MB's comments (member since Jan 08, 2009)

MB's comments from the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.

Agreed about Curse of Chalion. 'Tooth and Claw' was very good as well. What about American Gods? (That seems like an obvious pick to me.) Or His Majesty's Dragon?

Rita, your comment was interesting! Thanks for that. I had to post in reply because, in a way, I agree with you. It is depressing! The first time I read this book, I found it chilling. (Had a pretty strong emotional reaction.) Then I had to read it again for an English class. That time, it was not a problem because I knew what to expect. I rated this book high, not because of my enjoyment, but because that strong reaction has become ingrained into my mind and (somewhat) affects how I view the world.

(That sounds more important that it is...I'm a lot more cynical, really. And Doonesberry, Pratchett, and Tepper have also influenced my worldview...so I'm easy. <grin>)

...But I've never forgot the book, itself, and my reaction to it. It's been 10 years at least since I read it last, but I still remember it clearly--which is unusual for me.

I absolutely love Diane Duane's Young Wizard series. The first book is So You Want to Be a Wizard. They are kind of a combo of fantasy with sci fi elements. The first 3 books are my favorites and the third book in the series, Young Wizards, Book 3 High Wizardry (Digest) is very sci-fi oriented.

Hmmm... Lara, I think my thought was that the status quo can and has changed rapidly due to sudden, or somewhat sudden, cataclysmic changes. (I.e. economic devastation after a war (Germany), or political regime change (Iran). Or the Cultural Revolution as Meghan mentioned above. People don't always think about long-term consequences very well when they're frightened or threatened...

So, yes, it would be difficult for something like the Republic of Gilead to happen in 'today's America', I don't doubt that. But I don't think it'd be impossible if civilization were disrupted by X calamity, that led to Y, then to Z leading to a breakdown of the norm/standard.

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Off on a tangent as I often go... This discussion reminds me of a strange, if poorly written, book that posits this type of scenario in a different way. (Red State vs. Blue State). It was Orson Scott Card's Empire. Very strange book!

;-) Hmmm.... I just noticed that (other than Brad) no 'obvious' men are participating in this discussion.

Interesting. Is this not a book that interests them? Or do women just feel more strongly about the plot?

Nothing wrong with that, btw... I'm not being
critical, just making an observation.

* * * * *

One other observation: Maybe one reason that "this couldn't happen here" is because so many of us HAVE read The Handmaid's Tale and HAVE had a huge reaction to it. Maybe the fact that she did write it made it less possible as a future scenario???

I have to respectfully disagree with the premise of "this could not really happen here and now" with two historical examples.

One: Iran. Has anyone else read Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis 1 The Story of a Childhood? Do you know how fast the change of regime made it impossible for women to have jobs outside the home and to move around freely (and unveiled). It's pretty chilling! And it happened in my lifetime.

Two: Germany after WW1. One of my strongest memories of visiting the Washington DC Holocaust Museum 10-years ago was the archival video presentation showing newsreels of how the German population was devastated economically after WW1 and how the Nazi party rose to power by focusing the population's fear, anger, and frustration on the "Other". In that case, the Jews along with Gypsies, Handicapped, and Homosexuals. That happened pretty quick too. Just a years, (maybe 15? I'm guessing). And Hitler/the Nazis, and WW2 sure made a mess of our modern world with fallout still today.

Also, there are a few fairly insane seeming vocal political leaders around our world today that would like to touch off genocide in order to gain more power for themselves. That could happen easily, with just a few things going wrong. I'm sure we can all think of a few people we'd be scared to have in control of our lives.

This is such an interesting discussion! I agree with Rachel that religion was used as an excuse for the men of Gilead to do what they wanted to do. And I think it is chilling because we see happening in various societies and cultures in our modern world. Although 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a new book, it is just as frightening now because it IS so plausible.

I have saved two very good quotes that I came across in my reading recently. Both seem applicable to this discussion. The first one is by Dan Simmons... "Any allegiance to a deity or concept or universal principal which puts obedience above decent behavior toward an innocent human being is evil." (Slightly paraphrased by me, and, I think, from 'The Fall of Hyperion'.)

Another good one from a short story by Karen Joy Fowler is "Mother was just glad to have me out of the house and harm's way. She did give me some advice. You can always tell a cult from a religion, she said, because a cult is just a set of rules that lets certain men get laid." (Pretty funny, yes...but also true IMO.)

So...there's my philosophy on the standard for an admirable religion and where it crosses the line into evil. R/x: Apply to individual and/or group as necessary.

