Kathryn’s review of Ender's Game (Ender's Saga, #1) > Likes and Comments

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message 1: by Logan (new)

Logan Card is a hard line Mormon, and old school. Believes in the power of the white race, believes the Mormon tales about the good white vs evil dark skinned brothers, which in their day were a justification for killing indigenous people. I hate his writing and his personal politics.

message 2: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn OMG. I had no clue but I should have. His writing was setting off red flags in my subconscious. Rather sneaky. What an A-hole. If he has a message, he should just spell it out. There is no way I am supporting such a writer.

The Wikipedia God says that Card is a board member of The National Organization for Marriage, an organization that I am strongly against. Thanks for the info, I really do appreciate it. And this author is off of my reading list.

message 3: by Shanon (new)

Shanon Coming from a Mormon - I've never heard of a Mormon tale of good white vs. evil dark skinned brothers. There are bad apples in every religion and organization. It doesn't have anything to do with being "hard core Mormon" or being Mormon at all.

Sorry, had to say something. Judging from Kathryn's reactions to the book I'd have MANY issues with this book as well. Thanks for the great review Kathryn.

message 4: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn I understand Shanon and yes, I'm pretty sure that you would also dislike this book.

Maybe it's a good thing I did not know about Card's beliefs beforehand because I was able to read the book while unbiased. It just proves the point more.

message 5: by Logan (new)

Logan Come on, that's a principle of your religion. Nephites vs Lamanites, which when placed in historical context is the story of Westward Invasion/ Manifest Destiny and at the time of writing, a justification for the slaughter of indigenous people.

Mormon missionaries seek Indian converts by claiming that the book of Mormon tells about their ancestors. The introduction describes the Lamanites in this fantasy story as “the principal ancestors of the
American Indians.” (Also D&C 3:18-20; 19:27; 28:8; 32:2-3; 54:8; & 57).

Joseph Smith felt contempt for dark skin (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 5, pp.218-219; The Way to Perfection, pp.110-111). To him Indians were a “dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of
idleness and all manner of abominations” (book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 12:23). The book of Mormon is a story about good white guys, bad dark guys and their changing skin colors through conversions. Native peoples are described as the evil, filthy, shiftless, degenerate savages who exterminated all of the whites, except for Moroni. The white race is described as being delightsome, beautiful, and exceedingly fair, even as
being like Jesus in 3 Nephi 19:30. This is not the true Jesus of the Bible, but the blue-eyed German-looking imposter of Mormonism.

More recently, the only Indian serving on the General Authority in the LDS church exposed the continuation of this vile racism! George P. Lee, a Navajo warned, “You are slowly causing a…spiritual slaughter” promoting “white supremacy.” (The Provo Daily Herald, Sep. 3, 1989)

And no worries, Shanon. I find every religion just as preposterous as yours. Anything that tells us to disrespect the earth, to disrespect each other and find ways to keep each other disenfranchised, any thing that supports hegemony instead of equality, that tells me to listen to a master instead of the good of my heart is utter bullshit.

message 6: by Shanon (new)

Shanon Nice

There is no way I'm going to turn GoodReads into a platform to debate religion. I enjoy my time and friendships here too much to fight with anyone about my beliefs. I won't convince you of anything by continuing such a debate and you won't convince me.

Quotes can be mis-quoted and taken out of context. I can find things to cite just as easily and we'd have a very healthy debate going. But when it comes to religion it really never goes anywhere - does it? Just hurt feelings and lost friendships.

If you want to pick a different topic to debate I'm sure we could have a lot of fun though! I do enjoy a good debate every now and then. :)

message 7: by Logan (new)


Mr. Card writes rubbish that is informed by his religious views, and uses the proceeds to fund religious organizations that mess/ed with the civil rights of all Californians, changed our constitution, and violates church/state separations. And so does your little Twilight writer. These are facts, not really debatable.

message 8: by Shanon (new)

Shanon Logan, I don't know you beyond your interactions with Kathryn that come up on my home page and the reviews on books you I have read. But if I'm reading the tones of your posts right you are very angry and feel very strongly on this topic. I apologize I mentioned something before. I did not mean to cause you such anger.

