Daybo's comments (member since Oct 31, 2008)

Daybo's comments from the Goodreads Feedback group.

Please don't make it so the message/link can be sent to more than 15 people at a time or I am sure we will get spam.

I think its easy to see the ones that were paid for. If you click the link and it takes you to a review that has a slide show on it then that is part of the $119 package and I can't see why he'd give that away for free or why he would go to that much trouble. Similarly with the author reviews which are also part of a package. If its a review plain and simple it might be a free one but otherwise it obviously isn't.

Why has Norm removed his original question that he posted when he started this thread?

From Norm's site:
Norm's Priority, Fast Track & Quick Review Service not only provides you with a review of your book within 15 business days of receipt of your book, but also some extensive exposure across the web resulting in thousands of people reading the review. Moreover, receiving a professional review of your book lends credibility to the title and yourself as an author. (This is from the $119 review package).


I think this thread has brought out plenty of credibility issues about the objectiveness of the reviews being posted and whether or not Goodreads is an extension of Norm's marketing efforts. Deleting his own initial comment is just part of it.

I don't believe a word of 99% free reviews. (I took Norm's meaning of 'complimentary' to mean free but it could equally mean positive). Every review I just looked at from Norm's booklist was linked to his site and the overwhelming majority had either an author interview or a slide show (most had slide shows). Same thing for the books from his most popular and featured-type lists on his site had either a slide show or an interview as well. Every single review was positive - complimentary, yes, unpaid-for I shouldn't think so, this is what Norm does for his money. This doesn't sound like free, objective reviews at all.

I like Goodreads so much because it is individuals giving their own free and unbiased by any commercial interest opinions. It is spoiled by the efforts of some users, or perhaps only Norm and W.H., to use Goodreads as free advertising for their own interests - self-promotion, selling reviews and commission from Amazon.

You don't think this is another of Norm's marketing plans? (Discussion: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1003...) All his book reviews are from his site where, for a $119 he will guarantee to review your book and promote it all over the internet within 15 days (if you don't pay he might still review it, but it could take up to six months, he says) and he says, unless you tell people, no-one will know you paid for the review. He doesn't post his reviews on Goodreads, just links to his website. I consider the whole of Norm's operation to be subverting what Goodreads is about - genuine reviews of books by booklovers into a commercial opportunity to sell reviews and Goodreads being one of Norm's marketplaces.

This wanting to general message everyone might be an occasion of mass spam to Norm's 1000+ friends - or am I too cynical?

What if I want to remain signed in to Facebook when I sign out of Goodreads? If I then sign back into Facebook will I be automatically signed in again to Goodreads. In other words if I once enable Facebook Connect, does it mean the accounts are linked to the extent that they can't be used independently? As of now I haven't linked Goodreads to Facebook but was thinking of doing so.

I hope it gets fixed soon. It spoils reading reviews.

Norm is not just still up and running - there's another paid-for review link up on his profile today. *Sigh*.

I'd like to know Otis' opinion on this and what, if anything, is going to be done to existing spam ie. Norm's.

Abigail I seem to remember you making at least one very long and very harsh comment to a reviewer whose review you didn't like.

I didn't notice those but those are just total spam.

rivka wrote: "Daybo, I don't think anything about those "books" -- they're gone.

I wonder why you're so sure that Pinchhitter, Eltigrebooks, and tinytoesbooks are connected to Norm? If they are, he did a specta..."

The Pinchhitter, Eltigre and tinytoes books were the fake books added by Norm because they were on his Read shelf. Since they weren't actually books but clickable site links, I see no reason that Norm would have created fake book pages for them if he wasn't connected with them. Pinchhitter at least is one of the paid review authors Norm features anyway. Since the books have been removed, either by Norm or a Librarian I presume, what the connection is between Norm and those strange names is a moot point now.

SF SQRL I don't agree, sadly (I wish I did) that people can usually assess the value of a review for themselves which is why I feel so strongly about the Norm paid reviews links on GR. Its all to do with environment. If the environment in which the review is published is known to be an honest one, such as GR, then there is no reason to presume that the reviews are less than the genuine and are not just straight commercial advertising (SPAM).