;-) What do you all think????

Also, I don't want to sidetrack this interesting discussion, but something I've always wondered about readers of "The Handmaid's Tale", it is do men (or can men) find it as chilling as a female reader would? What do you think????

How about Tam Lin by Pamela Dean? It won the Mythopoeic Award, I believe.

And for just plain fun, I love Diana Wynne Jones' The Year of the Griffin!

They are fascinating creatures though! Who knew? I.e. The Secret Life of Lobsters How Fishermen and Scientists Are Unraveling the Mysteries of Our Favorite Crustacean

I'll second The House of the Stag by Kage Baker. I loved the way she played with fantasy tropes and her wise and witty sense of humor.

Brian and Ajah, have you read First Meetings in Ender's Universe and/or A War of Gifts An Ender Story?

Both of these books discuss this question in much more detail and throw different viewpoints into the mix. OSC really enjoys playing with this theme/exploring this choice.

They're very good (and short) books. I recommend them.

I like Ilona Andrews. Her 'Magic Bites' series is very good.

Also the Harry Dresden series by Jim Butcher is very popular. May be more appropriate for older teens?

American Gods and Anansi Boys felt most complete to me. And I wouldn't mind a sequel...(hint, hint).

I just read a short story out there set after American Gods and it looks like there's still plenty of room to build that world. So we'll see...

I liked the book, but it felt too short to me. I would have liked more content. Not necessarily a different ending, because it made sense. But just more altogether. My primary feeling on finishing it was frustration, i.e. "...that's all?!?"

I put that down to it being 'for' children, but in looking back, I usually feel a little bit that way about all of his books. Maybe that's a compliment? I'm not sure. There is an incomplete vibe that I pick up, like he was tired of them and wanted to move on to the next project.

And for all you Gaiman fans out there, I'm NOT dissing him...really! He's good. (I think so too.)

I'd be interested in recommendations as well.

Lori, the only thing I've read about Eleanor was an old Gladys Malvern and A Proud Taste for Scarlet and Miniver by E. L. Konigsburg. (Probably everyone's read that one already since it's a classic.)

BunWat, that sounds very interesting. I bet it is the same thing.

For some reason your mention of Eleanor and Henry's power struggles is reminding me of something in a novel/s I've read. It was to do with the heroine and the adjustments, responsibilities, and conflicts that came up when when someone swore fealty directly to her rather than the man in her life. Now it's driving me crazy because I can't remember what book/s! Aargh! I hate that!

Oh, yay! Lori, thanks for the encouragement about Dunnett. I was hoping that it would get easier since so many readers love the books. I've only got through the first 40+/- pages so far and it is hard going. I'm glad to hear that it gets easier. I'm getting the Dunnett Companion--hopefully that will help.

Bunwat, I just discovered P.F. Chisholm (aka Patricia Finney) and was referring to A Season of Knives. I think it was because she was in a fealty arrangement (marriage?) with him. Maybe because she would be considered property? I don't know enough history to be sure but thought that was interesting.

BTW, they are not sci fi, but this series is GOOD! I recommend them to anyone interested.

Or, as in the historical mystery I'm reading, a wife accused of murdering her husband could be condemned for petty treason and burned. Petty treason? Sentenced to burn?? Wow...we've come a long way.

Ben, which Octavia E. Butler would be best to start with? And, Dune? Hmmm...I've been wondering about that one.

Jim, your Mom sounds great!

Sarah Pi, on reading the reviews of "World Made By Hand" it sounds like the author could be projecting his fantasy world on his future utopia/distopia, by reducing women's status? Maybe his own worldview is distorted or outdated? Is he projecting? What do you think? (I mean, how many people out there really believe that a post-apocalyptic world is going to be 'better' without strong, capable, opinionated and educated women and their skills, input and participation? I haven't read it so am only going by reviews, sorry if my assumptions are incorrect.)

No, Sarah Pi, I haven't read that one. I think that that premise would drive me crazy. (Even someone as good as Jack McDevitt irritated me.) The assumptions in novels that men get to do all the fun stuff while women support them are super annoying when projected on the 'future'.

And I'm all for traditional gender roles, don't get me wrong. IF THAT IS WHAT S/HE WANTS AND HAS KNOWINGLY CHOSEN! I don't like for it to be required/assumed. Unless there's a good reason and the plot has been developed so the 'world' setup requires that type of thing. Like religious fundamentalists in space or whatever.

Is Le Guin's LHOD part of the syllabus for gender studies classes? It seems like a good choice anyway due to the discussion/thoughts here.