Courtney's comments (member since Dec 14, 2007)

Courtney's comments from the Guilty Pleasures group.

I was about to post "oddly, The Dyke and the Dybbuk was my first LGBT read but I read Rubyfruit Jungle right after" and then I paused and realized that was AFTER I came out.

Before, before, I had read loads, but mostly political or random. First would be either And the Band Played On or a history of the LGBT movement I snagged at a Borders' clearance sale. And then anything by David Sedaris. Unless you count Howl, Junk or Leaves of Grass. Which brings up a whole other set of issues. But mostly generally queer or specifically gay. Didn't really start reading the ladies until after I came out. Now I am a junkie.

Hmmmm . . . I don't think reading in the bathtub is a straight girl thing/myth. Both my P and I adore reading in the bathtub. It does, however, require a little planning and a well situated bathtub. But its cold and rainy outside and a bubble bath with my book and a fresh cup of coffee sounds divine.

1. What are you reading right now?
Where the Girls Are and So You Want to be a Lesbian (circa 1995 cultural survey which is semi-hilarious and WAY out of date).


2. Do you have any idea what you’ll read when you’re done with that?

Ah! A novel I hope. I am in the midst of a project and am reading loads of feminista books. Perhaps The True and Amazing Adventures of the Hunt Sisters] for a book club, although I am really craving some Edith Wharton and would love to read [b:Summer.


3. What magazines do you have in your bathroom right now?

Yeah, I don't do that either. But my family room has stacks of Cooking Light and The New Yorker. The rest we read online


4. What’s the worst thing you were ever forced to read?

Heart of Darkness. Pretty much anything by Conrad makes me feel murderous as a result of boredom and overwhelming misogyny.

5. What’s the one book you always recommend to just about everyone?

Old New York by Edith Wharton.

6. Admit it, the librarians at your library know you on a first name basis, don’t they?

Pretty much, although mostly at my local charity shop.

7. Is there a book you absolutely love, but for some reason, people never think it sounds interesting, or maybe they read it and don’t like it at all?

My Name is Asher Lev.

8. Do you read books while you eat? While you bathe? While you watch movies or TV? While you listen to music? While you’re on the computer? While you’re having sex? While you’re driving?

While I'm having sex? Um, no. I don't even think in English then but certainly while I eat and bathe.

9. When you were little, did other children tease you about your reading habits?

All the freaking time.

10. What’s the last thing you stayed up half the night reading because it was so good you couldn’t put it down?

The Golden Compass by Phillip Pullman

BONUS QUESTION: Do you like reading digital versions of books?

Not really. My eyes are already overwhelmed with all the work I do on my laptop and I SO PREFER the feel of a book in my hands

Oddly. John Bowen's The Girls probably has my favorite lesbian couple thus far. Charming and British and by far the most real (characters AND couple) of all I have read. Plus, they named their baby Butch, which I continue to find a viable name for my yet-to-be-desired, late-in-life, miracle-of-science child.

Then there is always Ruth and Idgie . . .

Thank you Robin! I thought I had tried that before, but must have missed the Aqua Superstore. I am definitely going to get one. Will go so well with all the violets in my front yard (until the heat gets them, of course!)

And thank you for the link to your blog, I have it bookmarked and cannot wait to read it. I am so inspired by everyone in this discussion.

Happy belated anniversary to Heather and Min and h happy almost anniversary to Lynne and her partner!

And I have to say, if anyone HASN'T read Heather's blog, I suggest you open a new webpage and read away. It was one of the best, most incisive rants I have read in a LONG time and perfectly encapsulates my feelings on the topic. So I bookmarked it. And the next time anyone but a stranger (all my elderly grandparents have passed) pulls out the friend, I am emailing the link.

And amen to me-ness and not conforming to the dominant lesbian paradigm, be it femme, butch, or anything in between. I think I will struggle with this, being late to the party and all, but generally, Courtney wins and my shoulder length, multi-color, curly haired, girly but tough self soldiers on.

We just got back from Milwaukee for their Pride and the thing that struck me the strongest was how different everyone was. It was like a wash of cool water on a hot day and SO unlike my daily forays in hetero-land. Yes, there were many lesbians sporting the sporty girl look, but there were plenty of women who looked like my Mom used to (sort of a mix between Laura Ashley, Emily Saliers and Doris Day), girls like me with pigtails and pink hats (AND my fabulous specially made DOB shirt!!), girls working the L Word look (of various characters) and gay men in all shapes, sizes and ages. Moreover, there was more kindness, openness and general, hey I'm so glad you are here from everyone that it was like a giant hug. So, while we have all these dominant pressures amongst ourselves, its pretty freaking cool to see a whole slew of us free to be ourselves notwithstanding the pressure.