I don't know whether or not Amazon is perceived as a genuine review site or not. I do know that until I started seeing on Goodreads discussion about the fake reviews on Amazon I had always thought it was straight myself, but that might be my naivety and ignorance and not generally shared. People like Norm though, a top 500 Amazon reviewer who guarantees to get the reviews people pay him to write on Amazon obviously add to my knowledge that it is a site whose reviews are not to be taken seriously, as you put it. But why should it be any different on Goodreads - same reviewer, same reviews, it taints Goodreads.

He isn't advertising positive reviews but all the reviews are positive. Norm is all about marketing obviously, nothing wrong in that, we all have to make a living, but how many sales do you think he would get if the paid-for reviews weren't positive? It is actually a marketing tool to say that the reviews will be unbiased because he has a reputation as a reviewer. Reputation is the key word and helps dispel cognitive dissonance by the purchaser of the review. If an author is buying a review and sees that 25% equivalent to GR 3 star or even 4 star, that is going to impact on sales of the review/interview package. An author is going to want to pay for positive feedback he can indeed use (as suggested in the advertising) for marketing purposes.

I checked many paid-for reviews on Norm's site and everyone has a slide-show, interview and positive review, not one was negative or critical.

This is going to be long, sorry, but I feel strongly that GR reviews should be trustworthy and the cynical exploitation of GR as just another marketing resource is SPAM.

"Norm's Priority, Fast Track & Quick Review Service not only provides you with a review of your book within 15 business days of receipt of your book, but also some extensive exposure across the web resulting in thousands of people reading the review. Moreover, receiving a professional review of your book lends credibility to the title and yourself as an author. ...
The review will also be cross linked to an E- INTERVIEW with the author. Author interviews that accompany a book review can be very powerful. Just give it some thought. Readers who have just completed reading a review now have the opportunity to read what makes the author tick. The author is no longer anonymous and as a result the reader can now become more involved with the narrative or a non-fiction exposé. The interview will also be included in Amazon`s Amapedia...."

(And American Chronicle family of 21 online news magazines links to: Amapedia (Amazon's Blog), Twitter, Delicious, Norm's Facebook Page, Authorsden, Digg, Goodreads etc).

The payment also includes a slide show of the author and his book.


This is a good marketing tool for $119.00. But its only good if the review is good. This (long, sorry) quote is an advertisement and no one is going to buy it if the review is likely to be crap, are they? The review is promised within 15 days of receipt of the money.

(http://www.bookpleasures.com/Lore2/idx/6...)

Of course, if you want the book reviewed without payment it will take a leeetle longer:

"It generally takes about 2-3 months to have a book reviewed, however, there are times when I have a very huge backlog of books and the review may even take as long as 5-6 months." Not much good for the marketing effort of a new book really.

I clicked on 20 random reviews from Norm's read shelf (http://www.bookpleasures.com/Lore2/idx/6...) and every single one of them had a slideshow. The slideshows were only available to the authors paying $119, ergo all of these interviews were paid for and then Goodreads used as a marketing To promote them. This is a cynical use of Goodreads much the same as of Amazon (of which Norm is a top500 reviewer, no surprise).

Otis you still think this is fair? Where is the value of these reviews for GR users?

And to Rivka - what do the Librarians think of such books as "Kelly K. Damron About The Author" by Tinytoes, "John H Manhold - Author of El Tigre - El Tigre's Latest Review is in..." and "Dean's book is called Pinch Hitter". These book titles have been created by Norm for the sole purpose of posting links. There are no books by those names.

This GR member, Norm Goldman, http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/74009... does many reviews but publishes none of them on GR only has a link to his reviews and author interviews on his site. On his site he sells reviews/interviews for $119 and guarantees that the review/interview will be published on many sites and linked to on many more (including Goodreads). As he says buying a priority interview/review from him is a good marketing tool.

But can any of us trust that the review is a genuine one, or a positive one because he is selling reviews and if he wrote negative ones he wouldn't be selling many as 'powerful marketing tool(s)'.

I think this is a sleazy use of Goodreads as his own marketing tool and not at all in keeping with the idea of genuine, thoughtful reviews by readers. Does anyone agree with me or am I out on a limb on this one?

Excellent idea.

I would like to see a literary prize list. I don't mind authors rating themselves - they put the effort into writing it so they must at least say it was a good book.