I value Goodreads for the simple fact I can find people with similar reading interests. Which, by the way you and I have VERY similar ratings and I'll be looking at your 5 star ratings for some good recommendations for me based on our 95% similarity rate. Let's leave this topic alone - it's explosive.

message 9: by Logan (new)

Logan Very well.

message 10: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn Hey guys, I'm finding out who my friends are! I was dropped by one person who does not agree with me. I say good riddance if they can't agree to disagree. I think both of you make excellent points and I just wanted to say that I value being friends with both of you. And the fiestiness! I love the fiestiness!

message 11: by Shanon (new)

Shanon Seriously! Someone dropped you as a friend because you didn't like a book for whatever reasons? All I can do is roll my eyes at that. Maybe I should go check my friend list to see if I was dropped by anyone... Might be a good way to clean out the ol' friends list without the guilt of removing people myself.

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books) I got dropped as a friend because I had too many books on my shelf. PEOPLE ARE STRANGE. It's no biggie. Nice to have genuine GR friends and not just fair weather ones.

message 13: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn Exactly!

I think I was dropped because I do not share that persons religious/political views. Whatever, my views tend to not mesh with most people but I'm ok with that. :)

message 14: by new_user (last edited Sep 28, 2009 12:40PM) (new)

new_user Huh. That's a bit odd. The only time I delete friends is when I never interact with them, usually because they're not very active on GR or our interests never cross, etc. Although there was this one very bigoted guy whose bigoted comments I kept seeing on my update feed until I was ready to scream.

message 15: by Logan (new)

Logan That's messed up.
Don't worry, I'm not dropping anyone. *__o

message 16: by Nancy (new)

Nancy I didn't like Ender's Game at all and didn't know much about Card's background when I read it.

Do people actually explain why they drop friends? I just quietly drop them, because of lack of common interests, lack of activity, or I never interact with them.

People drop me all the time - fine, it saved me the trouble. But it bothered me when I lost a few "top" friends for no apparent reason.

Right now I'm very close to 200 friends. A manageable list, but my e-mails get unwieldy at times. I honestly don't know how people manage many hundreds of friends.

message 17: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn I don't think people generally explain why they drop friends. I commented about dropping someone once (no names) because I thought nearly all of their ratings/reviews were too negative. I do not mind negativity (sometimes I thrive on it), but that person never seemed to enjoy a single book, at least not when we were friends.

I tend to go through my friends list every few months and delete people I have not interacted with.

message 18: by Joe (last edited Apr 10, 2011 12:05AM) (new)

Joe Campbell I managed to get most of the way through 'Ender's Game' but I have not yet been able to get myself to finish it. Almost everything in the tale seemed to me to be incredibly simplistic and entirely implausible. I am amazed that it received any major awards at all. However, that being said, I do think that the author managed to foretell some aspects of gaming and on-line computing.

message 19: by DJ (new)

DJ Logan, you are attempting to come off as intelligent and educated, but you're only success so far is in showing us that you're a much larger bigot than you believe Card to be. Can't you see that you're spreading the same poison you're ironically - and hypocritically, condemning him for?

Many people not unlike yourself revel in hating members of a certain race or religion, happily labeling them and refusing to see them as people. They openly disregard their accomplishments, foolishly assuming that what they wrongfully perceive as bad trees MUST in turn produce bad fruit. Hitler did this and look where it got him?

You're creating more of the thing you claim to hate - Break the cycle man.

Despite your lack of a review on the book, I assume you actually read the thing. I recommend you read it again, since this very topic is one of the main themes.

message 20: by Logan (new)

Logan Rowe I am a mormon. And I don't hate people because of their skin color.... No mormons should, it is NOT in line with our beliefs...
A lot of what you claimed about the Book of Mormon is false, Logan, it is not a story about "manifest destiny" and oppressing indigenous people. You seem to have done what you think we do, judging people based off their skin... You thought that since the dark-skinned people were, well, dark skinned, they were indigenous to America and that the white people weren't. Both people, in the book of mormon, are natives to america, they are descendants of the first people that came there. The Nephites didn't sale over there and start oppressing the poor Lamanites because they were having a bad day. Both peoples were descendants of the people that first sailed there, and the Lamanites had dark colored skin because Laman and Lemuel, Nephi's brothers, rebelled against god and so Laman, Lemuel, and their posterity were cursed with dark skin. Are we clear? Also, the Nephites are not always made out to be perfect and angelic, and the Lamanites are not always evil and horrible. Both groups throughout the Book of Mormon change at various times depending on their ACTIONS, not their skin color.

message 21: by Yo (new)

Yo Yo cat reviews yo

message 22: by Logan (new)

Logan Logan Rowe. Please examine the subtext of what it means to "be cursed with dark skin" Now put it into historical context. Look past your indoctrination, Logan Rowe.

Much Love-

Logan Berrian

message 23: by Logan (new)

Logan And Katherine, come back.

message 24: by William (new)

William Graphic depiction of child abuse and hatred. Sick America.

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