Does anyone know where I can find a rainbow doormat for outside? It seems like the cheeriest thing in the world to me and it has been suggested that my current "Come Back With a Warrant" mat doesn't set the right tone. :)

I came back to these posts this morning and Lynne, I have to say that your description:

But my partner is *constantly* having to come out, again and again, every time she meets someone knew. And not just in the "release" way I "come out", but in the full-blown "No, I'm actually gay. No, really. No, I have always been. Well, yes I dated men for awhile, but it wasn't right for me. I know I don't look gay but.." and so on. I *never* have to do all that! And I can understand why that would be very frustrating, and even wearying, to deal with. I can also understand the need for obvious signs and symbols to tag one's self with, to assist with the "pre-outing" us folks who are "obviously" gay get naturally :)

is making me cry. It is so exactly me and honestly, I have spent this huge amount of time pondering my sexual orientation (in a way my P hasn't in years) because I find this process so exhausting and it makes me question every thing. Funny how, I know myself but because I look girly and cannot, no matter how much I might want to cut my hair or change my look (which I don't, I like how I look) appear obviously gay, I question myself. Hence the small rainbow sticker, the small equality sign and the penchant for symbols that bolster my strength.

And otherwise, yes, everything else you said was pitch perfect

Scott -- your point is completely well-taken. The meaning, if I may be so bold, behind my reference to an "Uncle Tom Lesbian," which I really meant as an aside about something I shared with my P after a really frustrating lunch, has nothing to do with the closet. This woman is quite out as is her fiance/partner and they are pretty well known about town as a fabulous lesbian couple.

I only used the term because I had recently adopted it in a very personal conversation with my P and meant to use it to illustrate a point, which was my cynicism over the hetero view of good gay and bad gay. Why I referred to her that way is another matter entirely and perhaps too personal to share. Suffice it to say, I used the term in a very personal way to my partner to point out one woman's extreme hypocrisy.

More on this later, must get some oxygen and have a nice walk with my P. But please do not think I am trying to tell anyone how to live her life.

Heather, I LOVE that you included a link to your rant in your post. GENIUS! Off to read and then to run new kitten we rescued from the conservation trail to the vet. We hope she is a she and if so her name will be Idgie Reepacheep. If she's a boy (which will be chaos because we have two young boys already) her name will be Ziegfeld Reepacheep. But she pretty much responds to Idgie. So we may have some feline gender issues to address in the future.

Ach! Must run. But I have made another important victory by getting my vet (its a cat only clinic) to admit that 4 out of 5 cats prefer lesbians. (I maintain that the other 1/5 prefer gay men, but I suspect some cats do love their straight owners, lol).

I LOVE this conversation.

Lynne, you said:

But (and you, of course, already know this) we have to get what we can, because truly *lives* are at stake, since there are still people killing themselves and being killed for being gay. We have to take what we can get and continue struggling for more!

And it hit me in the stomach because, for me, this is a big reason why I am so stridently out. I am not a woman who is tagged as obviously gay (which, I admit, kind of bums me out sometimes and results in me acquiring fun political shirts). I have been extraordinarily lucky to have extremely supportive and accepting friends and family.

My Dad took literally 17 seconds to grasp it, accept it and completely and utterly support me. My darling sister comes up with witty comebacks when I express extreme frustration at my doctor who, despite the fact that I have created a box marked partner on the intake sheet, put all of my P's information as my emergency contact, and told him three times I am gay, tells me we should do a pregnancy test just to be sure that isn't causing my stomach pain (ACH!). Her response: "My wife and I have been trying and trying, but I still don't seem to be pregnant."

But other than "don't be too gay" subtext my profession loves, it is easy for me to be out.
As a result, I feel it is my absolute moral obligation to be myself. To be out. At work. At play. At home. To introduce my P as my partner (and correct people when they say roommate or friend -- which irritates me to death).

And by god, to stick the HRC magnet and the little rainbow decal on my car even though I live in the suburbs in a neighborhood filled with 80 year olds and young families with kids(but my neighbors, even clearly knowing, still let/are thrilled to send their little boys over to dig in my garden and ask about my partner, so I think we have some progress!)

