an android or that I didn't jump on the discussion board too early.

I think the best part about Rick is that he is so human.

I tend to agree with Brooke. I think we might be giving Dick too much credit. Many people have commented on other topics about his unreliable narrators and scattered writing style. Could this just be the way he writes? He just isn't all that concerned with continuity and attention to detail. You get what you get and because the book is set in a dystopian (although I wouldn't describe it as chaotic, it seemed like they had regular routines)futuristic world, we tend to read into it some sort of deep logic.

I'm not sure there is method to his madness.

I have only seen the original. Maybe my appreciation of the movie would go up if I watched one of the "ridiculous number of versions."

I think all the re-editing shows that the movie didn't work to begin with.

The boss also didn't want him to go see the Dave in the hospital and was kind of shady about why. When I was reading, I thought maybe the bounty hunter had actually been killed and they didn't want Rick to know yet. OR that something else had actually gone down with Polokov. But, like many parts of the book, Dick doesn't explain.

The whole having to stop and test the android first thing--whether it is with the empathy test or with a spinal cord marker as Thomas suggests--is a real disadvantage for the Humans. I understand that they don't want to "retire" any humans by mistake, but it leaves the bounty hunter vulnerable (as the first bounty hunter found out--I can't remember his name). Sitting down politely for a quick test that decides whether or not the bounty hunter is going to kill them, gives the android a chance to fight back. As I was reading the book, it seemed like an inefficient system (even though Rick didn't need to implement it because the androids were trying to kill him).

Regardless of their motives, the Rosen Company designing human-like androids is irresponsible, especially since there is a history of androids killing their human masters and trying to blend in on Earth.

Funny.

I have to admit I hate spiders and it was hard for me to empathize with that scene. It was the first time in my life that I felt bad for a spider! Those blasted androids!

Kristjan,

The consumers are the colonists who do want more human androids. The cops aren't the consumers, they are just an interested party. Which goes back to my original argument that it is a supply and demand issue with a better product as the ultimate goal which will positivly effect their profits. You may have disagreed with the examples I used, but I think you help argue my original post.

Thomas,

I disagree. The Nexus-6 isn't indistinguishable. Isidore realizes that there is something different about Pris immediately (even though he doesn't make the full connection to android until much later). And Rick comments several times about a coldness that makes the androids stand out--and don't forget that he knew Rachel was an android from the beginning. Even Ray says that Polokov and Luba were foolish for trying to blend in because there was something different about them. And one of Rachel's motives for helping Rick is supposed to be to study what makes them distinguishable.

I think profit is often the overarching motive to big business, even if there are subplots afoot (and we don't have enough evidence from the book to know if there are). Rosen tried to trick Rick with Rachel because he had promised law enforcement that the Nexus 6 was distinguishable using the empathy test. If it was proven unreliable, it would have hurt business. Rachel was essentially used as the floor model, showing how close to human the Nexus-6 were, but ultimately the model is imperfect--it can be distinguished--thus back to the drawing board for a more human android.

Mike,

I don't see the communist/patriot connection. I do think Dick wanted us to be on Rick's side which was literally a hunted/bounty hunter dichotomy. And is interesting because authors often try to get readers to sympathize with the hunted. But, in Dick's unreliable narrative (as others have called it), the hunter is held up as the protagonist. And the spider scene is the dividing line.

Never. I am very OCD when it comes to reading a book. If I get bored with a book, I might read three or four books at a time and pick up the boring book every once in a while, but I have to finish it!

The worst example was The Tommyknockers by Stephen King. It took 600 pages to get interesting, but I couldn't give up on it!

Even though the animals are a commodity, the fact that they are cared for as best they can in a radioactive world and that it is a matter of pride to have a healthy animal is one of the most interesting parts of the book. I don't care about the humans' motivations for owning, breeding, and caring for the animals--the fact that the animals are a priority makes me happy.

I finished it yesterday. It was interesting and so much better than Blade Runner--I was worried.

But, it is definitely not my favorite. I was really interested in the first three quarters of the book, but the ending started to get a little convoluted for me. I recognized that Dick was doing it on purpose, but I think the Mercer connection and the Frog was a little too deep for me.

I am glad I read it though because I never would have picked it up on my own.

Mr. Rosen at the beginning of the book says they are making them more human because it is "what people want." Could it be that simple? Supply and demand.

Obviously, it makes the cops' jobs harder, but humanoid companions are probably what people want. Especially if Mars is as lonely as Pris says it is.

I didn't like Iran's character either. I thought her ordering the flies at the end of the book seemed out of character from what we had seen previously. Was it the most empathetic act in the book? Maybe. But, I questioned her reason for doing it.

I didn't think her character was interesting either. I didn't feel as strongly as Bunny, but definitely viewed her as one dimensional and rooted in an earlier age.

I think the portrayal of women in the book is frustrating and sexist. I recognize that it was written in the 60's, but it is supposed to be a futuristic portrayal. However, there is a depressed housewife and a seducing vixen. Blah.

Regardless of deep meaning--I think the title is a lot of fun. I chose this book when we voted based on the title. I am so bored with all of the obvious titles or one word titles or cliched titles--there are too many books out there and too little time--I appreciate a little creativity in the title.

They killed humans to get to earth. That is what they are being "retired" for, not a lack of empathy.

I actually compare Mercerism more to the Mood Organ--they are both a sort of drug to keep the masses left on earth calm and in line. Even though the inhabitants treat Mercerism as a religion or a world view, I don't think it is--it's just another fix to get through the bleak day.

I think the scene with the spider was the dividing line between human and android. Up until that point, the androids were fairly sympathetic characters. But, Dick clearly separates the androids from the humans when they pull of the spider's legs--Isidore is horrified into a near breakdown and Deckard is jealous that Isidore found an animal in the wild. But, the androids have no compassion for the life and want to experiment with it. I think this was Dick giving the readers a reality check to make sure we were empathizing with the right side.