Richard's comments (member since Mar 23, 2009)

Richard's comments from the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club group.

There's an almost bewildering array of Aliens in The Algebraist, some more alien than others. A criticism I have heard levelled at this book is that the Aliens, although wildly varied in appearance and habitat, are rather too akin to us psychologically to be believable.
What do you all think about the Alien characters here, any favourites, any more believable than others, any you think are frankly ridiculous ?

I spent most of November threading my slow way through this rather large book, so that I'd be ready to to join in the discussions in real time with the professional readers in this group. As I therefore appear to be ahead of the pack at the moment I thought I'd kick off with the usual.

So my first impressions, without thinking too deeply about it are :
A little slow to start, suffering from Iain M's usual wordiness, but picking up pace as we got further in.
Interesting set up; liked the idea of the Mercatoria with aHuman and rHumans, with all that that entails.
I found it clever without being intellectual, but overall just good fun, and even funny, with all the ingredients of a good 'Hard' SciFi 'Space Opera' yarn.

Anyone enjoying it yet, or is anyone even considering 'Tossing' it yet ?

Monk wrote: "I could ask for a cover art by Boris Vallejo..."

In that case you might like this site.

Monk wrote: "As long as you are promising me that something will get blown up, I'll crack it open by Monday...."


Monk, things will get blown up at relativistic velocities, also by Anti-Matter and by alien energy rays.
What more could you ask for.

I was very happy with the group's choice on this one. Not only is Banks one of my favourite authors but I hadn't read it and it was sitting on my shelf waiting to be read.
Admittedly it isn't an easy read, takes a bit of effort, but for a bunch of hardcore SciFi readers it should be very doable. If you like Hard SF and Space Opera then this one should be right up your street.
As for the Title, don't worry, what's so scary about a simple 3D coordinate transform.
I really enjoyed it, boils down to a fairly straightforward action adventure, with space battles, aliens and all the usual SciFi stuff. If you like Iain M's wordy clever style then you should like this.

Take a deep breath, and

As She Climbed Across the Table by Jonathan Lethem
The Birth of the People's Republic of Antarctica by John Calvin Batchelor
The Book of Skulls by Robert Silverberg
Broken Angels by Richard K. Morgan
Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds
Colony by Rob Grant
Cosmic Encounter by A. E. Van Vogt
Cosmonaut Keep by Ken Macleod
Critical Threshold by Brian Stableford
Damnation Alley by Roger Zelazny
Destination: Universe! by A. E. Van Vogt
Diamond Dogs by Alastair Reynolds
The Dreaming Jewels by Theodore Sturgeon
Engine City by Ken Macleod
The Engines of God by Jack McDevitt
The Exile Waiting by Vonda N. McIntyre
Forever Peace by Joe Haldeman
The Furies by Keith Roberts
Fuzzy Dice by Paul Di Filippo
Golem 100 by Alfred Bester
The Great Escape by Ian Watson
Grey by Jon Armstrong
Humpty Dumpty: An Oval by Damon Knight
The Ice People by Maggie Gee
Idoru by William Gibson
The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad
The Jagged Orbit by John Brunner
The Jewels of Aptor by Samuel R. Delaney
The Jonah kit by Ian Watson
Kiteworld by Keith Roberts
The Kraken Wakes by John Wyndham
Legacies by Alison Sinclair
Light by M. John Harrison
The Light of Other Days by Arthur C. Clarke
Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy
The Man Who Fell to Earth by Walter Tevis
The Men Inside by Barry N. Malzberg
Mindplayers by Pat Cadigan
Now Wait for Last Year by Philip K. Dick,
Nymphomation by Jeff Noon
Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood
Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle
Queen of Angels by Greg Bear
Redemption Ark by Alastair Reynolds
Remix by Jon Courtenay Grimwood
The Reproductive System by John Thomas Sladek
Salt by Adam Roberts
The Seedling Stars by James Blish
Shiva 3000 by Jan Lars Jensen
The Shrinking Man by Richard Matheson
The Sky Road by Ken MacLeod
Stamping Butterflies by Jon Courtenay Grimwood
Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand by Samuel R.Delany
Stone by Adam Roberts
The Stone Canal by Ken MacLeod
Timequake by Kurt Vonnegut
To Marry Medusa by Theodore Sturgeon
Tower of Glass by Robert Silverberg
V.A.O. by Geoff Ryman
VALIS by Philip K. Dick
A Wreath Of Stars by Bob Shaw

Hope I haven't duplicated any already on the list, if I have, oops sorry.

Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock

Stuart, I like the choice of Arha and Kossil as examples. In my mind those two are the closest to Good and Evil, true opposites, as Le Guin comes. I find all the other characters more ambivalent. Ged we know from the previous story as a good man, but in this context he is a sacrilegious thief. The God King I see as the ruler of a fairly brutal nation, using belief and worship as a tool to increase his power and control, acting in a way almost expected of him, not a nice character, but in my mind no different from vast numbers of rulers throughout history. I can't even decide whether the Old Ones even exist, Kossil should have been destroyed by them for her sacrilege and as you say we only have Ged's word for their power.
Now why, as I can't make up my mind about anyone else, do I see Arha/Tenar as Good and Kossil as Evil.
The difference I see is that the evil acts of Arha were carried out with the full support of all around her, it was expected of her, it was her role within her society, but within herself she knew it was wrong and repented, rebelled against all her training and indoctrination. Kossil was the opposite, she didn't believe in the powers she served, but she carried out her duties for her own ends, the evil acts she carried out were against her own people, against her societies beliefs, done with stealth and secrecy as she knew what she did would be seen as evil by her own people, but she did them anyway to further her own cause.

Am I missing something here, or has The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien been missed off the list?

Viriconium by M. John Harrison
The Once and Future King by T.H. White

Stewart wrote: "Ted wrote: "The Forever War by Joe Haldeman should be added to this list."

I agree, Ted...Great book!!

"

It is a great book, and rightfully on the list. To be found between "Foreigner" and "Foundation".

As quite a few comments in the First Impressions thread concerned the idea of "Good and Evil" I thought I'd try to kick off a discussion about this. So get ready for a really cliched question:

What is Good and Evil?

Specifically, what makes you think some things, people, practices, institutions or nations etc, in this story are Good or Evil.

Is it possible to say that the two are just matters of perspective, a societies zeitgeist, or are they fundamentally and intrinsically different.
Can a thing be truly evil in one historical moment and then almost universally accepted as OK in another.

Very interested in what you guys think.

I certainly intend to read the next 2 very soon, as I'm reading The Earthsea Quartet omnibus, and have enjoyed the first 2. That said I'm also working my way through next month's The Algebraist, and being a slow careful reader taking too long about it. I would like to join in any further discussion but would rather it not be this month.
Having said that, if people do want to carry straight on I can always revisit the discussion in retrospect as I did for A Wizard of Earthsea.

Cindy wrote: "Aaaah ..."

Is that a scream as in "Arrrrr you blockhead" or just "Oh yes, but just think".

I can appreciate both as I rate Le Guin as one of the finest authors in the genre, and still consider The Left Hand of Darkness as one of my favourite books. I freely admit that the failing here is with me, and not the book. I just didn't emotionally connect, and after all the title of this thread is First Impressions. I wasn't being flippant when I said what you quoted, the book deserves thought and maybe one day I can return Le Guin's trust.
I would like to hear your take on the book as the issues are, as you say, complex.

PS. Cindy, I loved the War of the Worlds map you did for all of us, I live in England and found it really useful and interesting. Thanks. Sorry for going off topic.