Given the support I have in all the other areas of my life, work was (and will be again) the place where I really try to be as myself as possible, no matter how uncomfortable it makes people (because I am not immediately identifiable and so there is often lots of surprise involved). And generally I get tolerance, albeit grudgingly. But as Robin so perfectly said:

Personally, I'd take tolerance over hatred, but who wants to be tolerated? You tolerate something you would rather not deal with because you believe it's going to end. I'll tolerate tolerance because I'm expecting it to end.

So I am going to be just a little teensy bit cynical about certain acquaintances'/colleagues' reaction to me or a little bit irritated when my former co-workers are more comfortable with the uncle tom lesbian than me. (which is SUCH a bratty thing to say, but I plead quitting smoking and years of vexatious lunches and professional encounters).

On the whole, I have had so many positive experiences being out, so many people from whom I expected tolerance and found acceptance that even my cynicism washes away. But more than that, I think being fully out is an act of personal and political courage and if one can/has the ability to do it a gift to a hopefully improving world.

Ach! I hope this makes sense. Sorry for the length!!

I am in 99% agreement with everything Lynn, Robin and Lillian say. I feel that being out (in fact quite out) is both a personal and political decision for me and think it is REALLY important, for me, to be as open and honest about my sex o as possible.

But there is this 1% of me that thinks, sure, they may slightly change their mind because of me, but in the end, they will think, well, Courtney is a "Good" lesbian, not like the others who are . . . . much like people used to (and still do) categorize African-Americans into good and "them." In a fit of anger the other day, I referred to a former co-worker (only to my P, of course) as an "uncle tom lesbian" but I wonder if this parallel even works, but I sometimes fear it is out there.

Sort of like, well, fine, you like girls, but as long as you look, act, behave and generally ARE like us you are ok. But those lesbians in Massachusetts are different. Ellen is ok, but kd lang is "too gay."

Does this make sense? I am still working through it in my mind, so it may be jumbled. Plus I just quit smoking and I swear, not smoking has taken 25% of my brain functions with it.

I love the discussion of "wasting the seed" as murder -- as well as the implications of one man taking the "female" role as the impetus behind the Christian Bible's ban on homosexuality. Especially when Robin said, "Small wonder that the Old Testament said nothing about female-female activity; no one (that is, no men, for men were people) cared about women at all."

I mean, I am sure if Ruth and Esther were actually "caught" in the act, they would have been stoned or some such thing, but otherwise, as long as they were behaving like appropriately dominated chattel, their sexuality was really irrelevant. Which brings up the theme of lesbians as historically invisible, but that's an entirely different topic.

This conversation is wonderful. One of the most oft-cited sources against homosexuality in the New Testament is Paul in Romans. I am consistently surprised to hear Christians citing Paul as evidence of the bible's ban against homosexuality because mere paragraphs away, Paul argues against heterosexual marriage or any relationship that interferes with preparing for Jesus' return. And don't get me started on Deuteronomy. I have yet to meet a Christian who kept kosher or followed half of the proscriptions the way many conservative and orthodox Jews do. Pork is no longer verboten, but homosexuality still is.

I was reading the recent California Supreme Court case overturning the state's ban on gay marriage and thought the court dealt nicely with these issues. Like Lawrence v. Texas and Brown v. Board of Education, the opinion gives me goosebumps.

Has anyone had any success discussing these issues with any textual literalists? I had debates about them a few years ago in law school, but find my circle is almost entirely full of those who have drunk the kool-aid and believe either in a less literal interpretation of the bible (like my fabulous little sis who is a very strong believer but also the biggest supporter of me and my relationship) or have eschewed Christianity entirely.

It would be an interesting conversation, especially if one could manage to have it without too much emotional investment or need to win every point. I don't think I could manage it. . .

Ok. I am desperate for some good recommendations for well-written, modern lesbian fiction/essays. Less romance (although I enjoy one immensely and therefore have HUGE stack) and more literature. I could even suffer YET another BAD ending (ala everything but The Book of Salt written before 1995), if the writing was wonderful.

Basically, I am looking for a lesbian Maupin or Gurganus (whether he is or isn't, I am not 100% positive, but I loved Plays Well With Others) or at this point I would gladly take Sedaris. Something well-written, thoughtful and at times sassy and fun and relevant.

Could someone PLEASE help a girl out? There are only so many times one can read Rubyfruit Jungle before thinking that trying a new author once in awhile might be ok?