Hmmmm, I usually really like her stuff, played catch up with A Wizard of Earthsea a few weeks ago and enjoyed it, but this one, I just don't know. I was slightly gratified that my earlier thoughts about Ged's Shadow adversary seemed to hold here also, as the prospect of death in the labyrinth held no sway over him.
I have a horrible sneaking suspicion that my latent chauvinism may be showing in my lack of a connection with Tenar, as I enjoyed relating to Ged in the previous tale. I felt it very difficult to relate to her situation, but was left with a vague feeling of sadness for her plight. Being a fairly new Father, eldest munchkin not quite 3 and a half, my strongest emotions were felt over Tenar's selection, just between me and you I was quite choked up.
As for Good and Evil, well again I'm not so sure. I didn't find Tenar or any character falling squarely into either category, a bit like real life I suppose, but just felt that the point of view was different this time. I didn't even find the Powers that Tenar served that Evil, more sad, selfish, lonely, isolated and of course very old.
So not a bad book, just didn't grab me this time. I think I need to go away and think about subjugation, indoctrination, innocence and a bunch of other stuff before maybe looking again at this one from a more informed or empathic point of view.

Like my namesake I'm also reading this in preparation for The Tombs of Atuan. My reading of Ged's shadow is probably a little more simplistic and less mystical than some. Towards the conclusion of the book I was of the same opinion as Richard, that the shadow was just an aspect of Ged as in the quoted Star Trek episode. After the final confrontation however and with Vetch's insight into what had happened, I changed my mind. I now consider Ged's shadow more as a fear of death given a physical manifestation, and a very real thing which if allowed to consume Ged would allow him to be used by others and allow himself to justify cruel and dark acts. It could be said that a great many so called evil deeds were carried out by very frightened people. That is why I think that when Ged stops running from his shadow and turns to face it, it loses its power over him, and when he finally acknowledges what it is and faces his own death and truly understands it, it then holds no sway over him and can never be used against him, but allows him to love life and light fully. I think that without the Fantasy element of magic and a physical expression of this fear, the whole idea of the shadow of his death and its effects could be seen as philosophy rather than fiction.

Kev wrote: "Its interesting to compare the actual ending to the type of story that "the artilleryman" imagined. If Wells had gone with the artilleryman's idea, he could have spun it out into a trilogy at least..."

The Genocides by Thomas M. Disch is well worth a read if you want an alien invasion story that has mankind outmatched without a simple happy ending. As you can probably guess by the title it isn't one of the most cheerful books I've ever read, but still very good and thought provoking.

I think Wells might have used the Martians technology and methods to underline their inhumanity, especially there use of poison gas. Just a year after the publication of WOW, the Hague Declaration of 1899 outlawed the use of poison or poisonous gasses. I would also see it as a forewarning of later military methods; Wells also wrote a short story called The Land Ironclads that predicted the use of armoured tanks in warfare.

I must admit I think Wells was certainly influenced by the genre, and was probably taking advantage of its popularity for his own ends. The fear of the foreigner could be seen to be recognised by Wells, and gently mocked, when Mrs Elphinstone gives way to panic at the thought of being friendless in a foreign country and to imagine that the French and the Martians might prove very similar.
I wonder if Mrs Elphinstone is a reference to William Elphinstone who, according to a Wikepedia article, led the combined British and Raj forces that were massacred by Afghans in 1842, just a thought.

I liked the ending. In the context of the times I think Wells was doing more than just trying to wrap the story up neatly. The British Empire had been around for a long time and apart from the occasional bloody nose the British people were feeling pretty superior and almost invincible with vast advances not only in technology but also in society. The idea of our superior military and organisational skill just being rudely brushed aside as a lower species must have been an immensely disquieting thought. When you remember that Darwin had only published his almost heretical work less than forty years before, the concept of the race's survival being dependent upon the evolution of our resistance to bacteria was bold and I think entirely intended. The fact that the narrator was without doubt a Christian gentleman with a firm faith was IMO Wells' way of showing his support of Darwinism and Faith at the same time.
It also allows him after knocking the pride out of the British to hold up humanity as still responsible for the victory; "By the toll of a billion deaths man has bought his birthright of the earth, and it is his against all comers ... For neither do men live nor die in vain."